Topic: Geeshie Wiley's Last Kind Words

[Doc White]

I was reading the old thread for this song hoping I'd get the lyrics - I did, and thank you to those who contributed. I noticed very few discussed how to play it and those that did were a fair way off the mark. It is quite simple to play and get that spooky sound.
The tuning is open Dm DADFAD capoed up one fret (my CD player is a 15 yo Philips and it plays 1/2 tone flat so it's probably open Em)
The spooky tone comes from the way the open bass strings are played against the chords.

If we start with the chord played in the verse it is x0x21x played in an arpeggio. This is xAxGBbx which is a Gm with a 9th in the bass - beautiful chord - jazz players do this stuff all the time. Although you don't play the D strings, don't mute them, let them ring sympathetically - it adds atmosphere.

Back to the intro
This starts with alternate bass on the D strings with a brush on the 3rd and 2nd string. She then moves to and Am7 chord x0540x or if you want to be more correct 70540x. On this chord don't play the open D's as it completely destroys the effect.
Then there is a series of slides on the open top A up to the 5th fret played against the open top D then slides on the F string to the 4th fret played against the open A.
There are some quick passing notes which are 4th fret 3rd string, 2nd fret 3rd string, 3rd fret 4th string open 4th string. And that's about it.

Have a play about with it, it's a great tune and beautifully constructed.
Cheers,
Chris

[Johnm]

Hi Chris,
"Last Kind Word" is not played in cross-note tuning, but in E standard.  It starts in A minor with slides on the B string up to a fifth fret unison with the open first string and on the G string to a fourth fret unison with the open B string.  The remainder of the song rocks between an E chord and the very dark B minor 7 chord, X-2-0-2-0-X.  This is an over-simplification, but the song is played in E standard.  Were the song played in cross-note, you would have no access to the low root of the IV chord (A minor) except at the fifth fret of the sixth string, which makes the whole thing impossible to sound the way Geeshie Wiley did it.
All best,
Johnm

[Doc White]

Hi John,
It can be played in standard but the minor tuning (EBEGBE) is easier. However, I made a major error in my post. I should never do this without a guitar in my hand, Many apologies to those who tried to make it work. The first Am is played with the low E in the bass instead of the B .............0x021x I think this is the low bass note you are referring to.
The dark Bm is also slightly different in the 2 tunings because the way I play it there is no D (I'm playing x0540x) but I can get to the little run a bit easier and make it sound a bit prettier.
Cheers,
Chris

[frankie]

The dark Bm is also slightly different in the 2 tunings because the way I play it there is no D (I'm playing x0540x)

Chris - that chord isn't a Bm7 at all, since the third is omitted entirely.  It may very well be pretty, but it doesn't sound at all like the Bm7 chord used by Geeshie Wiley.  The minor tuning makes it impossible to get that particular sound, since the open 4th string would sound at E (the IV) rather than D.

I understand what you're saying about the bass note underneath the minor IV chord - she does use E (or the fifth relative to the chord) and that's something I think a lot of players get wrong when playing this tune.  In that sense she may be guilty of what I think of as "pathological string omission."  That's just a tongue-in-cheek way of saying that there may not be enough to go on in order to say definitively how a string may be tuned, but that's not enough here to identify the tuning as cross-note.  In fact, the v7 (Bm7) is certainly enough, in my opinion, to identify the tuning as standard (about a half-step low).  That particular combination of notes (B-D-A) just isn't possible in cross-note without fretting hand heroics that would make the tune as played by GW woefully inadvisable.

[Doc White]

Hi Frankie,
You're right. Putting the D in would be a nightmare but I feel the A in that chord is much more prominent (technically the presence of the A makes the chord a Bm9).  I don't think GW plays the D but I can't be sure. What is pretty important in that section is the rhythm she uses to accent the Bm9.
To me the Am7 chord is much more apparent in the Em tuning.
I think the overtones from the open A and D strings in standard tuning when doing the slides do not sound like the record. She hits that bottom E hard without muting when doing those and I only hear the B and E overtones, which you can only get in Em tuning. Still, GW is a very clean player so I could be imagining the harmony.
The other thing that is easier in Em are the simple runs she does throughout. I am taking my main cue from the instrumental section after the "bolted meal" verse when she plays the Bm9 chord. There is a quick descending single note run B A G E which is pretty difficult to play after using the Bm9 chord played in standard tuning but pretty easy in Em.
Still, this is an interesting debate. It's funny how people hear different things in the same song.
Although I tried to get this down note for note so I could see how the song is constructed, the version I am working up for performance will not be.
Cheers,
Chris

[mr mando]

In fact, the v7 (Bm7) is certainly enough, in my opinion, to identify the tuning as standard (about a half-step low).  That particular combination of notes (B-D-A) just isn't possible in cross-note without fretting hand heroics ....

