Topic: What I've learned recording myself (so far)

[a2tom]

I am not trying to be coy with these threads on recording yourself - my unabashed intention is to hopefully stimulate lurkers and non-song-posting members to take the plunge and start recording and posting their CB playing.? I think the Back Porch can be a really vibrant place, but it won't if a new MP3 only shows up once every couple of months.

Anyway, here's what I've learned in the past week or two:


Lesson #1:? I'm not as bad as I thought I was.

I'm really putting it out there, since inevitably this will sound like bragging/self promotion.? But it isn't, it's an important point, and part of why recording is proving so fun.? I've heard others make it over at Stefan Grossman's forum too.? You get a very different perspective listening to your playing from the "other side of the guitar".? It has been gratifying to hear that by playing some of the "simple" country blues patterns and such that I can make some toe-tapping sounds.? I always figured my playing sounded like what it is - some square middle-aged scientist musician hack trying to play the blues.? OK, it still sounds like that (Blind Blake I ain't), but maybe that can still be musical too.


Lesson #2:? I'm not as good as I thought I was.

This is why lesson #1 really isn't bragging!? It has also become painfully obvious to me that I am an 80% player.? I almost never play a song 100%, which recording/performance begs for.? That last 20% is _really_ hard.? Playing a 2 or 3 minute song front to back without terminally tripping over my fingers is surprisingly challenging, but obviously important.? I've been thinking about this, and it seems there are two different extremes one might take (aside from the obvious: practice practice practice).? I am very interested in hearing how other players - and I know many of you CAN play songs all the way through - have gotten that last 20%.

First, one could work out precise note-for-note detailed arrangements ahead of time and run through them exactly the same way enough times until you can do it without stopping.? The rote approach.? This has merits, and I have started trying to be more precise in what I am playing so that I can actually make a recording all the way through.? A beginner's crutch, or a lifelong solution?

The alernative is to rely on the beat, the groove, to keep the song going.? If the beat - the thumb really - keeps going, it is probably not that a big deal if the melody/fingers miss here and there.? I am curious what others think, but this is what I always hear in the playing of the masters.? I just don't hear them playing fixed arrangements, but moreso letting their fingers play around the basic form of the tune.? As a previous jazz-head, this is, at its core, improvisation.? Indeed, I think the jazz analogy is very strong.? When a Miles Davis or Charlie Parker fumbled a bit, which they did, it wasn't particularly noticable, since the rhythm section kept the groove and the tune moving.? It's just that in the CB, you are ALSO the rhythm section.? Your thumb really needs to live a separate life, doesn't it?


Lesson #3:? Singing while playing is hard.

I'm at the stage of my development as a player where I still tend to focus more on the guitar than the voice, but I really need to start adding the voice more to complete the music.? Only, the guitar inevitably starts to degrade as I sing (see lesson #2).? I know this is common, and I know the answer: practice practice practice.? ?Beyond that, I am considering trying to intentially simplify the guitar picking behind the sung verses at first - even all the way to a simple boom-chick if I have to - so that I can begin to successfully incorporate singing.? What else?


Thanks for reading - I really hope these diaries of my journeys stimulate folks to start recording and posting more tunes.? If nothing else, you'll now know why my first clips are likely to be short and without words...


tom

[uncle bud]

The 80% player point is a good one. This is something I struggle with as well. Part of it for me has to do with moving on to another tune before I'm really finished with the first one (or two or three). I frequently don't really finish a tune, therefore a performance of it inevitably is unfinished as well. I think this is a result of wanting to do too much and a short attention span. Another part of it has to do with instruction. For some of us who've worked with instructional videos, I think one negative outcome of them is that most tunes are never really fully covered. You're taught an intro, a verse, etc but the instruction stops there, often without going into variations or other verses etc. Some cover a lot more than others (John Miller and Ari Eisinger do very detailed breakdowns, most of which are comprehensive). I don't actually expect the whole tune, note for note, but one result is a half-baked repertoire because I don't follow through on the tunes that are taught to the degree I need to in order to get a true performance from them. I don't mean to dismiss instructional material, since I've learned a lot from it. But there is only so much a video or tablature can be expected to do.

This is one of the main reasons I've started figuring out tunes myself more and more. Working on figuring out Blind Lemon songs has been hugely instructive, trying to get all the nuance and variation, the various techniques and weird time. Ditto Charley Patton. When I do this, and with a little extra self-discipline, I find I'm getting more into the 90-95% range with the tunes I work on now. It makes a difference.

Singing is a whole other ball 'o wax...?

[Slack]

All good points Tom, many of us to one degree or another struggle with the same kinds of things you do.

Advice from Paul Rishell:  Practice Whole Songs. (even if you cannot do all things well, practice playing, singing on top, breaks, endings ..as a whole).  He also said that singing is like Ski Jumping, you've got to take some chances to get better.

Simplifying the guitar behind singing is a good technique that even the pros use. 

