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Author Topic: Buddy Moss  (Read 12864 times)

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Online Johnm

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Buddy Moss
« on: August 06, 2003, 08:43:55 PM »
Hi All,
Buddy is a guy I had been intending to check out for some time.  An East Coast player originally from Georgia, he had a period of recording activity in the mid-30s cut short by a five year prison term.  He got out of prison in time to run smack dab into the World War II Era recording ban.  From that point onward his career in music was dogged by hard luck.  I actually saw him perform in Philadelphia in the mid-60s.  He was not sharp, but you could tell he knew a lot.  At the time I found his vocals a little too smooth for my taste.  He also did an album for Biograph, which I used to own but lost somewhere along the way.  I have always been curious about him because musicians of his era and region almost always rated him very highly (including Rev. Davis, who could be notoriously persnickety in rating the work of other musicians).
Anyhow, I picked up all three volumes of his complete early recordings on Document at Port Townsend last week and have been having a great time listening to them.  The first volume is almost exclusively duets with either Fred McMullen or Curley Weaver, in that spiffy, well-worked-out duet format at which that circle of musicians excelled (another great PT class possibility).  At the time of these recordings, Buddy was 19 years old (born 1914), and awesomely precocious in terms of developing his own instrumental and vocal styles.  Vol. 2 is the killer.  It opens with five duets with Curley Weaver, including two great takes of "Broke Down Engine", and then launches into 17 solo performances by Buddy, all recorded between July 30 and August 11, 1944.  These cuts are tremendous and quite varied, with an 8-bar blues in dropped-D tuned a whole step low, and numbers in E, A, G, and C standard.  He abounds with great original ideas and sings really well.  Vol. 3 is back to the duet format, primarily, with the high points being some really stellar duets with Josh White on gospel numbers where Josh is playing in Open D, where he particularly excelled.
I have really been impressed by the music on these CDs and have found several tunes which I intend to figure out.  I feel like I now understand the high esteem in which Buddy Moss was held by his peers.
All Best,
John  

Offline frankie

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Re: Buddy Moss
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2003, 03:34:34 PM »
I have the first of the Document volumes and while I liked what I heard, it didn't exactly set me on fire and I never got motivated to pick up the other two volumes.  I think I'll reconsider, though...  I confess to liking his solo material more than the duet stuff, which is probably why the first volume didn't really do it for me (although there are cuts that I like a lot).

Online Johnm

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Re: Buddy Moss
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2003, 04:02:13 PM »
Hi Frank,
Great to hear from you!  Clifftop sounds like fun, I have to go sometime (provided it doesn't run simultaneously with Port Townsend).  Those East Coast duets are great, but I could use a little more wildness, too.  It's not exactly like Joe Williams and Henry Townsend, but then, nothing else is like those guys playing together, either!
All best,
John

Offline Slack

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Re: Buddy Moss
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2003, 10:50:44 AM »
Hi John, as I think I told you, I bought all the Buddy M documents too -- but have only been able to listen to Vol 2 so far - which I really like, you can certainly understand the comparison to BB Fuller.   These are pretty clear recordings to boot!

cheers,

Offline uncle bud

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Re: Buddy Moss
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2003, 01:14:37 PM »
In our Buddy Moss discussion last week at the workshop, I seem to have conflated two Moss cd's I have into one. One is actually on Travelin' Man, Buddy Moss 1930-1941, and it's a compilation of stuff that includes the Georgia Cotton Pickers stuff, some of the Georgia Browns material, solo tunes, duets with McMullen,  Weaver, and Josh White, plus some things with Brownie McGhee and Sonny Terry. It's odd listening, as I can hear Blind Boy Fuller, Brownie, Josh White, Barbecue Bob - a whole mix of east coast styles. Who's influencing who. I'd like to hear Document vol 2.

The second CD I have is the reissue of the Biograph LP JohnM referred to losing. The CD issue is "Buddy Moss: Atlanta Blues Legend" and has extra material not on the LP. Playing here is mighty fine, with slightly more postwar sophistication (and some repetitiveness) happening harmonically - recording took place in 1966. You can really hear Fuller on some of the tunes here. There is a sameness to some of the stuff, and too much reverb, but overall a strong disc. I can't find songwriting credits anywhere on the cd but the notes refer to Moss's "own song" Chesterfield, which I know only from John Jackson. Buddy's version has some fun playing.

I'm not sure this cd is still available from Biograph. I see it on occasion in used cd shops, where I picked it up.

Uncle Bud

Online Johnm

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Re: Buddy Moss
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2003, 11:28:19 AM »
Hi all,
For interested parties, the next e-lesson is in progress.  I started working out Buddy Moss's "New Lovin' Blues", an 8-bar blues in Dropped D tuned a whole step low.  Boy, is it great.  I figured out and transcribed the intro this morning, hope to get the verse accompaniment and solo this afternoon and tomorrow.  ThenI'll record the lesson and get it off to John D.  I hope to have it real soon.
All Best,
John

Offline Slack

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Re: Buddy Moss
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2003, 11:43:04 AM »
Hi John, that's great news!  

