Topic: Blind Lemon Jefferson's Guitar Style--Queries and Tips

[rvidales]

Hi everybody,

I'm researching alternate tunings in Texas country blues music and was wondering what selections from Blind Lemon Jefferson's catalogue make the cut. Anybody have suggestions that include the song and particular tuning?

Thanks!

[frankie]

It's safe to say that Lemon appears to have been a standard tuning kind of guy. The two takes of Jack O' Diamonds, played with a bottleneck or knife, are both possibilities for Spanish tuning but since it's basically only a melody, it's difficult to say with complete confidence in what tuning he's playing for that one. My personal opinion is that he's probably tuned to Spanish.

I had this table posted in my website which is having some issues at the moment, so I'll repost it here. I think there are a couple of alternate takes missing, but all of those are also in standard tuning.

Volume	Track	Title	Key	Location	Month	Year	Pitch
1	01	I Want to Be Like Jesus in My Heart	C	Chicago	December	1925	-1
1	02	All I Want Is That Pure Religion	E	Chicago	December	1925	-1
1	03	Got the Blues	G	Chicago	March	1926	-1
1	04	Long Lonesome Blues	A	Chicago	March	1926	-1
1	05	Booster Blues	E	Chicago	March	1926	-1
1	06	Dry Southern Blues	C	Chicago	March	1926	-1
1	07	Black Horse Blues	C	Chicago	April	1926	0
1	08	Corinna Blues	C	Chicago	April	1926	0
1	09	Got the Blues	G	Chicago	May	1926	0
1	10	Long Lonesome Blues	A	Chicago	May	1926	0
1	11	Jack O''Diamond Blues	Spanish (G)	Chicago	May	1926	0
1	12	Jack O''Diamond Blues	Spanish (G)	Chicago	May	1926	0
1	13	Chock House Blues	C	Chicago	May	1926	0
1	14	Beggin'' Back	C	Chicago	August	1926	+3
1	15	Old Rounders Blues	C	Chicago	August	1926	+1
1	16	Stocking Feet Blues	A	Chicago	November	1926	-1
1	17	That Black Snake Moan	C	Chicago	November	1926	-2
1	18	Wartime Blues	E	Chicago	November	1926	-1
1	19	Broke and Hungry	G	Chicago	November	1926	-1
1	20	Shuckin'' Sugar Blues	A	Chicago	November	1926	-3
1	21	Booger Rooger Blues	C	Chicago	December	1926	-1
1	22	Rabbit Foot Blues	A	Chicago	December	1926	-1
1	23	Bad Luck Blues	C	Chicago	December	1926	+1
2	01	Black Snake Moan	C	Atlanta	March	1927	-2
2	02	Match Box Blues	A	Atlanta	March	1927	-1
2	03	Easy Rider Blues	G	Chicago	April	1927	0
2	04	Match Box Blues	A	Chicago	April	1927	0
2	05	Match Box Blues	A	Chicago	April	1927	+1
2	06	Rising High Water Blues	No Guitar (C)	Chicago	May	1927	0
2	07	Weary Dogs Blues	C	Chicago	May	1927	+1
2	08	Right of Way Blues	E	Chicago	May	1927	+1
2	09	Teddy Bear Blues	No Guitar (F)	Chicago	June	1927	0
2	10	Black Snake Dream Blues	No Guitar (G)	Chicago	June	1927	0
2	11	Hot Dogs	C	Chicago	June	1927	+1
2	12	He Arose from the Dead	C	Chicago	June	1927	+1
2	13	Struck Sorrow Blues	A	Chicago	September	1927	-1
2	14	Rambler Blues	G	Chicago	September	1927	0
2	15	Chinch Bug Blues	C	Chicago	October	1927	0
2	16	Deceitful Brownskin Blues	G	Chicago	October	1927	+1
2	17	Sunshine Special	C	Chicago	October	1927	+1
