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He was a sinful boy, good-hearted but had no soul. His heart was hard and cold like ice - Willie McTell, Dying Crapshooter's Blues

Author Topic: Oscar "Buddy" Woods  (Read 9122 times)

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Offline Stefan Wirz

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Oscar "Buddy" Woods
« on: February 09, 2008, 10:07:30 AM »
Oscar "Buddy" Woods discography online
Inevitable corrections / additions appreciated  ;)
Stefan

Additional question: Is anybody able to exactly locate "St. Paul's Bottoms' and adjacent "Blue Goose' district in this 1920 Shreveport map ?
« Last Edit: February 09, 2008, 10:16:45 AM by Stefan Wirz »

Offline Rivers

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Re: Oscar "Buddy" Woods
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2008, 02:58:47 PM »
The Leadbelly bio p. 30 says St. Paul's Bottoms was a triangle bordered by Fannin Street, Common Street and the Texas & Pacific railroad tracks. Looking at the full size map on the UT site it's not really a triangle. I guess it's that triangle down to the edge of Cross Bayou. The book goes on to say it was named after the old St. Paul's Methodist Church on Caddo Street, and the Shreveport City Council designated the area the official red light district in Feb 1903.

Re. Blue Goose, it's not in the index but neither is St. Paul's Bottoms. I think it's mentioned in the text somewhere, will delve deeper. It's adjacent to St Paul's, so take your pick. Thanks for the map, very cool!
« Last Edit: February 09, 2008, 03:02:30 PM by Rivers »

Offline waxwing

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Re: Oscar "Buddy" Woods
« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2008, 10:43:22 PM »
Maybe Hunter St. was considered an extension of Fannin St? Then there would be a sort of triangle to the west of Commons, between Fannin/Hunter and the T&P tracks. Blue Goose then might have been the area above Fannin to the east of Commons? Just guessing.

All for now.
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Offline Stefan Wirz

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Re: Oscar "Buddy" Woods
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2008, 05:38:31 AM »
from what I found here: http://www.helloshreveport.com/84000033_Historic.Cfm?StartRow=1 :
St. Paul's Bottoms - Shreveport, LA
Roughly bounded by Western and Pierre Aves., Alston, Christian, Oakland, and Snow Sts.
Shreveport, LA (Caddo County)
Listed in the National Register of Historic Places since October 11, 1984

The 'Legend of Old Blue Goose' at http://www.softdisk.com/comp/loobg/ didn't function, so I searched the Internet archive at http://web.archive.org/web/20030413093856/http://www.softdisk.com/comp/loobg/
Among other info there's a hand-drawn map of that area stating that 'Old Blue Goose' has been "at the corner of Snow and Pickett street"

Tried to localize these areas on the 1920 map on my OBW page - Please correct me if I understodd anything wrong !!!
Stefan

Offline Richard

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Re: Oscar "Buddy" Woods
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2008, 07:43:00 AM »
I'm pretty sure about 4 years ago I found another web site which gave more about about Woods and also mentioned Muscat Hill but in pc crash I lost the link and have never been able to find it again...  >:(

(That's enough of that. Ed)

Offline Rivers

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Re: Oscar "Buddy" Woods
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2008, 08:53:51 AM »
Re. St. Paul's, that seems to be at variance with the Leadbelly text.

* If it was named after the church on Caddo, Caddo is not within your circle.
* One would expect the low lying land ("bottoms", the area that would flood hardest and according to the book "the streets and alleys were muddy") to be closer to Cross Bayou.
* Fannin Street, the heart of it, is not even within the circle.
* My guess from reading about the intent of designating it 'red light': the august city fathers would have been more likely to move it to the edge of town, not the center, since they were trying to impose some respectability on the previous red light area, which the book says was around Strand Street and the point where Cross Bayou joins the Red River. Strand Street is not marked on the map unfortunately.