That was the tune that forced me to buy the 2 documents. ;D  Looking forward to it.

cheers,

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Re: Buddy Moss
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2004, 07:51:36 AM »
Do you have any stuff by Curley Weaver?? Buddy Moss told Cora Mae Bryant, daughter of Moss' long-time playing partner Curley Weaver, that he was playing with Fuller, Brownie, and Gary Davis up in the Carolina's but, "When I heard Curley I heard the best."? Apparently Moss moved backed to Georgia to learn from Weaver.? That is why you hear a lot of Fuller and east coast piedmont influence in his early recordings, but the late Biograph CD that you once had has TONS of Weaver songs and licks.

Brownie, a long time friend of Cora Mae Bryant, once called and expressed his amazement at Weaver's playing style.? Bryant said Brownie played Weaver's Sometime Mama on the original 78 for her over the phone!!!
« Last Edit: April 11, 2005, 10:14:05 PM by Johnm »

Online Johnm

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Re: Buddy Moss
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2004, 08:54:11 AM »
Hi poney boy,
Welcome to the group!? Interesting that you should mention Curley Weaver.? Just last night I was selecting a couple of cuts on which he plays for a workshop I will be doing at Port Townsend concentrating on the second guitar part in great Country Blues duets.? Curley seems kind of a mystery man to me.? He was so adroit at "seconding" that he seems most often to have been cast in that role in the recording studio, whether behind Buddy Moss, Fred McMullen, Blind Willie McTell, or someone else.? I like his solo cuts that I have heard, particularly "No, No Blues" and "Ticket Agent", from the '50s, but on the basis of what I've heard, it's hard to see how he could be rated above Rev. Davis as a solo guitarist, or Buddy Moss, for that matter.? Maybe Buddy was responding to Curley's accompaniment skills, an area of talent that is especially appreciated by fellow musicians.
All best,
Johnm?
« Last Edit: April 06, 2005, 09:26:55 AM by Johnm »

poney_boy

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Re: Buddy Moss
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2004, 09:20:54 AM »
Which two songs are you working on?

I used to listen to a lot of Blind Willie McTell and never even considered purchasing one of Weaver's CDs because he seemed like just an ordinary back up guitarist. But after talking with Cora Mae and hearing some of Weaver's solo stuff, I started collecting and really getting into it.  Unlike many of the blues artists of his era, just about every one of his solo songs are different.  You can't get by with learning three or four of his songs and think you can get his whole reportoire or style down.  Ticket Agent is different from Tricks Ain't Workin' No More which is different from No No Blues which is different from My Baby's Gone, etc.

I do not think Moss was referring to Weaver's accompaniment skills because once you have studied and learned Weaver's styles and then go back and listen to Moss' last recording on the Biograph label you know that he does Cold Rainy Day, Oh Lawdy Mama, Come on Around to My House, and Wee Midnight Hours, all original Weaver tunes, very similar to the way Weaver did them.

By the way, Ticket Agent can't be found on a CD, how did you hear that song? 

Online Johnm

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Re: Buddy Moss
« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2004, 10:47:23 AM »
Hi,
I heard "Ticket Agent" on an old Blues Classic album, put out by Arhoolie, which I do not believe survived into the CD era.  It is It is "Country Blues Classics, Vol. 1", Blues Classics #5. 
All best,
Johnm

Offline frankie

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Re: Buddy Moss
« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2004, 01:53:30 PM »
Hi poney_boy - welcome to the weenie line!

Unlike many of the blues artists of his era, just about every one of his solo songs are different.? You can't get by with learning three or four of his songs and think you can get his whole reportoire or style down.

I wonder what musicians you would say fit this description...
« Last Edit: April 11, 2005, 10:15:49 PM by Johnm »

Offline Blue Poodle

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Re: Buddy Moss
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2004, 07:32:12 AM »
I would have a lot of interest in seeing more lesson materials, tablature on the playing of Moss and Weaver.  I very much enjoyed the lesson that John Miller did this summer at Port Townsend on guitar duets, where he used a Moss/Weaver duet as an interesting example.
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Offline Bunker Hill

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Re: Buddy Moss
« Reply #13 on: November 26, 2005, 03:34:12 AM »
An aquaintance in Memphis requested a scan of a 70s Buddy Moss interview (Melody Maker July 15, 1972). As it's a fairly good insight into the personality behind the man I thought I'd pass it on here.
 
