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Author Topic: Charlie Patton's Guitar Style--Queries and Tips  (Read 47409 times)

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Ignatznochops

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Charlie Patton's Guitar Style--Queries and Tips
« on: January 04, 2005, 11:57:29 AM »
I think there's supposed to be a Bm7 chord in "Shake It and Break It", but in what position? I can't get it to sound right...

Joe
« Last Edit: October 30, 2012, 06:26:12 PM by Johnm »

Offline frankie

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Re: Shake it Break it Bm7
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2005, 12:07:52 PM »
Shake it Break It is in the key of F.  The chords CP uses are all played in 1st position:

F (brief detour to F6)
Bflat6
C7

I've occasionally seen the Bflat6 described as Gm7, but the chord in question sounds more right to me as a IV chord than a ii chord - that would pull more strongly to the V chord, I think, but what the hell do I know?

Online Johnm

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Re: Shake it Break it Bm7
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2005, 04:19:37 PM »
Hi,
Just to add on to what Frank said, which is right on, the B flat 6 employed by Charlie Patton in "Shake It And Break It" is the same fingering that Papa Charlie Jackson used in a lot of his tunes in F and B flat:  Index fretting the root of the B flat chord at the first fret of the 5th string, and ring finger barre fretting the 4th, 3rd, 2nd and 1st strings at the third fret.  I would also agree that it sounds more like a IV6 chord in root position than a ii minor7 chord with its third in the bass.
All best,
Johnm

Offline a2tom

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Re: Shake it Break it Bm7
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2005, 05:46:34 AM »
the same fingering that Papa Charlie Jackson used in a lot of his tunes in F and B flat: Index fretting the root of the B flat chord at the first fret of the 5th string, and ring finger barre fretting the 4th, 3rd, 2nd and 1st strings at the third fret.

Ouch - I thought that sounded difficult, and then I tried it, and guess what, it is.  I'll have to stengthen up the hand some to get that (I have always hated barre chords, and then you throw a ring finger barre at me!).  Out of curiosity, did either Jackson or Patton switch this B flat 6 to a barre F?  Or were they still changing to the blues standard thumbed F? 

tom

Offline frankie

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Re: Shake it Break it Bm7
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2005, 06:02:30 AM »
I dunno how PCJ or CP played it, but when I play that chord, I wrap my thumb around to grab the 6th and 5th strings at the 1st fret.?That makes the change to the F chord much more straightforward, in my opinion, although it probably presents fingering difficulties all its own for someone else.

I think it's unlikely that either of those guys would have used a barre F.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2005, 10:27:53 AM by Johnm »

Offline andrescountryblues

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Re: Shake it Break it Bm7
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2005, 07:59:17 AM »
Hi, Im new in this forum. Im a countryblues fan from Argentina, and I've been reading some really interesting post here.
I really think that Patton play this with a capo on the fifht fret playing the C position sounding in F. The progression would go G7-C-G7-C-F-C-G7-C.
I dont have the song to listen it here but thats what I think it goes. Try it.

                                                                                              Andres

Offline Slack

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Re: Shake it Break it Bm7
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2005, 08:10:17 AM »
Welcome Andres!

Online Johnm

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Re: Shake it Break it Bm7
« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2005, 09:38:57 AM »
Hi Andres,
Patton was definitely playing out of an F position.  In the scheme you suggest the pitch of the sixth string, first fret is not available, due to the capo placement.  It is awkward in F, but that's where he played it.
All best,
Johnm

Yves

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Re: Shake it Break it Bm7
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2005, 10:16:06 PM »
I play this song in F position for years and never thought about using a capo and change the key.

It is quite easy to play the Bb just doing a barre chord with your ring finger
I just use F - C7 and this Bb and I think it works.
It is probably a little bit more difficult with the right hand work if you want to bang the body of the guitar at the same time as you fingerpick the strings
Obviously needs a little bit of practice but very much enjoying ... when you reach the goal
Try to avoid to dig a hole in the body of the guitar if you use banjo fingerpicks...

All the best

Yves "the froggy backdoorman" 

Patton Lives!

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Charley Patton - A Spoonful...
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2005, 10:31:57 PM »
I want to keep it short...