2	18	Gone Dead on You Blues	A	Chicago	October	1927	+1
2	19	Where Shall I Be?	E	Chicago	October	1927	+1
2	20	See That My Grave''s Kept Clean	E	Chicago	October	1927	+1
2	21	One Dime Blues	E	Chicago	October	1927	+1
2	22	Lonesome House Blues	C	Chicago	October	1927	+1
3	01	Blind Lemon''s Penitentiary Blues	C	Chicago	February	1928	-1
3	02	''Lectric Chair Blues	E	Chicago	February	1928	0
3	03	See That My Grave Is Kept Clean	E	Chicago	February	1928	0
3	04	Lemon''s Worried Blues	A	Chicago	February	1928	0
3	05	Mean Jumper Blues	C	Chicago	February	1928	0
3	06	Balky Mule Blues	A	Chicago	February	1928	0
3	07	Change My Luck Blues	C	Chicago	February	1928	0
3	08	Prison Cell Blues	E	Chicago	February	1928	0
3	09	Lemon''s Cannonball Moan	A	Chicago	March	1928	+1
3	10	Long Lastin'' Lovin''	A	Chicago	March	1928	0
3	11	Piney Woods Money Mama	E	Chicago	March	1928	0
3	12	Low Down Mojo Blues	E	Chicago	June	1928	+1
3	13	Competition Bed Blues	C	Chicago	July	1928	-1
3	14	Lock Step Blues	C	Chicago	July	1928	0
3	15	Hangman''s Blues	G	Chicago	July	1928	0
3	16	Sad News Blues	C	Chicago	July	1928	0
3	17	How Long How Long	C	Chicago	July	1928	+1
3	18	Christmas Eve Blues	C	Chicago	August	1928	+1
3	19	Happy New Year Blues	C	Chicago	August	1928	+1
3	20	Maltese Cat Blues	C	Chicago	August	1928	+1
3	21	D B Blues	E	Chicago	August	1928	-1
4	01	Eagle Eyed Mama	A	Chicago	January	1929	-1
4	02	Dynamite Blues	C	Chicago	January	1929	-1
4	03	Disgusted Blues	C	Chicago	January	1929	-1
4	04	Competition Bed Blues	C	Chicago	January	1929	-1
4	05	Sad New Blues	C	Chicago	January	1929	-1
4	06	Peach Orchard Mama	A	Chicago	March	1929	-1
4	07	Oil Well Blues	E	Chicago	March	1929	0
4	08	Tin Cup Blues	C	Chicago	March	1929	0
4	09	Big Night Blues	A	Chicago	March	1929	0
4	10	Empty House Blues	C	Chicago	March	1929	-1
4	11	Saturday Night Spender Blues	E	Chicago	March	1929	-1
4	12	That Black Snake Moan No. 2	C	Chicago	March	1929	-1
4	13	Bed Springs Blues	A	Richmond	September	1929	-1
4	14	Yo Yo Blues	E	Richmond	September	1929	0
4	15	Mosquito Moan	C	Richmond	September	1929	-1
4	16	Southern Woman Blues	A	Richmond	September	1929	-2
4	17	Bakershop Blues	C	Richmond	September	1929	-2
4	18	Pneumonia Blues	E	Richmond	September	1929	-2
4	19	Long Distance Moan	C	Richmond	September	1929	-2
4	20	That Crawlin'' Baby Blues	G	Richmond	September	1929	-2
4	21	Fence Breakin'' Yellin'' Blues	C	Richmond	September	1929	-2
4	22	Cat Man Blues	A	Richmond	September	1929	-2
4	23	The Cheaters Spell	E	Richmond	September	1929	-2
4	24	Bootin'' Me ''Bout	C	Richmond	September	1929	-2

[rvidales]

Wow this is great. Quite a list.

Yeah I'm finding that he played most of his songs in standard tuning. However, on a few of them I've been able to discern some tunings based on how low he tuned his bottom bass string. "Rabbit Foot Blues," "Got the Blues," and "Peach Orchard Mama" all seem to have a different tuning. However, the nature of his recordings aren't very conducive for transcribing. 