Buddy Moss
talks to
Valerie Wilmer
"BUDDY MOSS? Oh he's really a mean guy?you ought to stay clear of him!" That was one of several warnings I received on making it known that l intended to visit the Atlanta bluesman who had shared one of Josh White's first record dates.
I'd been told Moss was moody and mean and knew he'd served a jail term stiff enough to put paid to his successful recording career back in the mid-thirties, so naturally I approached his house with some trepidation.
Moss had rather barked down the telephone when I'd mumbled something about an interview and the man who thrust his head round the door looked like the voice sounded.
Sturdy and well-muscled for a man of 58, his broad shoulders and close-cropped, pugnacious head represented much more than the arrogance that stems from insecurity.
Moss is tough because he's had a lot to contend with in his life; he's also a man of great personal charm?something I not only experienced myself but observed from the warmth with which he was greeted later that afternoon.
They'd also told me Buddy Moss was "difficult." What people who'd tried to exploit his talent did not?or did? realise is that Buddy Moss is not about to get talked over by anyone
"People been coming round here asking me to record things," said the guitarist. "Well, you have to give something every once in a while? but to a worthy cause. There's no sense in making one per son richer when you are getting poorer."
Flattery carries very little weight with Moss who was shrewd enough thirty years ago to guide his old friend Brownie McGhee, to royalties that were due to him.
"Lots of the rock bands, they're trying to go over to the blues?or at least to do their things in a bluesy way," said Moss
"This English guy called me?he does lots of stuff that B. B. King does. He talked to me once, said he wanted me to do just a session, but you know most of those guys, when they want you to do 'just a session,' then there's something in there that they want. They'll do it and then they say to themselves 'Yeah, man, we really did this thing right!'
"Next time, next thing you hear is what you did with them and you hear it some other place! You get Paid for the session but they collect the royalties. In fact, every song that I write I copyright it. Then, if things do change, I'm the owner."
Between January 1933 and August 1935, Moss recorded 59 titles under his own name He also backed Blind Willie McTell and played harmonica behind his old running partner, Curley Weaver, on sessions from the same period
His best songs financially he recalls, were "When I'm Dead and Gone" and "V-8 Ford," but his period of incarceration put an end to his recording career until 1965 when he played the Atlanta Blues Festival and Cut a date for Columbia The session has never been released, and Moss is understandably bitter.
"They'll leave it on the shelf for 4 or 5 years and tie you up so you can't record for no-one else, then release it and it's a hit. They'll push something else as long as they can, and then when it starts going down, they'll reach for you or anyone else they can "But yet and still blues always had a little spot here with me "?Moss touched his heart?" And it doesn't make no difference if there's no words to the music, as long as it's a blues, I just love it." Moss came originally from ''a little old country town," Jewell, Georgia, and moved through Augusta to the state's capital as a child. He started playing the harmonica at the age of 12 or 13 but did not pick up the guitar till around
He taught himself to play by listening to records by Blind Blake and Blind Lemon Jefferson, ant through personal contact with Barbecue Bob. He met Josh White, who came from Greenville, South Carolina, on his second record date.
"We never worked together as a team," he said. "Sometimes, if I was going to record, he would be there also, so we'd get together and maybe do a few things together. He'd think of this thing, and maybe I'd think of that thing, and finally we'd do something.
"We spent a lot of time together, and I also worked with Barbecue Bob and Curley Weaver, but practically all the old guys are dead. I was more or less a Ioner after they died, in fact I've been a loner for practically all my life."
Moss has done very little playing since he appeared at the Newport Festival a couple of years ago, because his wife became ill and he decided to take a day job for security reasons.
"Some places in Atlanta there's interest in blues, but some like sentimental, some like Country and Western. I'm going to stick with blues?I can do other things, but I just don't like anything except blues.
"See, I've lived the blues and I love the blues. You take a little of what we call heritage?some people say you forget it, but you never do forget that. It doesn't make any difference?unless you're very young, you understand? that's something you can't forget,"
There is a possibility that Buddy Moss may be headed for Europe some time this year. Should the tour materialise, there's no doubt that he still can play judging from the little I heard of his gentle guitar and wistful way of singing which is so dramatically opposed to the hard headed, tough-guy image he projects for self-preservation.
"No" he smiled, " I don't think it?s strange that people in Europe should be interested In the blues?Europe or anyplace else?because you can take the blues and do anything you want with it.
You can't take a sentimental song or jazz?and I'd say jazz was originated from blues, anyway?and make a blues out of it. Maybe some people could, but it'd be very hard to do because if you never had the blues, you don't know 'em.
"You don't have to have lived a hard life yourself, you have to see the other people lead a hard life and know blues. I'd say that round in the 'thirties it was grand for me but it was tough on other peoples?you see my point?
"You know I couldn't say that because I see you live a hard life and I don't, that I have to do it in order to sing the blues, but I?ve seen so much of how people did live though it was grand for me; Musicians, in a way?they had a good time. The only thing is, sometimes a guy trusts people too much, which I had the misfortune of doing with two or three bad business ventures.
"If you can't trust a human, you're in bad condition, but now it's getting to be dog-eat-dog, you know."
Moss shook his head sadly. Wisely, he changed the subject
"Would you like to hear an old country blues?" he asked, reaching for his venerable dark brown Gibson.
"I don't like it, but you might." I certainly did.

Offline dj

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Re: Buddy Moss
« Reply #14 on: November 26, 2005, 11:58:36 AM »
Thanks for posting this, Bunker Hill.  Buddy Moss has always been one of my favorites. 

