collapse

* Member Info

 
 
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

* Like Us on Facebook

Honey, honey, do you think I'm a fool? Think I'm gonna quit you while the weather is cool? - Will Bennett, Railroad Bill

Author Topic: Re: Charlie Patton Photo?  (Read 12782 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline TallahatchieTrot

  • Member
  • Posts: 43
  • Howdy!
Re: Charlie Patton Photo?
« Reply #60 on: November 11, 2011, 08:39:56 PM »
tHE ORIGINAL PORTRAIT IS STIL IN two PIECES. wHEN IT WAS USED IN THE pATTTON BOOK, i TOOK A PHOTO OF THE POTRAIT ASND yAZOO OSWNER rICH nEVINS RETOUCHED OUT THE BREAK IN THE CARDBOARD. sINCE IT IS STILL WARPED THERE IS NO WAY TO GET IT UNDDER A SCANNER MACHINE. wHAT i NEED TO FIND IA SOMEONE WHO SPECIALIZES IN FLATTENING OLD POTRAITS ANMD CAN GLUE IT BACK TOGETHER>

Offline TallahatchieTrot

  • Member
  • Posts: 43
  • Howdy!
Re: Charlie Patton Photo?
« Reply #61 on: November 11, 2011, 08:51:48 PM »
There no way to scan the original potrait. It is two pieces and badly warped. When we used it in the Patton book, I took a photo of the potrait and slid the 2 pieces together and sent the photo to Yazoo records owner Rich Nevins who had the photo of the potrait touched up to take out the crack where the 2 pieces joined. It IS NOT a drawing but a potrait that must have come from a photo whereas today if you have a photo taken they will touch up the photo to make it look better. Until I can find a professional restorer to flatten and glue the pieces back together there is no way to put it under a scanner. It is warped at least one inch in a curve and was found that way as the original frame it was in had been busted  and it was simply sitting on a mantle in the heat and winter of an unheated sharecropper house and actually been broken in to two pieces across the lower jaws, I'm only glad I was able to save it as it was before it was totally destroyed. Several pieces of it around the face were already gone. There is noone in the Pensacola, Fla area where I live who restores old potraits.  I plan to donate it to a blues museum eventually and will let them pay the costs of rerstoration. But again it is not a drawing or a painting by an artist but a potrait like you see of someone's grandparents from the early 1900s that you will see in frames in antique stores.  Thanks for the enquiry anyways.

Offline misterjones

  • Member
  • Posts: 232
Re: Charlie Patton Photo?
« Reply #62 on: November 12, 2011, 12:48:20 PM »
Given its grossly warped state and the fact that the image we have is a photographed version, there might be a question whether the copy has distortions that make it look less like Patton.

Perhaps instead of flattening the photo, a photo retouching expert could compensate for any distortion caused by the warp using available computer technology. 

Not that the picture at the right looks any more or less like Patton, but you can see how skewing the photo (which I did to the top and bottom halves in different ways) can change how the subject looks.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2011, 01:28:30 PM by misterjones »

Offline Richard

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • Posts: 2406
  • Drove this for 25 years!
    • weekendblues
Re: Charlie Patton Photo?
« Reply #63 on: November 13, 2011, 11:21:12 AM »
True, I wonder if that's what happened to my passport..
(That's enough of that. Ed)

Offline Stumblin

  • Member
  • Posts: 521
  • Got the Blues, can't be satisfied
Re: Charlie Patton Photo?
« Reply #64 on: November 13, 2011, 04:15:04 PM »
True, I wonder if that's what happened to my passport..
Or to my actual face.
We're living through strange and scary times.
Well, I am.

