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Author Topic: Slides Pt. 2 + Guitar  (Read 6502 times)

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Offline NotRevGDavis

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Slides Pt. 2 + Guitar
« on: April 22, 2004, 09:09:59 AM »
Hey everyone,
Thanks for all the suggestions and help on my first slide post. Here's an update.

Slides- I tried every slide that would fit over my rather large pinkie and narrowed it down to a Dunlop glass and a Moonslide. I bought the Dunlop but after my lesson traded it for the Moonslide (because of the input from this forum). I only tried it for a couple of minutes but really liked the way it felt- now I need to practice!
I also tried the Martin slide with all the notches and flats it was cool and gave me some ideas on modifying the steel slide I have.
I tried something else before I got to the music store- a 1/2" copper pipe coupler, it fits between my middle knuckle and the tip of my pinkie and is kinda fun to use as sort of a mini slide I'm thinking about modifying it a bit 'cause I can almost finger chords with the tip of the finger.

Guitar- I currently play a Seagull S6+ Cedar and my wife bought me a Martin DM 12 last winter.
Now my next question- I'm thinking of buying an inexpensive Art and Lutherie Folk for a second 6-string guitar for open tunings and blues, do you think this guitar would work or should I look for a reso or something similar? My price range is a bit limited.

Thanks again,
Gary
« Last Edit: December 08, 2004, 09:44:11 PM by uncle bud »
Got the name, still workin' on the licks!

Offline uncle bud

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Re: Slides Pt. 2 + Guitar
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2004, 11:23:38 AM »
The man has GAS.

Gary, Art & Lutherie are made by the same company that makes Seagulls (LaSiDo out of Quebec, Canada), and are their bargain line, which you probably already knew. LaSiDo guitars are generally considered good value for the money. I've looked at Art & Lutherie in the past when trying to find something parlor-sized. I didn't buy but I know as bargain guitars many people are very satisfied with them. Can't hurt to try them at those prices. As for resos, I'm not up-to-date but some of the cheaper ones include Johnson (both wood body and metal bodies) and Epiphone. I've liked some of the Johnsons, less impressed with the Epis, though it's really a guitar by guitar kind of checking thing and you may find one that speaks to you.

Much more knowledgeable gearheads may pipe up.


Offline Rivers

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Re: Slides Pt. 2 + Guitar
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2004, 11:28:01 AM »
Gary, IMHO the Martin 000-15S is the guitar for you. 12 frets, 1 3/4" nut, all mahogany, slothead, good price.

Offline waxwing

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Re: Slides Pt. 2 + Guitar
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2004, 12:26:49 PM »
There is a current thread that is somewhat informative over at the Woodshed regarding the 000-15s, which does sound like an excellent country blues guitar, and there have been several threads in the last couple months on the IGS Forum concerning "less expensive than Nationals" resonator guitars, including upgrade mods, like swapping in National cones (cheap) and playing with post placement, and such. 'Course, once you start getting into the second or third guitar, you should really take your time, do the research, and play lots of guitars. One good way to do this is to attend Port Townsend, where there will be hundreds of guitars of all ilks. You can hear what the really great ones sound like as well as compare lots of less expensive guitars. Barring that, get out to the stores nearest you and start playin' 'em. And anytime you take a trip, check out the guitar stores in the area. One positive side effect of taking your time is that you can save more funds, giving you more options the longer you hold out.
All for now.
John C.
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Offline Slack

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Re: Slides Pt. 2 + Guitar
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2004, 12:29:43 PM »
If a small body, inexpensive, wood guitar was good enough for Blind Willie Johnson - it's good enough for us.

I do like Rivers pick though if you can spare the extra bucks.

cheers,

Offline frankie

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Re: Slides Pt. 2 + Guitar
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2004, 07:30:17 PM »
I'm gonna pipe up with a dissenting voice on a number of fronts.  First, I like the Martin 000-15S, but really...  they're not exactly "inexpensive".  Maybe by Martin standards they are...  The long scale would also make me think twice about it.  On the other hand, the Lasido guitars (Seagull, A&L, etc...) are all built with a shorter scale, about 24 3/4, are cheap, and sound pretty good.  I've played a bunch of them at a couple of local stores and owned one of the Seagull "Folk" models at one point.  They're fun to play and knock around on, and not a one of them cost more the 275 bucks.  They are, imho, plenty of guitar for that money.  If I was going to spend 650-750 on a Martin 000-15S, I think I'd save some more money and wait for something that really spoke to me.