Does anyone know if Moss's 1965 Columbia sessions have ever been released?  Has any post-war recording of Buddy Moss been released other than the 1966 Folklore Society of Greater Washington concert that came out on Biograph as Atlanta Blues Legend?

Offline Bunker Hill

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Re: Buddy Moss
« Reply #15 on: November 26, 2005, 11:45:17 PM »
Does anyone know if Moss's 1965 Columbia sessions have ever been released?? Has any post-war recording of Buddy Moss been released other than the 1966 Folklore Society of Greater Washington concert that came out on Biograph as Atlanta Blues Legend?
I have a note that all but three of them were on Biograph CD139. I only own the 1969 LP so unable to comment as to whether this CD is the original LP with these items added or form part of another compilation:
Wee midnight hours(unissued)
Mamie   (ditto)
Chesterfield   (ditto)
Hurry home   
Red River   
Pushin? it   
Comin? back   
How I feel today   
That?ll never happen no more
Oh Lawdy mama   
(v/hca/g with Jeff Espina, hca/g.Recorded Nashville, 4 May 1966)
« Last Edit: November 26, 2005, 11:46:29 PM by Bunker Hill »

Offline dj

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Re: Buddy Moss
« Reply #16 on: November 27, 2005, 11:11:18 AM »
Quote
I have a note that all but three of them were on Biograph CD139.

Thanks for that input, Bunker Hill.  The last 7 tracks you list are indeed the first seven tracks on Biograph CD139.  The notes to the CD don't clearly state where these 7 tracks came from, merely saying that they were recorded "the same year" (as the Washington concert, i.e. 1966). 

The tracks recorded at the Folklore Society of Greater Washington concert on June 10, 1966 which make up tracks 8 - 18 of the Biograph CD are:
I'm Sitting On Top Of The World*
Kansas City*
It Was In The Weary Hour Night
Chesterfield
I've Got To Keep To The Highway
Come On Around To My House*
Step It Up And Go*
Everyday Seems Like Sunday
I Got A Woman, Don't Mean Me No Good*
Betty And Dupree*
Every Day, Every Day*

Tracks marked with a * feature John Jackson (J.J. in the Biograph notes) on second guitar.

Offline Bunker Hill

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Re: Buddy Moss
« Reply #17 on: November 27, 2005, 11:48:40 AM »
I assume the CD is at maximum playing time therefore leaving no room for the remaining three...or maybe questionable performance?

I must reacquaint myself with Robert Springer's "So I Said 'The Hell With It': A Difficult Interview With Eugene"Buddy" Moss in Blues Unlimited 117 (Jan-Feb 1976)

Offline dj

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Re: Buddy Moss
« Reply #18 on: November 27, 2005, 01:01:50 PM »
The CD runs 63 minutes and 10 seconds, so there was plenty of room for the 3 unissued tracks.

Offline Chezztone

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Re: Buddy Moss
« Reply #19 on: December 02, 2005, 02:44:19 PM »
Yes, Buddy Moss is great! There's some question as to whether he was an influence ON Blind Boy Fuller, even though he was younger and from a different part of the country. Certainly one of them listened hard to the other. I've just started listening closely to Buddy, after hearing his "Got to Give Me Some Of It" (which I'm now doing with my jug band) on a compilation. That one's a duet. vocally and instrumentally, and it is just one of those perfect recordings. I bought the Essential Buddy Moss twofer after that, but no track is as great as that one. Check it out. Chezz

Offline dj

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Re: Buddy Moss
« Reply #20 on: December 02, 2005, 05:28:21 PM »
Quote
There's some question as to whether he was an influence ON Blind Boy Fuller, even though he was younger and from a different part of the country.

I've always felt that he was.  Moss started recording as a vocalist in 1933, two years before Fuller (he'd previously recorded on harmonica with the Georgia Cotton Pickers), and apparently his records sold fairly well.  Moss was based in Atlanta at the time, and Fuller was up in North Carolina, but people travel and records travel further.  And we know that Fuller spent a lot of time listening to and learning from records.