John Miller's advice - every time you pick up a guitar to play or practice - sing during the session.

Slack's advice: Get a job that requires lots of travel.  Some of the best players at PT have jobs that require a lot of travel.  Instead of hitting the bars in the evening, they go to their hotel rooms and practice!     (IOW, it takes a lot of  time and effort to get good - no way around it )

Cheers,
slack

 

[GhostRider]

Howdy:

I can't believe this but I agree with Both Slack and Uncle Bud.

I think that the 80% thing you mentioned Tom is the key. At the beginning, I think getting to the 80% point is enough, as there are lots of other 80% to learn, and the last 20% of the tune takes 80% of the time.

However as one progresses, I think that going for the extra 20% becomes more important, the feeling of really nailing a song or six, including the words.

And sing at least half the time. You'll be amazed at how much better your voice becomes just by using it. Sing loudly and in your own voice. it will improve faster than your playing.

And Slack is right, get a job with lots of travel. IMC it really helped.

Alex

[frankie]

The rote approach
improvisation

From my perspective, these two approaches tend to run in to one another - they're hardly binary conditions. ?Even so, there are tunes that I play that tend to be more "improvisational" and others that tend to remain static. ?Generally, the more familiar I am with a piece of music, the more likely I am to take chances with it. ?One of the reasons that what I did with Don't Fish In My Sea was a challenge for me is that it required me to get to that "improvisational comfort zone" much more quickly than I normally do. ?It was, indeed, painful - but not without rewards, I suppose. ?After you've been playing a while (and listening, listening, listening), you'll develop more of a feel for what you can make work stylistically inside a given song. ?I can't stress the listening enough. ?In my opinion, when it comes to this music, developing your ear is as integral to development as sight reading is to a classical musician. ?Your ears are your connection to what you want to play - certainly not anything that might be written on a page. ?To that end, you'd be well advised to move away from written notation as early as you can.

Your thumb really needs to live a separate life, doesn't it?

Yes - one thing that really helped me get thumb more active was to focus obsessively over a period of time on just using my thumb and index finger to get the job done. ?I don't think you have to do this for all styles and certainly don't think that everyone should play this way all the time, but I think it's worth the effort to explore the possibilities there, especially as it affects your phrasing and attack.

Singing while playing is hard

Singing is one skill, playing is another skill. ?The singing you hear in CB has as much nuance and intent in it as the guitar playing. ?I've been spending more time working on getting my voice to go where I want it to go and to cop vocal "licks" just like they were guitar licks. ?You have to spend some time away from the guitar just singing - it's fun anyway, so why not? ?One thing I've noticed in coaching my wife and daughter through their process with learning fiddle is that singing can be a powerful way to understand what you want to play. ?If you can sing it, getting it out of the instrument is going to be much, much easier. ?I always have them sing the lines they're trying to play, and do this myself when tryng to suss out difficult guitar parts.

simplify the guitar picking behind the sung verses

Nothing wrong with that approach - there are certainly lots of devices for accompaniment ranging from strumming to counterpoint to bass lines to doubling the melody... ?Simplification in any context can be a powerful expressive tool. ?Not to mention that complex ideas are best understood by trying to break them down first to simple elements, and then trying to figure out how they relate to one another.

Good post, Tom - looking forward to that first tune!

[Slack]

I can't believe this but I agree with Both Slack and Uncle Bud.

Haha.  Alex, stick with us, you cannot go wrong. 

[uncle bud]

I can't believe this but I agree with Both Slack and Uncle Bud.

Haha.? Alex, stick with us, you cannot go wrong.?

For my next trick, I will convince Alex of the benefits of bilingualism...

[GhostRider]

For my next trick, I will convince Alex of the benefits of bilingualism...

Don't push it ,

Alex

[a2tom]

good thoughts all,? I appreciate your comments.

re: the 80% concept.? There are two takes here.? ?First is the idea that one only knows 80% of a song, and that getting all the parts, verses, intros, endings, breaks, lyrics? and variations established is an incrementally difficult part of getting a performance ready song.? I am totally with Uncle Bud that part of my problem in that regard is attention sp

the other notion of 80% is that when I play something - a lick or what have you - that I may play it dead on 80% of the time.? The other 20%, it's just dead.? This makes it hard to play a song through with 10 verses, since you'll miss the lick 2 times!? ?This issue - nailing it every time - becomes exacerbated as you try to make a full tune out of it, because as you start mixing it up, your hands/mind are less certain as to "what comes next".? So, I think the idea of seeing The Whole Song as the unit of learning is an important concept.? I think I learn mostly as bunches of parts nowadays.?

tom

[waxwing]

Hey, Tom, you've elicited some pretty good advice above (from both sides of the political equation <g>) and I would only re-emphasize what Frank said about singing. It takes just as much practice to create a good voice as it does to develop your guitar licks. So, if you've been playing guitar for a while and are thinking you can add the voice on later (I don't mean you in particular, Tom), figure that it's gonna take you about as long again for your voice to catch up with your playing. Start singing now!!! No matter where you are starting from, it will get better and you will come to think of yourself as a singer. Just think what your first attempts at fingerpicking were like. And the involvement it takes to sing will help with that 80% barrier Tom is talking about.
All for now.
John C.