So I wonder if the book got it wrong, or the other website, the link for which does not work for me?
« Last Edit: February 10, 2008, 09:25:50 AM by Rivers »

Offline Rivers

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Re: Oscar "Buddy" Woods
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2008, 09:20:24 AM »
Here are some more clues from the text:

"The center of the new nightlife was Fannin Street, which began on the east side of the bottoms and ran eight blocks downtown" i.e. northeast.

"At the head of Fannin, where it ran into Cane (now Baker) Street, stood a sumptuous new two-storey house owned by the city's most popular madam, Annie McCune" (you can find Baker at Fannin on the modern map). Googling the name I see a biography of Annie has just been republished, pricey though: http://www.geocities.com/RitzPublications/RitzBookList.html

"At the opposite end of the block on Fannin was another fancy..." (whorehouse, must be heading northeast up Fannin from the other one, my analysis)

..paragraph continues with descriptions of various establishments along Fannin Street.

Wikipedia's Shreveport entry also states that Fannin was "in the Bottoms".
« Last Edit: February 10, 2008, 10:00:05 AM by Rivers »

Offline waxwing

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Re: Oscar "Buddy" Woods
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2008, 10:28:42 AM »
Hmmm, trying to interpret topography from a map without topo lines is tough, but my guess would be that the narrowing of the neck of Cross Bayou would indicate slightly higher ground on either side, i.e. the north east end of Fannin. The broad undeveloped expanse traversed by a straight stretch of railway would probably indicate a raised trackbed crossing an unobstructed marshy area that could have previously extended into the triangle I indicated above, which is to the north of Stefan's oval.

Checking a modern map, Fannin does now include what was Hunter and Baker/Cane is the street where Fannin ended and Hunter began on the old map, right in the middle of the edge of the same triangle, and runs a couple blocks northwest, right into the suspected marsh. Caddo, too, extends a few blocks past Common into the triangle. Perhaps St Paul's was at the corner of Commons and Caddo?

It seems to me the Leadbelly bio is talking about this triangle, but the area may have "migrated" somewhat, over time, and grew to contain a larger area?

Side note - I can't believe that article on Old Blue Goose devotes two paragraphs imagining that Robert Johnson might have walked the streets of Old Blue Goose and quotes lines that have nothing to do with Shreveport?!?!?! Almost destroyed its credibility.

All for now.
John C.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2008, 10:31:15 AM by waxwing »
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Offline uncle bud

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Re: Oscar "Buddy" Woods
« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2008, 10:40:27 AM »
I've got nothing actually useful to add to this thread but all this talk of Blue Goose keeps putting Jesse Babyface Thomas's Blue Goose Blues in my head...

"When you go to Shreveport town,
You will find Blue Goose and it'll tear you down
I'm going down in old Blue Goose, I don't care if I lose"

Offline Rivers

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Re: Oscar "Buddy" Woods
« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2008, 11:02:56 AM »
Hmmm, trying to interpret topography from a map without topo lines is tough, but my guess would be that the narrowing of the neck of Cross Bayou would indicate slightly higher ground on either side, i.e. the north east end of Fannin. The broad undeveloped expanse traversed by a straight stretch of railway would probably indicate a raised trackbed crossing an unobstructed marshy area that could have previously extended into the triangle I indicated above, which is to the north of Stefan's oval.

Wax, check this out:

Offline waxwing

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Re: Oscar "Buddy" Woods
« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2008, 11:10:01 AM »
Right, riv, looks like the sewage treatment plant is right in the middle of my suspected swamp, with the RR running right by it, and "downtown" (where the name Shreveport is) is on higher ground, by the neck of Cross Bayou where it meets the River.

All for now.
John C.
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Offline Stefan Wirz

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Re: Oscar "Buddy" Woods
« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2008, 11:42:02 AM »
"'St. Paul's Bottoms', also known as 'Ledbetter Heights', roughly bounded by Western and Pierre Aves., Alston, Christian, Oakland, and Snow Sts." (http://www.nationalregisterofhistoricplaces.com/LA/Caddo/districts.html).