Offline Bunker Hill

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Re: Buddy Moss
« Reply #21 on: December 03, 2005, 12:14:08 AM »
I must reacquaint myself with Robert Springer's "So I Said 'The Hell With It': A Difficult Interview With Eugene"Buddy" Moss in Blues Unlimited 117 (Jan-Feb 1976)
For information here's what Moss told Springer (12 Aug 1975) about that Columbia session:
RS: Did you stop playing because you weren't making any money or enough money with it?
BM: Yeah, that was one reason, and then another reason, they tried to play me for a sucker. So, to keep from making them damn rich . . .
RS: Who?
BM: Columbia. So, finally John (Hammond Sr.) come back here and he met me and he takes me out to dinner, he do this and do that and so finally, hell, I'm stuck again.
RS: How long ago was this?
BM: '56. Let me show you . . . (comes back with a recording contract with Columbia which he shows me).
RS: It says '66 here. You were supposed to record two sides per year. Did you do that?
BM: No.
RS: Why not?
BM: That's gonna be a problem . . .
RS: It says here you were supposed to record on the 3rd of May. Did you go up there or did they come down here[Atlanta]?
BM: Just didn't go. So . . .
RS: So this contract didn't mean anything anymore?
BM: No.
RS: So, what did they do wrong?
BM: Didn't do anything wrong. I can record a record but you cannot compel nobody to sell it.
RS: How many pieces did you record?
BM: Ten and none of tem came out.
RS: So you didn't make any money off this contract?
BM: Well, I got a draw down. So, that's all, they didn't lose nothin', I didn't lose nothin'. So, if it had been released, so my wife get it, if I don't get it, she get it, so what's the difference.
RS: Did you write them?
BM: Yeah, but I never got no answer . . .
RS: Did you see John Hammond again?
BM: About a year after. I was in New York. He said they was gonna do something with this label, that label and they never did nothin'.
RS: And you haven't heard from him since?
BM: No.

Online Johnm

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Re: Buddy Moss
« Reply #22 on: December 03, 2005, 11:54:33 AM »
Hi all,
The interview exchanges re Buddy Moss's recording career are pretty depressing.  What they seem to indicate is that no matter how strong musically, intelligent and tough musicians are (and I believe Buddy Moss was all these things), they tend to be in way over their heads when dealing with Music Business types, even those with good track records like John Hammond, Sr.  Part of the problem is that bad experiences with unethical types can taint all future dealings, so that a musician is disinclined to trust anybody, including people who have his best interests in mind.  When an all-encompassing distrust is combined with an exaggerated sense of the money available for good blues-playing in the marketplace, you end up with a recipe for a career that, in hindsight, seems inexplicably to have yielded less than it should have, based on the musician's gifts.
Reading about Buddy Moss's difficulties makes it so clear how fortunate the musicians have been who have been helped by managers who operated as strong advocates in their behalf.  I think the way Trish Byerly helped out John Jackson over the years and made sure that he received his due is one of the most striking examples of how an energetic and highly prinicipled manager could make sure that a musician wasn't unfairly used by the Music Business.
All best,
Johnm

Offline Bunker Hill

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Re: Buddy Moss
« Reply #23 on: January 16, 2006, 10:52:42 AM »
I thought I'd revive this topic in light of that man in Hannover, Germany (who must never sleep) has a work in progress on Buddy Moss which includes some Bruce Bastin sleeve note scans:

http://www.wirz.de/music/mossfrm.htm

Offline dj

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Re: Buddy Moss
« Reply #24 on: January 16, 2006, 12:12:19 PM »
Interesting.  What's up with that "George Mitchell Collection Vol. 2"?  Fat Possum doesn't show it on their website.  Is that available only via download from emusic?

Offline pbyhre

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Re: Buddy Moss
« Reply #25 on: January 17, 2006, 07:55:30 AM »
It is available on emusic.  I downloaded it a couple weeks ago.  Sounds great to me.

Offline LB

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Re: Buddy Moss
« Reply #26 on: January 18, 2006, 08:36:53 AM »
Great thread. I have an album called Rediscovery of Moss and it's so funny because lyrics, titles and facts get so scrambled in the mish mash of communications. I took a readable photo of the back cover because the notes are fun to read and thought others might like to read it. What is funny is songs like "Wee Midnight Hour" an Atlanta standard is called "It was the weary hour night". Wow, someone was working too late at the typewriter. I am currently trying to get about 25 albums of this stuff tranferred into my computer on MP3 so I can study everything on my laptop. Thought I'd share these digital images. Read this cover and you might enjoy it.

Click here to see the back of the album and notes


Offline pbyhre

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Re: Buddy Moss
« Reply #27 on: January 18, 2006, 09:03:12 AM »
Hey dj, I just re-read your post and discovered I probably didn't answer your question.  I wasn't able to find it on Fat Possum's site either.  If you don't have a subscription to emusic, you can get a trial subscription for 50 free downloads and then just cancel right away.  I got the Buddy Moss, Robert Belfour's "What's Wrong With You", and some other stuff.

Emusic does have a terrific selection of blues and is probably worth the price of a subscription, but I'm a Po Boy!

pb

Offline Bunker Hill

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Re: Buddy Moss
« Reply #28 on: January 18, 2006, 09:47:33 AM »
Hey dj, I just re-read your post and discovered I probably didn't answer your question.  I wasn't able to find it on Fat Possum's site either. 
I've been thumbing through blues mags of the 70s because I can visualise a published news item about these Mitchell recordings that gave the background to them and where recorded. Am currently drawing a blank but will persevere and report back.