Any info. on "Spoonful Blues"?  I know it's a "slide tune" and all, but what about the tuning that he's using on it?  Also, could someone tab the chords out or something?  I have trouble hearing what he's doing.

Offline mr mando

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Re: Charley Patton - A Spoonful...
« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2005, 04:54:39 AM »
It's in Vestapol (open D or E), and it starts with the slide across the 12th fret going down to the 9th for the pick up phrase. the chord progression is roughly VI-II-V-I (9th - 2nd - 7th - open and 12th fret).

Offline GerryC

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Re: Charley Patton - A Spoonful...
« Reply #11 on: September 12, 2005, 03:35:54 AM »
You'll find A Spoonful tabbed out [and with standard notation and lyrics] in Woody Mann's excellent compendium 'Bottleneck Blues Guitar' [Oak Publications 1996].It also contains Patton's High Sheriff Blues and many other goodies by such members of the great and good as Tampa Red, Son House and Kokomo Arnold. I bought my copy from www.musicroom.com quite recently, so it's still in print.

Cheerily,

Gerry C
I done seen better days, but I'm puttin' up with these...

Offline uncle bud

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Charlie Patton's Guitar Style--Queries and Tips
« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2006, 06:57:25 PM »
Branching off from the Introductions thread where Cheapfeet was asking about Charley Patton and Tommy Johnson licks in C, specifically in Down the Dirt Road Blues and Boogaloosa Woman/Morning Prayer.

Cheapfeet, the riff I linked to in the other thread ( see riff here: http://weeniecampbell.com/yabbse/index.php?amp;Itemid=83&topic=1257.msg9276#msg9276) occurs as a quick roll (and-a-2 and-a-3 and-a-4 and 1) at the very end of the form of Dirt Road. I think we?re talking about different parts. Tommy Johnson doesn?t play anything like this that I hear. He does do a riff that?s very similar to another part of Down the Dirt Road though.

In Boogaloosa Woman/Morning Prayer, Johnson seems to be doing something a little trickier though. I?ll have to listen more to be sure but:

I?m hearing him fret the low G (6th string, 3rd fret) with a wraparound thumb, hammering on the 2nd string from the 4th fret to the 5th and getting the open E string at the same time, then getting the high G (1st string, 3rd fret), back to 2nd string 4th fret hammer to 5th with the open E, 3rd string 5th fret, 3rd string open, then pinching the 4th string at the 3rd fret and 2nd string 1st fret (essentially a suspension) and resolving to a pinch of the 4th string 2nd fret and 2nd string 1st fret. Then hitting a low G again, instead of a C on the 5th string as one might expect. Phew. Some things cry out for tab. He?s playing a lot with those lower strings in the tune. It?s very cool.

description above and tab below corrected to reflect changes suggested by Pan

-----0---3--0------------------------------
-----4h5----4h5--------1---1---------------
----------------5--0-----------------------
-----------------------3---2---------------
-------------------------------------------
--3----------------------------3-----------


Patton plays something like this:

--------3---------------------------------
-----4w----4w---------------------------
--------------5--0-----0-----------------
---------------------3---2---------------
---------------------------------3-------
-----------------------------3-----------

Make any sense?
« Last Edit: March 14, 2006, 07:58:52 AM by uncle bud »

Offline Pan

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Re: Patton and Tommy Johnson licks in C
« Reply #13 on: March 14, 2006, 03:47:26 AM »
Hi Uncle Bud

About that Tommy Johnson lick: I'm hearing the Eb note (2nd strg. 4th fret) being hammered to E (5th fret) while the open 1st strg. E is played at the same time, creating a minor second dissonance that is then solved into unison. This is repeated IMO after the high G note. This could also be played as a bend, but that would be trickier to do. What do you think?

Yours

Pan

Offline uncle bud

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Re: Patton and Tommy Johnson licks in C
« Reply #14 on: March 14, 2006, 07:42:38 AM »
Hi Pan - I listened again and you're right. I think it's a hammer to the E as you suggest, not a bend. Nice catch. It means a teeny bit more of a stretch for the fingers but still within reach. One thing that's tricky about the overall riff is TJ doesn't just thump once on the low G and then let it go. It really rings, so you have to hold on to it tight while getting the rest. I'll correct the tab above. Thanks!

Tags: Charlie Patton