Additionally, the B on the 5th (A) string is hammered on from open to second fret, which is not possible in cross note. One thing that adds to the spookiness IMO is the open G string which seems to resonate during the high e unison slides. There's also a G note in the melody, so the tonality is between major and minor IMO.

[CF]

Strange! I just learned this song . . . was listening to it on a bus trip & I could hear what she was doing . . . I'm playing it in E standard too . . . actually pitched at Eb I think . . . What a wonderful tune this is . . . It's very tricky in it's own way & what I find most difficult is that she keeps her bass going steady throughout which I simply cannot do as I finger pick with only my thumb & forefinger & need my thumb to do the slides on the B & G strings . . . any ideas on how this could be managed with just the thumb & forefinger?   
 

[banjochris]

what I find most difficult is that she keeps her bass going steady throughout which I simply cannot do as I finger pick with only my thumb & forefinger & need my thumb to do the slides on the B & G strings . . . any ideas on how this could be managed with just the thumb & forefinger?   

I play this tune with just two fingers, using my index to play the slides on the B and G strings. You play the first note of the slide and then during the slide you move your finger up to the higher open string and play that. By then your left hand has finished the slide and you've got the unison notes on the two strings. And your thumb is free to keep the bass up.
Chris

[frankie]

I play this tune with just two fingers, using my index to play the slides on the B and G strings.

I play it the same way - Thumb+index, but I play just about everything that way (on the guitar, anyway).

[frankie]

The other thing that is easier in Em are the simple runs she does throughout. I am taking my main cue from the instrumental section after the "bolted meal" verse when she plays the Bm9 chord. There is a quick descending single note run B A G E which is pretty difficult to play after using the Bm9 chord played in standard tuning but pretty easy in Em.

Hi Chris - I don't quite see how the run you've pointed out is either easier or more difficult in cross-note, especially since, with the exception of the final 'E', the fingering is the same.  The Bm7 used in this tune is played in the first position and the run is also totally accessible from first position.  The subtle hammer-on the the Bm7 chord pointed out by Mr. Mando is also only possible with standard tuning.  In fact, I'd go so far as to say that the assumption that an open or altered tuning is being used doesn't really simplify anything in most of the song, and makes the explanation for other parts of the performance (notably the Bm7) very complicated.

If your goal is a performance of your own, then ultimately you have to play to suit yourself...   I think attempting to get inside these playing styles is endlessly rewarding, though - regardless of the 'intent to perform' or whatever.

[frankie]

technically the presence of the A makes the chord a Bm9

Just to be clear here - the presence of the 'A' relative to the tonic 'B' makes the A note the flatted 7th.  The third degree of the chord is minor, and played by GW on the open 4th string.  That makes the chord played by GW a Bm7.  For all intents and purposes, it's a three-note chord (the 'B' on the open second string is redundant) and omits the fifth (it would be F sharp).

The chord you've described - x0540x in cross-note - has the following notes:  B - A - B - B.  This chord has neither a third nor a fifth, so I guess you could describe it as a B7 (no 3rd)...  I'm no theory whiz, but chord names seem to me to be mostly about context and function.

[Doc White]

Hi Freddie,
You are right the A is a flattened 7th (9th??? what was I thinking) and without the 3rd it could be either B7 or Bmin7.
I'm going to record me playing one pass in the Em tuning tonight and post it on the forum so you can hear what I am trying to inadequately convey with words.
Cheers,
Chris

[JimNJBlues]

I think the overtones from the open A and D strings in standard tuning when doing the slides do not sound like the record. She hits that bottom E hard without muting when doing those and I only hear the B and E overtones, which you can only get in Em tuning. Still, GW is a very clean player so I could be imagining the harmony.