[Johnm]

Hi all,
I'm enjoying hearing folks weigh in here.  I just thought I'd pitch in something I've been thinking about a lot lately, which is to consciously choose to play less, not just behind singing, but in solos, too.  I'm becoming hooked on the appeal of repetition as time goes by.  A quality that always draws me in when I listen to a musician is feeling that he/she has a lot in reserve, so that everything has a "tip of the iceberg" feel.  If a player tries to stick every lick he knows in a single twelve-bar solo pass, too often I get the feeling that I'm watching somebody try to pour five gallons of oil into a quart can.  Save something for the next solo or song, and remember, anything worth saying once in music is worth saying more than once.  Think of how repetitious some of the greatest country blues are:  Son House' "My Black Mama", Rubin Lacey's "Hamhound Crave", et al.  Just something to think about.
All best,
Johnm   

[a2tom]

Lesson #4 - Rhythm is everything

Nothing will make playing sound worse than a jumpy beat.? I have a lot of questions about rhythmic issues in the CB, but for now I'll just drop this as an observation.


Lesson #5 - I play everything too fast

This is really a problem given Lesson #4.? But in fact, I think that is why I play everything too fast.? It makes it SEEM easier to keep a steady beat, but I think that's a fallacy.? ?I need to sit in a corner and repeat the Stefan Grossman mantra "slow and loud, slow and loud...".


Putting all the lessons together so far has led me to start working on something new.? The St. Louis Blues, very familiar words, straightforward melody, sung over the simplest guitar accompaniment I can create.? "slow, with feeling".? We'll see if I can get through an entire CB song...

tom

[frankie]

Hi Tom - I hear you about Lesson #4.  In my experience, the thumb is how you really articulate the rhythm with this kind of music.  It's not going to matter much what flashy stuff is going on under your fingers if you can't hear what the thumb is up to.  The more time you spend learning how to articulate a strong, fat beat with your thumb, the better off you'll be in the long run.  I was just listening to Luke Jordan a few days ago - Pick Poor Robin Clean and Cocaine Blues - I was struck by the fact that *all* the flashy, cool stuff in those tunes is executed with the thumb.  OK, maybe not all, but 99.5%

Re: Lesson #5 - at its best, speed is a byproduct of confidence and accuracy.  At its worst, it's an effect that often gets used to mask other musical deficiencies - poorly articulated rhythm or a dearth of expressive ideas.  Since speed is just about purely physical, it's easy to address it through practice.  To make the musical stuff better, you have to dig deeper and address issues that are less well defined in most cases.  I have a recording of Alberta on the Back Porch somewhere.  Frankly, I fudge the singing over the repeat of the initial line, never really hitting the notes I'm supposed to hit.  The speed of the recording might distract you from the other pitfalls in the performance, but the truth is, if I worked on singing it better, I wouldn't be in such a rush.  Those notes ought to be savored, really, and I'm just rushing past them on my way to the next.  My lesson?  If you know what you're doing, there's no reason to hurry.

[a2tom]

While I can't say the concept of the importance of the thumb is a new idea to me (I recall Stefan Grossman in one lesson played I think it was Louis Collins with only his thumb) Weenie discussion has caused me to really pay attention to my thumb recently.? I have observed that I am dropping, as in omitting, bass notes with my thumb more often than I realized.? Sometimes I do this intentionally, since I think it can get monotonous if the bass is TOO regular.? But I think I have unknowingly been doing it too much and losing some of that pulse that keep the country blues going along.? My more recent work is on trying to improve the consistency and feeling of the bass drive in a couple of tunes.? Two of them are intentionally simplified in the treble/fingers.? My hope is that I'll get back to where I started with guitar - the rock steady alternating bass of Mississippi John Hurt - as a foundation that will allow me to start bringing the voice in effectively.?

If you know what you're doing, there's no reason to hurry.

I love that!? I ought to write it across the face of the guitar.? It reminds me of Rev Gary Davis Walking Dog Blues where he says at the beginning "sometimes you just gotta take your time, know what I'm saying".? In fact, that song is one that I recall when I went back and listened once, that I was amazed at how relaxed the tempo is.? But, then the Rev knew what he was doing!

tom

[frankie]

One thing that (imo) did wonders for me was playing backup for fiddle tunes.  The neat thing about it is that your role is, in fact, very circumscribed.  You *are* the rhythm.  Once I'd done that for a while, I had a much better sense of what it means to articulate the pulse.  I guess it doesn't sound all that interesting to guys that like to play solo guitar, but I still love to do it.