That swamp area must have extended far to the south: Look at those railroad lines (T. & P.R.R. and Y. & S.P.R.R.) - Seems like they were built right along the swamp region until they meet in the south ...
Stefan

Offline Rivers

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Re: Oscar "Buddy" Woods
« Reply #12 on: February 10, 2008, 11:45:29 AM »
My theory was the triangle apexes were approximately Fannin at Baker in the south, the railroad bridge in the west and some ways down Fannin in the east, with Cross Bayou as the northern edge. According to all other sources.

But then we have the info in Stefan's previous post which seems to be a fairly reputable source  :P

This is really weird, how could they not have included Fannin and Caddo? Maybe the spot marked 'old cemetery' on the old map was where St Pauls Methodist Church was actually sited, not Caddo St as is clearly stated in the Leadbelly book? Not very likely, further searching reveals it was called 'City Cemetery' and then renamed to Oakland Cemetery, no church affiliations mentioned.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2008, 12:04:21 PM by Rivers »

Offline Rivers

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Re: Oscar "Buddy" Woods
« Reply #13 on: February 10, 2008, 12:16:23 PM »
Hey Stefan, we need this book:
http://www.lulu.com/content/196164

This link shows the back cover with a picture of a Leadbelly-like character entertaining!
http://www.ramblehouse.com/redlight.htm
« Last Edit: February 10, 2008, 12:21:22 PM by Rivers »

Offline uncle bud

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Re: Oscar "Buddy" Woods
« Reply #14 on: February 10, 2008, 01:34:23 PM »
I was doing a little searching on Jesse Thomas and came upon a blog with some excerpts of an interview with him, in which he had this to say about Blue Goose:

?Blue Goose?? Jesse smiled a knowing smile. ?Oh that?s a little place here in Shreveport, a little area they used to call the Blue Goose. You remember where the Union railway station used to be? Well that was just the name of that area. Like Mooretown, South Highland, Blue Goose. So I just thought of that ?cause that?s where I stayed when I first came here, and I just ? made up some words, put it on record.?

The full page is here: http://misterhuddie.blogspot.com/2007_10_01_archive.html
« Last Edit: February 10, 2008, 01:35:37 PM by andrew »

Offline waxwing

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Re: Oscar "Buddy" Woods
« Reply #15 on: February 10, 2008, 11:44:56 PM »
Alright, found a map with topo lines.-G- Also has the triangle as I imagined it drawn in.



(Hmm, I see that's a power plant, not a sewage treatment facility.-G-)

Actually it was pointed out by Blueswriter over on BBF in a similar discussion. It is in an excellent article on Boogie Woogie piano Here and is accompanied with the quote from the Leadbelly bio.

Looking closely, you can see a dark topo line which indicates slightly higher ground (200 ft.) all around this triangle, except at the western tip of the triangle and a small finger coming in from the northwest. Also, if you follow Fannin east from the intersection with Commons, you'll see that it crosses 4 topo lines in about two blocks (10 ft increments), so clearly moving in that direction one would be climbing out of a "bottom" area rather quickly, and, in fact, Fannin street seems to cross the crest of the hill at that point, about three blocks north of the Court House (on Stefan's map) which is also on the crest, so I think this would be too much a part of "downtown" to have been included in the "legal" red light district, which apparently was meant to keep the, uh, activity away from the downtown area. But Commons, for two blocks north of the intersection, and Fannin, for two blocks west, as well as parts of Caddo even to the east of Commons for a block, are all in the lowest piece of ground (below 180 ft.) and there is even a strip of slightly higher ground between the bottom and the open marsh area to the north, which to a large extent is at the same elevation as the bottom. Yeah, it musta been muddy.

Stefan, the designation you found is from the 1980s and seems to be more of a tourist area designation than an actual historical one. From the Google satellite map there doesn't appear to be much left for tourists to see in the triangle designated by the Leadbelly bio, altho' I did find this recent pic of some "shotgun shacks" still left on Fannin.


