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Author Topic: Man sitting by Preacher while everyone else stands- 1920s-(Patton?)  (Read 8078 times)

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Offline uncle bud

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Re: Man sitting by Preacher while everyone else stands- 1920s-(Patton?)
« Reply #135 on: January 24, 2013, 11:40:46 AM »
Randy presented an interesting photo, people had lots of fun speculating about it, but if real research is to continue on the photo (rather than the random opinions of a bunch of people on the internet) then Bruce, who signed his name, is exactly right - contact with the people in the town who may have had family or friends or colleagues there who could shed real light on the event and the people in attendance is what is required.

We're not talking about something going on here that is on the level of the wars between the old school blues researchers. Just that this thing has been taken as far as it's going to go with online discussion and more actual legwork is required to find out the truth. And we're certainly not talking Copernicus or Newton - this is not a new way of seeing the world, just a photo that needs to be ID'd with very basic and standard legwork (that is time-consuming, difficult and often not fruitful). C'mon.

If the intent is ultimately to publish, then the demands that the research be based on facts and not speculation are going to be a lot more stringent than those found in this thread. I would hope researchers who would like to publish understand that.

Offline misterjones

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Re: Man sitting by Preacher while everyone else stands- 1920s-(Patton?)
« Reply #136 on: January 24, 2013, 11:51:56 AM »
I know where and about when it was taken. And I believe I know who took it...

Before I even posted it here, I was in contact with relatives of the photo from the area.
They are talking to the old folks about it now... to try to gain any info on it...

Ill let everyone know if I can gain more info...

You are being a bit cagey about the source of the photo, which I think is fine if you want to closely guard your research so that someone doesn't get the jump on your find.  At least one other person at this site has acted in a similar manner.  But, as I said, I find this entirely understandable.  But it is a bit frustrating to talk about the photo in such a vacuum and focus simply on (at this point) uninformative (or marginally informative) visual speculations.  Perhaps it would be better if a hold is put on the inquiry until you feel as though you can give us a bit more information apart from the photo itself.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2013, 11:55:17 AM by misterjones »

Offline wreid75

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Re: Man sitting by Preacher while everyone else stands- 1920s-(Patton?)
« Reply #137 on: January 24, 2013, 11:55:35 AM »
or we could all (all sides here!) just play nice :)  Voicing skepticism does not need to be done harshly nor does is need to be accepted defensively.  Boards are for discussion. 

Offline Stuart

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Re: Man sitting by Preacher while everyone else stands- 1920s-(Patton?)
« Reply #138 on: January 24, 2013, 11:58:04 AM »
They should always publish their findings, they should do solid work & if they venture into the academic arena of exegesis or commentary they have to be big boys & girls & be upheld to a standard. Is this not a basic tenant of scholarship?

There is also the process of getting your work to where you are comfortable with it and feel that it is ready for publication. This usually means getting tough and honest crit from your friends and colleagues. As the old saying goes, your harshest critics are your best friends.

Richard Feynman was famous for saying, "The easiest person to fool  is yourself."  I'll follow with the commonplace, "So don't believe everything you think." Feynman also said that we start by guessing. And then we move to hypothesis testing.

Randy posted the photo for feedback, which he has received. He can critically evaluate the feedback and proceed on as he considers appropriate.

Offline wreid75

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Re: Man sitting by Preacher while everyone else stands- 1920s-(Patton?)
« Reply #139 on: January 24, 2013, 12:24:50 PM »
A few years ago I found a physician (almost 100 yrs old) who worked for a specific hospital in the 1930s.  Previous research showed that a particular blues singer was at that hospital while this physician was there.  The particular musician only received the medical attention due to his veteran status.  Now he didn't remember the musician but he did work on the hallway where the African Americans were staying.  He explained in great detail the difference in treatment that the black patients received compared to the white patients.  He spoke about all kinds of things that really shed light onto the lives of sick African Americans in the South.  At the end of the meeting he said that he didn't want his name attached to anything he said.  I contacted Dr. Evans and asked him if it would be well received if I couldn't site my source.  He said yes that that is not that unusual but other people told me that the information would be raked over the coals and disregarded by too large an audience to make it worth my time and to try to get him to go on the record.  I would rather kill the article I was writing than harass an old man so I killed it.

Online Johnm

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Re: Man sitting by Preacher while everyone else stands- 1920s-(Patton?)
« Reply #140 on: January 24, 2013, 12:31:04 PM »
Hi all,
Posting research publicly (and especially research in progress) is like posting musical performances publicly--you have to be prepared to take your lumps along with positive comments.  To the extent that there has been criticism of the research it has not been intemperate or impolite--rather, it has been reality based, which is to say that it centers around the simple fact that it is premature to make guesses about who might or might not be in the picture before it has even been established when and where the photograph was taken.  Until that information is nailed down, all the conjecture pertaining to different people being in the picture is pointless, and gains us nothing in the way of real knowledge, just a little titillation depending on how credulous you are.  This conjecture about historically recognizable persons in the photo has gone on long enough.  There's nothing more to say along those lines until a verified place and date have been established for the photo.  And this, incidentally, is where the real research comes in:  there's a big difference between simply finding an interesting photo and tracking down where it was taken, the day it was taken, the occasion the photo commemorated and who was in attendance, etc.  That is WORK.
If there is concern about work being questioned, the best way to avoid having work questioned is to anticipate the questions and to have established the answers before the work is made public.  As long as there are unanswered questions that speak to issues of authenticity of information, people who are really interested in the subject will be asking them, you can be sure of that--and it's not because they're mean or impolite.  It's because they want to know the truth and understand what it takes to get at the truth.
All best,
Johnm
   

Offline Slack

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Re: Man sitting by Preacher while everyone else stands- 1920s-(Patton?)
« Reply #141 on: January 24, 2013, 12:39:05 PM »
Thanks Johnm, very well put. 