Offline Rivers

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Re: Buddy Moss
« Reply #29 on: January 22, 2006, 06:17:17 PM »
Speaking of Buddy Moss I always wondered what that funny shaped guitar was he is pictured holding in the old composite advert. Then I saw this while out surfing: http://www.williesalomon.com/kay_kraft.htm

Offline LB

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Re: Buddy Moss
« Reply #30 on: January 22, 2006, 10:39:49 PM »
Hi Rivers. I've always been told about that guitar and a coat being given to several Atlanta players for a photo shoot after a recording session. I'd like to try one. I have a line on one that I'll be pursuing this year. There's a slot head version too. I'd like to know more info if someone has it.

Offline Rivers

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Re: Buddy Moss
« Reply #31 on: January 24, 2006, 05:20:22 PM »
Hi LB,

It figures, I couldn't imagine Buddy, Curly & Josh all had the same model...
Good luck with your quest, be sure to have a B&W grainy photo taken of yourself with it.

Offline Bunker Hill

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Re: Buddy Moss
« Reply #32 on: January 25, 2006, 11:40:11 AM »
I've been thumbing through blues mags of the 70s because I can visualise a published news item about these Mitchell recordings that gave the background to them and where recorded. Am currently drawing a blank but will persevere and report back.
Having got nowhere with this search I emailed someone who might know but they didn't. However this observation was made: 'About twenty years ago you made me a cassette, of a cassette, of those Moss Mitchell recordings'

I did???!!! A search amongst hundreds of boxed up cassetts in my attic revealed the very tape he was referring to. I'm ashamed to say I have no memory of ever having played it. The cassette index reads as follows:

GEO MITCHELL RECS
DATE/LOCATION UNK
BUDDY MOSS & BILL TROIANNI*

GULF COAST BOUND*
NOBODY'S BUSINESS*
HURRY HOME*
BYE BYE BABY
TRICKS AIN'T WORKING NO MORE
WHEN YOU LEFT ME
IN THE EVENING
MAMIE
LAWDY MAMA
BLUE SHADOWS FALLING
UNTITLED INSTRUMENTAL
1,000 WOMEN BLUES
STRANGEST WOMAN
EASE YOUR WORRED MIND
THAT WILL NEVER HAPPEN NO MORE

I'm afraid I haven't the time nor inclination to listen now but will report back  on the titles not on emusic in due course. Anybody know who Bill Troianni was?

For those interested the other side of the cassette is listed as having:

HOWELL/ALBERT YARBOROUGH: WORRIED BLUES
HOWELL: YO YO BLUES
HOWELL: JELLY ROLL BLUES
HOWELL/YARBOROUGH: SOLID ROAD
HOWELL: TWO WOMEN
HOWELL: BLOOD RED RIVER
HOWELL/YARBOROUGH: HAIR LIKE DROPS OF RAIN
HOWELL/YARBOROUGH: BLOOD RED RIVER
HOWELL/YARBOROUGH: WROTE YOU A LETTER
HOWELL: NOBODY'S BUSINESS IF I DO
ROSA LEE HILL/JAMES SHORTER: COUNT THE DAYS I'M GONE
ROSA LEE HILL/JAMES SHORTER: GOOD MORNING BLUES
ROSA LEE HILL/JAMES SHORTER: LORD I FEEL BETTER
JAMES SHORTER: WALK WITH ME
SHORTER/JESSIE MAE HEMPHILL: LET THE CIRCLE BE UNBROKEN

Offline oddenda

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Re: Buddy Moss
« Reply #33 on: October 12, 2008, 01:43:29 AM »
Dear Folks -

          Ah, Buddy... my bete noire, the one that got away! I first met him at The Electric Circus  on St. Mark's Place in "the village" (NYC) in 1969 at one of the blues shows there for a couple of months of Wednesdays. Got his phone # and all. That summer, Bruce Bastin and I made our first trip into the SE, mainly looking for 78s (successfully, I might add) and found ourselves in Atlanta on a Sunday with nothing to do. So we called up Buddy and were invited over - bingo! He was affable, still had his LG sized Gibson, and could PLAY; we asked him a lot of questions, as "anoraks" do, and he answered calmly and truthfully. He also gave us leads that were close enough for us to locate Willie Trice, Floyd Council, and Richard Trice on our way back North (and Bruce back to the UK).

          Bruce and I ended up doing a series of articles for BLUES UNLIMITED, really the first serious look in regarding the SE or Piedmont blues performers. We both went back the following year as Bruce had been asked to write a tome on East Coast Blues (CRYING FOR THE CAROLINES)in the new Studio Vista series of monographs. I purchased a couple of guitars and a tape recorder so that I could do more than merely drive the car - thus Trix was begat! An intense month, + of deep research followed and the book was on - I did another series on our travels for BU as well. We were back the following year as Bastin was going to UNC-Chapel Hill (in Folklore). We eventually got to Buddy's one afternoon, later than anticipated - Bruce had sent him a copy of the new book - to be greeted by a drunken Moss. He was fit to be tied by any mention of his departure from recording, saying that the so-called White man got his kicks saying such derogatory stuff about the poor Black man. I must at this point say that NO mention was made of WHY he disappeared in 1935, and reappeared in NC in 1941: Buddy had shot and killed his girl friend on suspicion that she had been fooling around behind his back.