Thanks for this list. Definitely helps!

[banjochris]

Yeah I'm finding that he played most of his songs in standard tuning. However, on a few of them I've been able to discern some tunings based on how low he tuned his bottom bass string. "Rabbit Foot Blues," "Got the Blues," and "Peach Orchard Mama" all seem to have a different tuning. However, the nature of his recordings aren't very conducive for transcribing. 

As you can see from Frankie's list, Lemon's pitches could vary quite a lot, i.e. he tuned flat or sharp of standard pitch. All the tunes you mention are in standard, though. "Got the Blues" is in G and the other two in A.
Chris

[frankie]

Lemon's pitches could vary quite a lot, i.e. he tuned flat or sharp of standard pitch. All the tunes you mention are in standard, though. "Got the Blues" is in G and the other two in A.

Exactly - and rvidales, one thing to remember is that pitch alone isn't a particularly good indicator of tuning...  what you're listening for is the relative relationships between the strings, independent of pitch. In my way of thinking, the following combinations of pitches on a guitar all qualify as "standard tuning":

E A D G B E
D G C F A D
F Bflat Eflat Aflat C F
Csharp Fsharp B E Gsharp Csharp
G C F Bflat D G

[Johnm]

I like Robert Belfour's term for standard tuning:  "Natural".  And for him, "Natural" was usually pitched with the sixth string at about C# or so.  The whole issue of re-tuning away from standard pitch, whether you're talking about standard tuning, Spanish, Vestapol, or whatever, has to do with putting the position/tuning you wish to play in in a good singing key for your voice.  As Frank notes, the pitch at which a rendition sounds has little to do with the position which is used to play a song.
All best,
Johnm

[cblanch]

Hi Frankie. I'm a very recent member of this quite incredible site and this is my first attempt at trying to contribute something of possible use.

Looking at your table of keys, both in terms of chord shapes used and absolute pitches in reference to A 440, it strikes me that if I was BLJ, working the streets playing and singing a variety of material pitched to suit my voice, I'd probably keep my guitar tuned to 'standard tuning', 3 frets flat of concert pitch (C sharp, F sharp, B, E, G sharp, C sharp) and use a capo to raise the pitch of my guitar accompaniment (played out of C, G, A or E 'shapes') to match the absolute pitch I found most comfortable to sing each particular song in. I probably wouldn't be performing "Jack O' Diamonds", hustling dimes on a street corner.

Anyone who's worked the streets, knows you really have to work to keep a crowd, even when you've got someone to 'bottle' the crowd for you.. If you're blind, without a lead boy, it must be massively more difficult.. Stop to re-tune between numbers and a crowd will melt away literally in seconds. And, by all accounts, BLJ, despite his blindness was a master at dominating a street crowd and proud of his ability to recognize the sound of anything less than a dime thrown into his tin cup (and would, with great disdain, remove the offending item and throw it back...a great way to shame your audience to be more generous). Using a capo instead of re-tuning makes much more sense.

And it has other obvious advantages too.. Pre-War steel string sets came in one gauge..Heavy (14 to 64). No one knows for certain what guitar (or guitars) Jefferson used on the streets, but it was most likely made by Lyon & Healy in Chicago.

By 1900, L & H built 25% of all guitars made in the US, under as many as 7 distinct brand names, positioned at different quality/price points in the market, as well as all the different grades of guitars sold by the two great mail order catalog retailers, Montgomery Ward and Sears & Roebuck.

Of all the L & H brands, the Washburn brand instruments were always in a class of their own, built by a separate team of craftsmen from the finest materials in limited numbers (averaging less than 1,000 instruments a year, over the first 3 decades of the 20th Century).

From the cheapest (a Ward or Sears "catalog" parlour, delivered COD, with case, for $4) to the top-of-the-line Washburn (a model 399 grand concert for $175) all L & H instruments were well made and, more importantly, well designed, but no guitars had truss rods in those days and not all guitars were designed for steel strings, regardless of who made them.