Slides - maybe I'm just kinda "old school" about this.  I've never understood why anybody would pay more than 4 or 5 bucks for a slide, especially if you can't drink the contents first.  The slide I've had longest was a bottle of some Yugoslavian wine that I bought, drank and broke the neck off.  It's served me well for almost 15 years!  My next favorite is a piece of copper pipe that I picked up at a hardware store.  Granted, most people would tell you that copper's too light or something...  whatever...  it's comfortable and gets kind of a meaty sound on the strings.  It takes a little more work to get genuinely clean sounds out of it, but slide is a lot more about putting your mind & ear to what you're doing than it is about what finger you use or how much the slide weighs.

Resonators - oh, man...  anybody that says you have to get some sort of resonator guitar to play decent slide guitar is just talking nonsense.  I'd say you only need a resonator if you feel like that's the sound for you.  I have a resonator and have never, ever felt the impulse to play slide on it.  The best slide guitars I have are all wooden boxes & ladder-braced.  Not as loud, maybe... but volume and tone are not the same.

There's my inner-grouch coming out again... <g>

Offline Rivers

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Re: Slides Pt. 2 + Guitar
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2004, 07:54:28 PM »
I played a couple of 000-15S's and I still maintain they are brilliant country blues guitars for the price.

$700 is inexpensive, esp. when you consider a Martin will hold its value and maybe appreciate.
The other brands mentioned, while undoubtedly worthy guitars, may not hold their resale value.
Another factor, Martins improve with age, the older the get the better they get.
This isn't universal but it's a very strong tendency.

I'd still want a 000-15S even if I owned a higher end guitar (which I do), they have their own character.
So I guess I'll stick to my guns on this one.

And heavier slides are better. And you are Mister Silly Pants!  :P

Offline frankie

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Re: Slides Pt. 2 + Guitar
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2004, 08:09:02 PM »
$700 is inexpensive, esp. when you consider a Martin will hold its value and maybe appreciate.
The other brands mentioned, while undoubtedly worthy guitars, may not hold their resale value.

Maybe so, but this would have to be the absolute last reason for me to buy a guitar.? I wanna play the durn thing, not invest in it!

Another factor, Martins improve with age, the older the get the better they get.
This isn't universal but it's a very strong tendency.

This is true of most guitars built with solid wood, though, isn't it?? It is in my experience...? ymmv

I'd still want a 000-15S even if I owned a higher end guitar (which I do), they have their own character.
So I guess I'll stick to my guns on this one.

Different strokes - I'm interested in a 000-15S for fiddle backup and stuff, but for blues my tastes run in other directions.? I like cheap guitars - no denying it...

And heavier slides are better. And you are Mister Silly Pants!? :P

What?!?? You're not gonna bust my chops about resonators?? Sheesh!

Offline uncle bud

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Re: Slides Pt. 2 + Guitar
« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2004, 09:13:00 PM »

Resonators - oh, man...? anybody that says you have to get some sort of resonator guitar to play decent slide guitar is just talking nonsense.? I'd say you only need a resonator if you feel like that's the sound for you.? I have a resonator and have never, ever felt the impulse to play slide on it.? The best slide guitars I have are all wooden boxes & ladder-braced.? Not as loud, maybe... but volume and tone are not the same.

Yessir. One of the many things that will make my life complete is a nice little shitbox wood guitar I'd use for slide and sound great on (need all the help I can get). I play slide on a resonator by default. I really like the sound of slide on a wood box. Then again, I like it on a tricone and don't have one of those either. I've thought above raising the action a smidge on my main wood guitar to make it an all-purpose beast but can't commit.

 
Quote
slide is a lot more about putting your mind & ear to what you're doing than it is about what finger you use or how much the slide weighs.