          A SIDE BAR: Buddy Moss was one of the main Piedmont recording artists of his day, after Blind Blake and before Blind Boy Fuller - he shared his status with Josh White. He sold records and his songs still crop up within SE communities. Unfortunately, this was the teeth of The Great Depression and funds for record purchases were thin on the ground. He was paid, I think it was, $15/song at his first session with the fees going up to $35 later on [relying on a not so sharp memory here... I could be wrong, but have no way of checking at the moment]. So he was at the top of the heap by '35, with a long career ahead of him... except... .


          Buddy ranted on and I got sick of it, having come from a nasty experience with an illiterate deputy sheriff in Newton Co. earlier that day (it's why we were late). So I got up and said, "Buddy, I took enough shit from the cracker this morning (another story), I don't have to listen to any more." As I headed for the door, Buddy went to his dresser and got out his pistol and made to come after me with it (according to Bruce, who was still on the couch). Fortunately, his wife Dot outweighed him by at least a factor of three and kept him in the house. Bastin grabbed the offending book and skedaddled out to the van where I was waiting and shouted, "DRIVE." Bruce never saw Buddy again.

          But I did, fool that I was. And he was a MF as a musician! I went by a number of times in my decade's field-work in the SE interviewing, photographing older musicians, recording them if they were still interested and able. I WANTED BUDDY... he was THAT good. One time I went by and he had some Blacks with him, including Jerry Ricks (I think). Buddy spent a lot of time reaming me out and saying all sorts of shit about me and mine. When I left, Jerry left, too, and wondered why I put up with Buddy's essentially racist diatribes, He was THAT good.   

          And I came THAT close. Another time, as more time had gone under the bridge, Buddy agreed... I offered $500.00 for an album, way more than I had been able to afford to pay other musicians (I didn't have a label yet). HE WAS THAT GOOD. He and a bass player (White, by the way) rehearsed at his house andwe made a date to record the next day. I called Buddy before leaving the motel and he said, "I got a call from Excello Records last night." I told Buddy that I could not afford more money, but was ready to record him then and there, and put the cash in his hand. No dice. I now know that I should have recorded the rehearsal, but... . The  Excello ploy was just that; Buddy Moss never recorded again after that - he did a session for Columbia before that, and an LP came out on Biograph of a concert tape. That also was released on CD, along with the Columbia stuff!

          At many points in his life, Buddy Moss was his own worst enemy. It was J.B. Long who got him out of jail in 40/41 (another story), taking him up to NC for ten years (part of his release agreement) which is why he was not in Atlanta in 49 when Regal recorded McTell, Curley, Frank Edwards, David Wylie. And that is why he last appeared on commercial recordings with Brownie & Sonny, and Jordan Webb, Robert Young - Long was looking to replace the recently deceased Blind Boy Fuller (Fulton Allen). Moss not only killed his girl friend, he killed his career and never forgave the world for that. He was worth the travail and I wish that I had been able to get him on tape; i did see him once more at a National Folk Festival at Wolf Trap... probably one of his last hurrahs. At least george Mitchell and Roger Brown were able to "get" him earlier in the 60s.

         Another man done gone, but much was his own doing. It ain't easy being Black, poor, and proud in these United States. Buddy could not roll with the punches and according to Blacks who knew him such as R.L. Lowe (a/k/a Robert "Steamboat" Fulton), Roy Dunn and his brother, Oscar, Buddy was just a difficult man, which race amplified in his dealings with me. Blacks eventually stayed away from him in the main, after prolonged exposure. Sad, but true - BUT HE WAS SO GOOD! Sorry it wouldn't/couldn't work out, Buddy.

yrs,
     Peter B.

Offline doctorpep

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Re: Buddy Moss
« Reply #34 on: October 12, 2008, 01:37:59 PM »
Thank you for the fascinating information on Buddy Moss! Now I understand why some of Mitchell's recordings of Moss are under two minutes long. Buddy seems to have been a really difficult character to deal with. I'm going to check out Volume 2 of his stuff on Document. I already own the Biograph disc, which is fantastic. It's a shame he wasn't friendlier to whites who wanted to record him, like Josh White and McTell were.
"There ain't no Heaven, ain't no burning Hell. Where I go when I die, can't nobody tell."

http://www.hardluckchild.blogspot.com/

Offline oddenda

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Re: Buddy Moss
« Reply #35 on: October 12, 2008, 07:24:30 PM »
Doc -

          You are spot on there; as I wrote, Buddy was his own worst enemy - all his life, sadly. BUT HE WAS SO DAMN GOOD!

Spike -

          Yup, that's the guitar. I wonder who bought it? Hope it has a good home and is used properly.

yrs,
     Peter B.