If you're a blind, black street singer/beggar, with an old, cheap, ladder-braced, second-hand, parlour, originally built for gut strings, it makes sense to tune down...you don't need an engineering degree to tell you it's not a good idea to try to tune a set of 14 to 64 gauge steel strings to concert on a guitar designed for gut strings..after you've ripped the bridge off one, you don't try it again (for those engineers out there, a set of gut strings at concert pitch in standard tuning on a guitar with a 24.8" scale, exerts about 80 lb ft of torque on a guitar bridge. the corresponding torque exerted by a set of 14 to 64 steel strings in standard tuning at concert is about 220 lb ft of torque, probably more than the peak torque the driven wheels of your car puts down to the road...unless you drive a muscle car, of course).

Anyway, sorry about that..must have been first-post nervousness in such exalted company that prompted such a long-winded attempt to make a very minor point. Oh, and by the way, tuning down 3 frets gives you that audible C sharp on the open 6th string and you can even play "Beggin' Back"  out of C shapes with the capo on the 6th fret... 

It's safe to say that Lemon appears to have been a standard tuning kind of guy. The two takes of Jack O' Diamonds, played with a bottleneck or knife, are both possibilities for Spanish tuning but since it's basically only a melody, it's difficult to say with complete confidence in what tuning he's playing for that one. My personal opinion is that he's probably tuned to Spanish.

I had this table posted in my website which is having some issues at the moment, so I'll repost it here. I think there are a couple of alternate takes missing, but all of those are also in standard tuning.