  Ahhhhh.. but those old recordings can play tricks on you.  Especially when they clip and distort.  I know what you mean, because I find that sometimes my ears 'fill in the blanks,' so to speak, and add notes that aren't really there.  It's a royal pain.

  I've got to say, I know Frank, and the guy's got a great set of ears on him.  If he says the songs in standard tuning, I'd go with that.

[mr mando]

Here's a rough tab that I made when I was young enough to do such things.
I outlined the I chord as minor, but really Geechie hammers the 1st fret, third string repeatedly. The V chord is hammered on each beat while simultaneously striking the strings with your picking hand.

Last Kind Words
Geechie Wiley
Transcribed by mr mando

 |       |       |       |        |       |       |       |        
|--------------------------------|--------------------------------|
|------------------------0-------|--------0---------------0-------|
|------------------------0-------|--------0---------------0-------|
|------------------------2-------|--------2---------------2-------|
|--------------------------------|2---------------2---------------|
|--------------------------------|0---------------0---------------|
 
 |       |       |       |        |       |        
|--------------------------------|----------------|
|----0-------0-------0-------0---|--------0-------|
|2---2---2---2---2---2---2---2---|--------0-------|
|0-------0-------0-------0-------|--------2-------|
|2-------2-------2-------2-------|2---------------|
|--------------------------------|0---------------|
 
 |       |       |       |        |       |       |       |        
|--------------------------------|--------------------------------|
|----0-------0-------0-------0---|--------0---0-----------0---1---|
|2---2---2---2---2---2---2---2---|--------0---0-------2-----------|
|0-------0-------0-------0-------|--------2-----------------------|
|2-------2-------2-------2-------|2---------------2---------------|
|--------------------------------|0---------------0---------------|
 
 |       |       |       |        |       |       |       |        
|--------------------------------|------------------------0-------|
|--------1---------------0---1---|--------1-----------4/5-----4/5-|
|--------2-----------2-----------|--------2-----------------------|
|--------2-----------------------|--------2-----------------------|
|--------------------------------|--------------------------------|
|0---------------0---------------|0---------------0-------0-------|
 
 |       |       |       |        |       |       |       |       |       |        
|0-------0-------0---------------|----------------------------------------0-------|
|----4/5-----4/5---------0-------|0-------0---0-----------0---0-------4/5-----4/5-|
|--------------------3/4-----3/4-|--------0---0-----------0---0-------------------|
|--------------------------------|--------2---------------2-----------------------|
|--------------------------------|----------------2---------------2---------------|
|0---------------0-------0-------|0---------------0---------------0-------0-------|
 
 |       |       |       |        |       |       |       |        
|0-------0-------0---------------|--------------------------------|
|----4/5-----4/5---------0-------|0-----------------------0-------|
|--------------------3/4-----3/4-|----2---0---------------0-------|
|--------------------------------|------------2-----------2-------|
|--------------------------------|--------------------------------|
|0---------------0-------0-------|0---------------0---------------|
 
 |       |       |       |        |       |        
|--------------------------------|----------------|
|----0-------0-------0-------0---|--------0-------|
|2---2---2---2---2---2---2---2---|--------0-------|
|0-------0-------0-------0-------|--------2-------|
|2-------2-------2-------2-------|2---------------|
|--------------------------------|0---------------|
 
 |       |       |       |        |       |       |       |        
|--------------------------------|--------------------------------|
|----0-------0-------0-------0---|--------0---0-----------0---1---|
|2---2---2---2---2---2---2---2---|--------0---0-------2-----------|
|0-------0-------0-------0-------|--------2-----------------------|
|2-------2-------2-------2-------|2---------------2---------------|
|--------------------------------|0---------------0---------------|
 
 |       |       |       |        
|0---0-------0-------------------|
|0---0---2---0-------------------|
|1-------1-----------------------|
|--------2-----------------------|
|--------------------------------|
|0-----------0-------------------|
 

[Michael Kuehn]

Thanks. mr mando. I love this tune, but have never been able to get the right sound in the third bar, as you've tabbed it above. Still can't, but I'm not giving up yet.

Mike