Offline doctorpep

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Re: Buddy Moss
« Reply #36 on: October 13, 2008, 09:20:58 AM »
How much of the guitar playing on "Atlanta Blues Legend" was handled by Mr. Moss, and how much by Jeff Espina (or is he the harmonica player on the album?)? I have my disc at home and I'm at my university now, so I can't check. At any rate, that's one awesome album!
"There ain't no Heaven, ain't no burning Hell. Where I go when I die, can't nobody tell."

http://www.hardluckchild.blogspot.com/

Offline oddenda

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Re: Buddy Moss
« Reply #37 on: October 14, 2008, 12:33:42 AM »
Dear Doc -

          Jeff Espina was/is a harp player... all the guitar on the 60s Columbia session was by Buddy. It probably came about because Buddy went to hear Josh White in Atlanta and White told John Hammond about Buddy (as it was explained to me by Buddy). Interesting that the Moss/White duo was a studio creation only back in the day - they both happened to be recording around the same time, played within the same "tradition" and worked out very nicely, indeed. They only met in NYC and only played together on record! Buddy was a professional when it came to his music - sadly, that didn't slop over in his inter-personal relationships with Blacks and Whites. HE WAS SO DAMN GOOD. And recordings don't tell the half of it, though I wonder if The National Folk Festival has tapes of his performances there. Buddy was "the man" from 1930 - 1935 with regard to sales of Piedmont blues records (along with Josh) - Blind Boy Fuller, the great Piedmont popularizer, listened to Moss' records, as well as White's (copying "So Sweet, So Sweet" from Josh, open tuning and all).

          Josh White is looked down upon by many because of his "folk music" career and White audience later in life, but he was a seriously liked Black music star in the early 30s, VERY influential. Read Elijah Wald's book about him.

yrs,
     Peter B.

Offline doctorpep

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Re: Buddy Moss
« Reply #38 on: October 15, 2008, 07:48:16 AM »
Thanks for the information. Literally ALL of the guitar on the Biograph cd of Buddy Moss is played by Buddy? In "Betty And Dupree" and "Every Day Seems Like Sunday" I could SWEAR that I hear two guitars.

Yes, I know all about Josh White. I read Elijah Wald's biography of him and cried towards the end. Elijah is a great writer and Josh White was a wonderful human being. He was a credit to humanity and to America. When we look up "American Dream" or "determination" in the dictionary, we should see a picture of Mr. White. I also own "Free And Equal Blues" (the dvd available from www.guitarvideos.com). I don't care what the "Purists" say; White was one of the greatest singers and guitar players this country has ever seen. He was capable of doing everything from "Jelly, Jelly" to "Danny Boy". Simply breathtaking!
"There ain't no Heaven, ain't no burning Hell. Where I go when I die, can't nobody tell."

http://www.hardluckchild.blogspot.com/

Offline Pan

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Re: Buddy Moss
« Reply #39 on: October 15, 2008, 08:54:33 AM »
FWIW, looking at my CD liner notes, it appears that tracks 1 - 7 were previously unreleased, and include also a 2nd guitar player who is rather mysteriously called "J.J".

I have hand scribbled to my liner notes "J.J. = John Jackson",  but unfortunately I simply can't remember where I got this information. :(

Lets' hope somebody else here knows.

The tracks are:

1. Hurry Home

2. Red River

3. Pushin' It

4. Comin' Back

5. How I Feel Today

6. That'll Never Happen No More

7. Oh Lawdy Mama

According to the liner notes, the tracks were recorded in the same year, in 1966, if I'm not mistaken.


Pan

Edited to correct the year of the recording, which was 1966, not 1965, as has been already said in this thread by dj on p. #2.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2008, 02:14:39 PM by Pan »

Offline uncle bud

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Re: Buddy Moss
« Reply #40 on: October 15, 2008, 09:04:34 AM »
I have hand scribbled to my liner notes "J.J. = John Jackson",  but unfortunately I simply can't remember where I got this information. :(

Lets' hope somebody else here knows.

Hi Pan. It may have been here on Weenie. I think we've mentioned this before but could be wrong. I believe the Penguin Guide to Blues Recordings states that J.J. is indeed John Jackson.

Offline dj

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Re: Buddy Moss
« Reply #41 on: October 15, 2008, 09:14:56 AM »
Quote
It may have been here on Weenie.

Indeed it was.  See page 2 of this thread.

Offline Pan

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Re: Buddy Moss
« Reply #42 on: October 15, 2008, 02:03:38 PM »
Quote
It may have been here on Weenie.

Indeed it was.  See page 2 of this thread.

I suspected that and should have known!  :D And re-read the thread! :P

Thanks guys!

Pan

Offline Stuart

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Re: Buddy Moss
« Reply #43 on: October 15, 2008, 05:05:07 PM »

Offline oddenda

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Re: Buddy Moss
« Reply #44 on: November 04, 2008, 06:10:56 AM »
To bring it back to subject, Buddy may have been a p.i.t.a. and difficult, but he was an incredible guitarist and singer - would that he had been different, but he wasn't. He was THAT good! Just listen to the recordings, especially the session he did with Josh White. He WAS a contender!

Peter B.

 


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