Volume	Track	Title	Key	Location	Month	Year	Pitch
1	01	I Want to Be Like Jesus in My Heart	C	Chicago	December	1925	-1
1	02	All I Want Is That Pure Religion	E	Chicago	December	1925	-1
1	03	Got the Blues	G	Chicago	March	1926	-1
1	04	Long Lonesome Blues	A	Chicago	March	1926	-1
1	05	Booster Blues	E	Chicago	March	1926	-1
1	06	Dry Southern Blues	C	Chicago	March	1926	-1
1	07	Black Horse Blues	C	Chicago	April	1926	0
1	08	Corinna Blues	C	Chicago	April	1926	0
1	09	Got the Blues	G	Chicago	May	1926	0
1	10	Long Lonesome Blues	A	Chicago	May	1926	0
1	11	Jack O''Diamond Blues	Spanish (G)	Chicago	May	1926	0
1	12	Jack O''Diamond Blues	Spanish (G)	Chicago	May	1926	0
1	13	Chock House Blues	C	Chicago	May	1926	0
1	14	Beggin'' Back	C	Chicago	August	1926	+3
1	15	Old Rounders Blues	C	Chicago	August	1926	+1
1	16	Stocking Feet Blues	A	Chicago	November	1926	-1
1	17	That Black Snake Moan	C	Chicago	November	1926	-2
1	18	Wartime Blues	E	Chicago	November	1926	-1
1	19	Broke and Hungry	G	Chicago	November	1926	-1
1	20	Shuckin'' Sugar Blues	A	Chicago	November	1926	-3
1	21	Booger Rooger Blues	C	Chicago	December	1926	-1
1	22	Rabbit Foot Blues	A	Chicago	December	1926	-1
1	23	Bad Luck Blues	C	Chicago	December	1926	+1
2	01	Black Snake Moan	C	Atlanta	March	1927	-2
2	02	Match Box Blues	A	Atlanta	March	1927	-1
2	03	Easy Rider Blues	G	Chicago	April	1927	0
2	04	Match Box Blues	A	Chicago	April	1927	0
2	05	Match Box Blues	A	Chicago	April	1927	+1
2	06	Rising High Water Blues	No Guitar (C)	Chicago	May	1927	0
2	07	Weary Dogs Blues	C	Chicago	May	1927	+1
2	08	Right of Way Blues	E	Chicago	May	1927	+1
2	09	Teddy Bear Blues	No Guitar (F)	Chicago	June	1927	0
2	10	Black Snake Dream Blues	No Guitar (G)	Chicago	June	1927	0
2	11	Hot Dogs	C	Chicago	June	1927	+1
2	12	He Arose from the Dead	C	Chicago	June	1927	+1
2	13	Struck Sorrow Blues	A	Chicago	September	1927	-1
2	14	Rambler Blues	G	Chicago	September	1927	0
2	15	Chinch Bug Blues	C	Chicago	October	1927	0
2	16	Deceitful Brownskin Blues	G	Chicago	October	1927	+1
2	17	Sunshine Special	C	Chicago	October	1927	+1
2	18	Gone Dead on You Blues	A	Chicago	October	1927	+1
2	19	Where Shall I Be?	E	Chicago	October	1927	+1
2	20	See That My Grave''s Kept Clean	E	Chicago	October	1927	+1
2	21	One Dime Blues	E	Chicago	October	1927	+1
2	22	Lonesome House Blues	C	Chicago	October	1927	+1
3	01	Blind Lemon''s Penitentiary Blues	C	Chicago	February	1928	-1
3	02	''Lectric Chair Blues	E	Chicago	February	1928	0
3	03	See That My Grave Is Kept Clean	E	Chicago	February	1928	0
3	04	Lemon''s Worried Blues	A	Chicago	February	1928	0
3	05	Mean Jumper Blues	C	Chicago	February	1928	0
3	06	Balky Mule Blues	A	Chicago	February	1928	0
3	07	Change My Luck Blues	C	Chicago	February	1928	0
3	08	Prison Cell Blues	E	Chicago	February	1928	0
3	09	Lemon''s Cannonball Moan	A	Chicago	March	1928	+1
3	10	Long Lastin'' Lovin''	A	Chicago	March	1928	0
3	11	Piney Woods Money Mama	E	Chicago	March	1928	0
3	12	Low Down Mojo Blues	E	Chicago	June	1928	+1
3	13	Competition Bed Blues	C	Chicago	July	1928	-1
3	14	Lock Step Blues	C	Chicago	July	1928	0
3	15	Hangman''s Blues	G	Chicago	July	1928	0
3	16	Sad News Blues	C	Chicago	July	1928	0
3	17	How Long How Long	C	Chicago	July	1928	+1
3	18	Christmas Eve Blues	C	Chicago	August	1928	+1
3	19	Happy New Year Blues	C	Chicago	August	1928	+1
3	20	Maltese Cat Blues	C	Chicago	August	1928	+1
3	21	D B Blues	E	Chicago	August	1928	-1
4	01	Eagle Eyed Mama	A	Chicago	January	1929	-1
4	02	Dynamite Blues	C	Chicago	January	1929	-1
4	03	Disgusted Blues	C	Chicago	January	1929	-1
4	04	Competition Bed Blues	C	Chicago	January	1929	-1
4	05	Sad New Blues	C	Chicago	January	1929	-1
4	06	Peach Orchard Mama	A	Chicago	March	1929	-1
4	07	Oil Well Blues	E	Chicago	March	1929	0
4	08	Tin Cup Blues	C	Chicago	March	1929	0
4	09	Big Night Blues	A	Chicago	March	1929	0
4	10	Empty House Blues	C	Chicago	March	1929	-1
4	11	Saturday Night Spender Blues	E	Chicago	March	1929	-1
4	12	That Black Snake Moan No. 2	C	Chicago	March	1929	-1
4	13	Bed Springs Blues	A	Richmond	September	1929	-1
4	14	Yo Yo Blues	E	Richmond	September	1929	0
4	15	Mosquito Moan	C	Richmond	September	1929	-1
4	16	Southern Woman Blues	A	Richmond	September	1929	-2
4	17	Bakershop Blues	C	Richmond	September	1929	-2
4	18	Pneumonia Blues	E	Richmond	September	1929	-2
4	19	Long Distance Moan	C	Richmond	September	1929	-2
4	20	That Crawlin'' Baby Blues	G	Richmond	September	1929	-2
4	21	Fence Breakin'' Yellin'' Blues	C	Richmond	September	1929	-2
4	22	Cat Man Blues	A	Richmond	September	1929	-2
4	23	The Cheaters Spell	E	Richmond	September	1929	-2
4	24	Bootin'' Me ''Bout	C	Richmond	September	1929	-2

