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The blues - that is a feeling that makes you feel very bad. The blues'll give you sickness - from there's a pain you've never had. Now here's the way the blues go - it'll jump on you early in the morning. It'll worry you 'til you go to sleep. Then after you fall to sleep, you get to dreamin' them bad old dreams and it give you nothing but the bad old midnight creeps - Lightnin' Hopkins', spoken intro to Blues Is A Feeling

Author Topic: Man sitting by Preacher while everyone else stands- 1920s-(Patton?)  (Read 7949 times)

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Offline Randy Meadows

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Re: Man sitting by Preacher while everyone else stands- 1920s-(Patton?)
« Reply #45 on: January 12, 2013, 07:14:38 AM »
I zoomed in and the cross seems to be in line with a rip or tear in the photo.

Notice the big lady in white looking out of the right window...
« Last Edit: January 12, 2013, 07:17:07 AM by RSKKZ- Randy Meadows »
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Offline Johnm

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Re: Man sitting by Preacher while everyone else stands- 1920s-(Patton?)
« Reply #46 on: January 12, 2013, 07:19:35 AM »
There's little point in conjecturing about whether Charlie Patton is in the photo until it is established where the photograph was taken.  It could have been taken in Florida or Iowa or any number of other places that would make Patton's presence implausible or impossible.  It seems the first order of business is to ascertain where the picture was taken.

Offline Randy Meadows

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Re: Man sitting by Preacher while everyone else stands- 1920s-(Patton?)
« Reply #47 on: January 12, 2013, 07:27:41 AM »
I know where and about when it was taken. And I believe I know who took it...

Before I even posted it here, I was in contact with relatives of the photo from the area.
They are talking to the old folks about it now... to try to gain any info on it...

Ill let everyone know if I can gain more info...
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Offline Stumblin

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Re: Man sitting by Preacher while everyone else stands- 1920s-(Patton?)
« Reply #48 on: January 12, 2013, 07:59:20 AM »
It's certainly an interesting photo, Randy. Thanks for starting this discussion.
The larger scale photo has Semmes Chapel, Michigan in its file name, is there any known Patton/Michigan connection?
I'm inclined, along with earlier contributors to this thread, to think that the chap in the photo is too tall to be Charlie Patton, but at this point I remain agnostic.
Please let us know your research findings as soon as poss.
Cheers.

Offline Randy Meadows

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Re: Man sitting by Preacher while everyone else stands- 1920s-(Patton?)
« Reply #49 on: January 12, 2013, 08:08:18 AM »
According to Wiki:
Michigan City is a community in Benton County, Mississippi. It is located along Mississippi Highway 7 in north central Benton County, just south of the Tennessee state line, approximately three miles north of U. S. Route 72. Michigan City has a post office, with the ZIP code of 38647.[1]. The nearly abandoned Mississippi Central Railroad, which is used only rarely for freight traffic, runs through the city. Michigan City is bounded by Grand Junction, Tennessee, to the north, Lamar, to the south, Hopewell, to the east, and Early Grove to the west.

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Offline Prof Scratchy

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Re: Man sitting by Preacher while everyone else stands- 1920s-(Patton?)
« Reply #50 on: January 12, 2013, 08:51:53 AM »
There's a Sims Chapel Road in Michigan City (actually in the surrounding countryside) which you can view on Google Earth. Still has a chapel on it.

Offline Cleoma

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Re: Man sitting by Preacher while everyone else stands- 1920s-(Patton?)
« Reply #51 on: January 12, 2013, 09:04:52 AM »
This is a fascinating thread, whether or not it's really Charley Patton!

Offline Slack

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Re: Man sitting by Preacher while everyone else stands- 1920s-(Patton?)
« Reply #52 on: January 12, 2013, 09:28:42 AM »
There's a Sims Chapel Road in Michigan City (actually in the surrounding countryside) which you can view on Google Earth. Still has a chapel on it.

If that is the same Chapel -- it looks like they've added on.  :D 

Too bad Google has not gotten around to the Street Views for rural Mississippi!

Offline Randy Meadows

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Re: Man sitting by Preacher while everyone else stands- 1920s-(Patton?)
« Reply #53 on: January 12, 2013, 09:57:33 AM »
Speaking of tall!...
Look at the man with his hand on the pole.... left side
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Offline Mr.OMuck

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Re: Man sitting by Preacher while everyone else stands- 1920s-(Patton?)
« Reply #54 on: January 12, 2013, 10:02:35 AM »
How about this scenario; the man is white, the woman on his lap a beloved servant and this is the dedication of a Church that he has put up the money for, after being asked for a contribution by said beloved servant. I blew up his face to 3000dpi which unfortunately is way too large to post, but his hair appears to be light, his features Caucasian. I should add that the tradition of "Donor" pictures
goes back to pre renaissance times.
The big question here would have to be the likelihood of a white man being photographed with a black woman on his knee. On the one hand one would imagine that it would violate local conventions, on the other hand there is an implicit paternalistic-ownership aspect to the situation that might be seen as the benevolent benefactor singling out the reason for his generosity and setting her apart for praise within the community?
Or its an integrated wedding. Maybe he's the white Bishop of this particular denomination with one of his "children" on his knee?
« Last Edit: January 12, 2013, 10:16:54 AM by Mr.OMuck »
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Offline Randy Meadows

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Re: Man sitting by Preacher while everyone else stands- 1920s-(Patton?)
« Reply #55 on: January 12, 2013, 10:15:48 AM »
Ill Post the most accurate that I have below:
This is an exact scan. I haven't done any actions ie lightened, darkened, cropped, etc...



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Offline Mr.OMuck

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Re: Man sitting by Preacher while everyone else stands- 1920s-(Patton?)
« Reply #56 on: January 12, 2013, 10:26:37 AM »
In any of the scenarios I've described, there surely would have been some mention in the local press which probably also accounts for this photo. Visiting Bishop, Big White Church donor,
both would be newsworthy in a small town paper or even a largish regional paper.
 
My loathings are simple: stupidity, oppression, crime, cruelty, soft music.
Vladimir Nabokov (1899 - 1977)

http://www.youtube.com/user/MuckOVision

Offline Slack

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Re: Man sitting by Preacher while everyone else stands- 1920s-(Patton?)
« Reply #57 on: January 12, 2013, 10:56:03 AM »
I think it's a big assumption to say he is white, mixed race is more likely - which for all practical purposes would be considered black.  Not to suggest Patton again  :P , but his features suggest , and not uncommon in that part of the country - part Indian, part black.  Or maybe a "high yeller".

Offline harriet

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Re: Man sitting by Preacher while everyone else stands- 1920s-(Patton?)
« Reply #58 on: January 12, 2013, 11:02:41 AM »
Would a bible from that period have "Holy Bible" on it?

 I also noticed the man sitting looks lighter but I thought it was the forhead angle and muscles above his brows hitting the sun that produced that effect as his hand seems somewhat consistent in color with those around him.

Offline Mr.OMuck

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Re: Man sitting by Preacher while everyone else stands- 1920s-(Patton?)
« Reply #59 on: January 12, 2013, 12:00:35 PM »
The EARS have it! I traced the right ears in the famous paramount Patton photo and on the seated man in the group picture. Here are the results.
My loathings are simple: stupidity, oppression, crime, cruelty, soft music.
Vladimir Nabokov (1899 - 1977)

http://www.youtube.com/user/MuckOVision

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