We are indeed interested in research done and released in a professional manner. Research released prematurely based on conjecture and in titillation, not so much.  It is, as you point out, ultimately a waste of everyone's time.

Offline turn_coat

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Re: Man sitting by Preacher while everyone else stands- 1920s-(Patton?)
« Reply #142 on: January 24, 2013, 01:20:59 PM »
It'd be really great if this is Patton in the photo.  Some research is going to have to be done to prove or disprove the claim.  I can a see semblance of Patton in the man in question.
I was immediately on the skeptical side of this speculation simply because Patton wasn't the sort of person to be going to church.

Offline Stuart

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Re: Man sitting by Preacher while everyone else stands- 1920s-(Patton?)
« Reply #143 on: January 24, 2013, 01:26:46 PM »
I contacted Dr. Evans and asked him if it would be well received if I couldn't site my source.  He said yes that that is not that unusual but other people told me that the information would be raked over the coals and disregarded by too large an audience to make it worth my time and to try to get him to go on the record...

You should have followed David's advice, noting in your article that the source wished to remain anonymous and that you were ethically bound to respect his wishes. You could have had an impartial third party be present at the interview with your informant. S/he could then attest to the veracity of your source in the event that your were accused of fabricating sources and/or information.

Henry Louis (Skip) Gates, Jr. has a similar account of the medical treatment he received as a child that left him with a limp. Thus, your source's account would not be taken as singular.

A faint heart never won a fair maiden.

Offline Randy Meadows

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Re: Man sitting by Preacher while everyone else stands- 1920s-(Patton?)
« Reply #144 on: January 24, 2013, 01:32:50 PM »
Ya'll can think what ya want about the photo and my research.......
I appreciate those who understand...
To the others, not so much... I'm not trying to ruin old reputations, just trying to get as much new and more concise MS Delta Blues info out to the world as I can.... while I can...
That does involve critics and opposing views.... Im fine with that.

But don't think every time ya'll type something that thunder strikes and the world comes to attention...

I do what I do and I think the good outweighs the bad.
Being from Mississippi and In Mississippi makes all the difference in the world when it comes to MS Delta Blues research...

If you wanna say stuff but not let anyone look at your stuff, well that reflects more on you....
So, with that said... I'm not gonna defend every little thing here...

Like I said ... I do what I do...gonna keep on doing it too.... to the BEST of my ability.
As honestly and objective as possible.....
randymeadows@ymail.com
luvthatzeppelin on Youtube

Offline yogi

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Re: Man sitting by Preacher while everyone else stands- 1920s-(Patton?)
« Reply #145 on: January 24, 2013, 01:35:00 PM »
 It is, as you point out, ultimately a waste of everyone's time.
[/quote]

Of course research must be tested and critisised but that's not the point. The point is that some of the paricipants in this discussion tries to stop the conversation.
 Yogi

Offline Slack

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Re: Man sitting by Preacher while everyone else stands- 1920s-(Patton?)
« Reply #146 on: January 24, 2013, 01:45:10 PM »
Quote
Of course research must be tested and critisised but that's not the point. The point is that some of the paricipants in this discussion tries to stop the conversation.

The point is we haven't gotten to the "research" part yet.  We've got a posted photo, which is available on ancestry.com, and a pure guess that it might be Patton.  That's it.

This forum comes by it's skepticism honestly.  A number of us have been running a public internet forum for over 10 years.  I can assure you, we are nobody's fools.

Offline yogi

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Re: Man sitting by Preacher while everyone else stands- 1920s-(Patton?)
« Reply #147 on: January 24, 2013, 02:05:03 PM »
Yes, I agree with you, Slack but shouldn't this thread be alowed to continue regardless of how serious or valid it is?
 Yogi

Offline Slack

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Re: Man sitting by Preacher while everyone else stands- 1920s-(Patton?)
« Reply #148 on: January 24, 2013, 02:10:32 PM »
Quote
Yes, I agree with you, Slack but shouldn't this thread be alowed to continue regardless of how serious or valid it is?

Everybody's still posting, nobody's locked it! 

Offline jrn

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Re: Man sitting by Preacher while everyone else stands- 1920s-(Patton?)
« Reply #149 on: January 24, 2013, 02:59:40 PM »
Randy posted the photo. We all enjoyed speculating. Now the real work begins. Most here seem to agree on this. Why can't we assume that this was his intent all along? I get the impression he was just wanting opinions on wether or not we thought it could be Patton, or if the photo was historically significant, BEFORE he proceeded. That sounds reasonable enough to me. Just a thought.   Jason
Quitman, Mississippi

Tags: Charlie Patton  
 


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