I corrected the quoted section so it appeared formatted as a quote, was missing initial '[' - rivers

[Johnm]

Hi cblanch,
Welcome to Weenie Campbell.  The scenario you propose in which Lemon routinely tuned a minor third low and capoed to the third fret to sound at A 440 in standard tuning is implausible, I think, for a number of reasons:
   * For someone playing on the street who is blind, it would make no sense to rely so completely on a device that is so easily mislaid, lost or stolen.  Far easier and more practical is to be able to tune to the pitch that enables you to play the different songs in your repertoire in the playing positions that you've determined work best for them.  Tuning up or down quickly is not a big deal for someone who spent the time playing that Lemon did, and there's no reason he needed to be in tune to any fixed pitch reference point--simply being in tune with himself in the relative sense would suffice perfectly well.
   * All of the guitars that Lemon played were twelve frets to the body, and a fair percentage of Lemon's tunes that he played out of E position, G position and A position in standard tuning worked in the range of the ninth to twelfth fret on the first and second strings.  Capoed at the third fret, anything he played above the ninth fret would require him to be fretting above the point at which the neck meets the body of the guitar.  The ease and fluidity with which he played in that portion of his range when required to by a song's demands make the capo on the third fret theory a non-starter.
   * In all of Lemon's recorded repertoire, there is only one song, "Beggin' Back", that would have required him to tune more than a whole step higher than concert pitch.  The great majority of his repertoire has him either at concert pitch or slightly lower.  The habitual use of a capo to sound at lower than concert pitch would be very odd.
   * Once Lemon started recording, I don't know how much sense it makes to posit theories with regard to his playing practice that use his busking as the basis for his guitar playing method.  He was a hugely popular and successful recording artist, a best seller.  I don't believe it is known how much he continued to busk after he began recording.  What's more to the point is how he functioned in the recording studio, especially since that is what Frank's table addresses.
All best,
Johnm

[Lastfirstface]

From the cheapest (a Ward or Sears "catalog" parlour, delivered COD, with case, for $4) to the top-of-the-line Washburn (a model 399 grand concert for $175) all L & H instruments were well made and, more importantly, well designed, but no guitars had truss rods in those days and not all guitars were designed for steel strings, regardless of who made them.

If you're a blind, black street singer/beggar, with an old, cheap, ladder-braced, second-hand, parlour, originally built for gut strings, it makes sense to tune down...you don't need an engineering degree to tell you it's not a good idea to try to tune a set of 14 to 64 gauge steel strings to concert on a guitar designed for gut strings..after you've ripped the bridge off one, you don't try it again (for those engineers out there, a set of gut strings at concert pitch in standard tuning on a guitar with a 24.8" scale, exerts about 80 lb ft of torque on a guitar bridge. the corresponding torque exerted by a set of 14 to 64 steel strings in standard tuning at concert is about 220 lb ft of torque, probably more than the peak torque the driven wheels of your car puts down to the road...unless you drive a muscle car, of course).

The photo of BLJ has him holding a tailpiece guitar, none of which were "built for gut strings."

[Stuart]

String tension for a guitar (usually measured in pounds in the U.S., but sometimes in Newtons) and torque (measured in Newton meters or foot pounds) are not the same.

[Pencapchew1988]

It’s kind of funny how a lot of people don’t notice that Blind Lemon was holding a tailpiece guitar. I’ve noticed a lot of art where it’s depicted as a stain on the bottom of the guitar.