I'm with Silly Pants on this. (well, maybe not the finger use)... To a point at least. I have seen a pro who will go unnamed use a cigar tube and with something that lightweight the tone really suffers IMO.  But otherwise touch seems more important than weight to me.
 :D

Offline Rivers

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Re: Slides Pt. 2 + Guitar
« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2004, 09:38:52 PM »
Re. touch versus weight, I know what you mean. These are two distinct approaches to slide, some play both ways. I want both. I'm looking for tone & touch at this point so prefer a big heavy f--- off chrome monster coz I can't get good saturated tone with a thin slide. This may be a technique thing. I don't find the heavy slide slows me down, I still play too fast.

frankie, points taken, and I will certainly not bust your chops about resonators. They are ideal for resonating. For radiating a flattop + soundhole may be better. Depends on the music you want to play and the sound and voices you hear in your head.

Offline NotRevGDavis

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Re: Slides Pt. 2 + Guitar
« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2004, 09:40:10 PM »
So do you think I should  buy the used A&L Folk for $175.00 (w/HSC)? I can't justify another Martin right now (I opted for the low paying secure occupation). And.. I'm really happy with my Seagull. Lasido makes good quality nice sounding instruments.
If I get better I can always trade up.
Thanks,
Gary
Got the name, still workin' on the licks!

Offline frankie

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Re: Slides Pt. 2 + Guitar
« Reply #11 on: April 22, 2004, 10:29:12 PM »
Re. touch versus weight, I know what you mean. These are two distinct approaches to slide, some play both ways. I want both. I'm looking for tone & touch at this point so prefer a big heavy f--- off chrome monster coz I can't get good saturated tone with a thin slide. This may be a technique thing. I don't find the heavy slide slows me down, I still play too fast.

Don't get me wrong - I've got nothing against a heavy slide.  I just think that a good slide is as likely to be a 'found object' as it is to be a 'designer bottleneck', and there's no reason to assume from the outset that you need to spend something like 20 bucks to start playing.

frankie, points taken, and I will certainly not bust your chops about resonators.

Awww, nuts!  <g>

Depends on the music you want to play and the sound and voices you hear in your head.

The voices in my head seem always to be discussing a ham sandwich...  mmmmm...  yummy...

Offline frankie

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Re: Slides Pt. 2 + Guitar
« Reply #12 on: April 22, 2004, 10:33:19 PM »
I'm with Silly Pants on this.

You know...  it'd be just my luck that Silly Pants would stick somehow...  or even worse, combine unnaturally with Ramblin' - Ramblin' Silly Pants.  Guess I'll be doing Paul Anka covers from now on.

Offline frankie

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Re: Slides Pt. 2 + Guitar
« Reply #13 on: April 22, 2004, 10:49:19 PM »
So do you think I should? buy the used A&L Folk for $175.00 (w/HSC)? I can't justify another Martin right now (I opted for the low paying secure occupation). And.. I'm really happy with my Seagull. Lasido makes good quality nice sounding instruments.

Hi Gary - here's the thing - are there any other guitars that you've played locally that you might like better?  If you have, you might be better off saving that money and waiting to buy something that you really want.  Buying something cheap because you can't afford something else that you want is never very satisfying.  It sounds like you already have a guitar that suits you just fine, so I don't think you need to rush into another...

On the other hand, if you're not sure specifically what you want beyond the convenience of having another guitar for another tuning, the A&L sounds to me like an inexpensive way to satisfy that need. 

If I get better I can always trade up.

Personally, I wouldn't fret too much about its trade in value - Rivers has a point about the resale value of these guitars.  If you were to trade it in, I doubt you'd get as much as half what you paid for it.  It will, on the other hand, always be a great beater guitar, can always go to the beach, or camping, or rafting (yeeha!) and you'll never have to worry about trashing your good guitar.

Ahhh - I see that the water is nice and muddy now...  my work here is apparently done! <g>

Offline Rivers

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Re: Slides Pt. 2 + Guitar
« Reply #14 on: April 22, 2004, 11:56:38 PM »
I stole Mr Silly Pants from a Billy Collins poem about kids scrabblin' around on the carpet poking fun at the grownups, who are drinking cocktails and talking incomprehensible rubbish! Not that you were or anything...
 O0

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