All for now.
John C.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2008, 11:58:50 PM by waxwing »
"People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it."
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Offline Rivers

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Re: Oscar "Buddy" Woods
« Reply #16 on: February 11, 2008, 04:40:27 AM »
Quote from: me
The Leadbelly bio p. 30 says St. Paul's Bottoms was a triangle bordered by Fannin Street, Common Street and the Texas & Pacific railroad tracks.

That works for me Wax. I agree the Historic Places designation may well have been moved south. Gentrification perhaps?

More info on elevations:
From http://ftp.rootsweb.com/pub/usgenweb/la/caddo/history/redriver.txt
IN SHREVEPORT
Elevation of the river gauge 131 feet above the sea level.
Elevation in Post Office yard is 199.8 feet,
Flood stage of Red River is 39 feet.

But there are various figures for this, search for "Red River" "elevation" & Shreveport. Some interesting info on the effects of various flood heights on the city: http://ahps.srh.noaa.gov/ahps2/hydrograph.php?wfo=shv&gage=svpl1
« Last Edit: February 11, 2008, 04:54:23 AM by Rivers »

Offline Stefan Wirz

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Re: Oscar "Buddy" Woods
« Reply #17 on: February 17, 2008, 10:24:31 AM »
the Ever Scanning Bunker Hill has provided scans from the 1978 Paul Oliver notes to Flyright FLY LP 260 "Jerry's Saloon Blues" about the coming about of the LoC recordings of Oscar Woods et al.. I've made a pdf-file out of those scans that can be downloaded either from the Oscar Woods or from the Flyright Records discography or from here.
Stefan

« Last Edit: February 17, 2008, 10:29:05 AM by Stefan Wirz »

Offline Rivers

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Re: Oscar "Buddy" Woods
« Reply #18 on: February 17, 2008, 11:10:25 AM »
That was an interesting read. Lots of good quotes in there too.

Offline Richard

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Re: Oscar "Buddy" Woods
« Reply #19 on: February 19, 2008, 12:30:24 PM »
Excellent, thanks Stefan and BH, we will get to that drink one day  :P
(That's enough of that. Ed)

Offline Bunker Hill

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Re: Oscar "Buddy" Woods
« Reply #20 on: February 19, 2008, 12:55:55 PM »
the Ever Scanning Bunker Hill
Years ago someone wrote to a magazine suggesting I was stuck in a time warp! I much prefer being stuck "ever scanning".  ;)

Keep up the good work.

Offline dj

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Re: Oscar "Buddy" Woods
« Reply #21 on: February 19, 2008, 02:34:13 PM »
Quote
Years ago someone wrote to a magazine suggesting I was stuck in a time warp!

Well... what's wrong with that?  (Unless the magazine was something like "Current Trends In Silicon Chip Design"   :D)

hotdonuts

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Re: Oscar "Buddy" Woods
« Reply #22 on: November 16, 2008, 08:11:49 PM »
Just a quick one for now.  Here's an enlarged photo of Shreveport's St. Paul's Bottoms taken from a 1926 postcard.  Perspective is looking Southwest.  In the bottom left corner, is First Methodist Church at the corner of Sprague Street and Common Street.  The street running from the bottom middle to top left is Travis Street.  The street running from the bottom right to the middle is Fannin Street.  I'll add more information to this conversation later.  Shreveport is my hometown.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/hotdonuts/2456218142/


Offline Slack

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Re: Oscar "Buddy" Woods
« Reply #23 on: November 17, 2008, 06:43:00 AM »
Welcome hotdonuts!

Offline Richard

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Re: Oscar "Buddy" Woods
« Reply #24 on: November 17, 2008, 08:29:10 AM »
Hotdonuts, thanks and some of the other pics on your site are interesting as well  :)
(That's enough of that. Ed)