Offline iwbiek

  • Member
  • Posts: 36
  • Howdy!
Charley Patton's (alleged) 1908 photo
« Reply #65 on: April 27, 2015, 02:38:08 PM »
You know, the one with the odd Ricky Ricardo pompadour, thick neck, and moustache (too lazy to posts a link; it can be easily googled for those unfamiliar).  I'm sorry, "retouched" or not, I think Gayle Dean Wardlow was full of shit (or swallowed some anyhow).  The eyes are completely different: the man in the classic photo has downturned eyes, while the man's eyes in the 1908 photo are perfectly level.  Classic photo: rounder nose with a wider bridge; 1908: nose wider at the bottom than the bridge with more pronounced nostrils.  Classic photo: much wider space between top lip and nose, which is obvious even with the moustache in the 1908 photo.  1908 photo: noticeably thinner lips than classic photo.

As far as I know, the only record company that ever used the 1908 photo in its artwork is Document.  It's not in any of the Yazoo releases (LP or CD), Revenant's (despite being chock-full of photos otherwise), Catfish's, JSP's, Indigo's, etc.  R. Crumb didn't use it as any sort of model for his 1985 comic biography.

I don't know which of those is Charley, but they're not the same person.


Offline iwbiek

  • Member
  • Posts: 36
  • Howdy!
Re: Charley Patton's (alleged) 1908 photo
« Reply #67 on: April 27, 2015, 03:50:20 PM »
Forgive me if I'm slow on the uptake, but who would I be PMing exactly?

Offline frankie

  • Member
  • Posts: 2440
    • DoneGone.net
Re: Charley Patton's (alleged) 1908 photo
« Reply #68 on: April 27, 2015, 03:55:14 PM »
Not to worry. I type slow.

That's Gayle Dean Wardlow. You can just ask him directly.

Online Johnm

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • Posts: 11033
    • johnmillerguitar.com
Re: Charley Patton's (alleged) 1908 photo
« Reply #69 on: April 27, 2015, 04:48:53 PM »
I would suggest you keep a civil tongue in your head, iwbiek.  Gayle Dean Wardlow knows more about Charlie Patton than you would if you were reincarnated five times.  It is possible to express skepticism or doubt without insulting someone, as in "I'd be interested to know why Gayle Dean Wardlow felt that picture of Charlie Patton may have represented Patton's actual appearance when it differs so much from the other pictures that have been characterized as being of Patton."  Show some respect.  You expressed yourself inappropriately--this is a place where grown-ups hang out.
Sincerely,
Johnm

Offline Stefan Wirz

  • Member
  • Posts: 253
  • Tach-chen!
    • 'American Music'
Re: Charley Patton's (alleged) 1908 photo
« Reply #70 on: April 27, 2015, 11:55:28 PM »
Amen to what John wrote! Grown-Ups!  :)

Offline iwbiek

  • Member
  • Posts: 36
  • Howdy!
Re: Charley Patton's (alleged) 1908 photo
« Reply #71 on: April 28, 2015, 01:55:04 AM »
My apologies, no offense meant.  I wasn't trying to be insulting, but I will admit I was too familiar.  I said it in the spirit of ragging someone, as you would your friends, but of course this is the net and I still sometimes forget tone is difficult to convey.  I certainly recognize Gayle Dean Wardlow as a Patton authority and he definitely has my respect.

Now, if my faux pas has been forgiven by the general membership, I would like to get back to my skepticism of the two photos being of the same person, and I have a hard time believing I'm the only one, since even an exhaustive treatment like the Revenant set did not reproduce it.  Has it been dismissed by most scholars?  All Google turned up for me was skepticism (in a 2003 post on another website) of the rediscovered full-body photo.

Offline frankie

  • Member
  • Posts: 2440
    • DoneGone.net
Re: Charley Patton's (alleged) 1908 photo
« Reply #72 on: April 28, 2015, 04:06:48 AM »
Mods: perhaps this thread could be merged with this other merged thread:

http://weeniecampbell.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=3084.0

Offline StoogeKebab

  • Member
  • Posts: 116
  • Howdy!
    • LAW Records
Re: Charley Patton's (alleged) 1908 photo
« Reply #73 on: April 28, 2015, 04:11:09 AM »
I had a read on a tumblr blog which had some more supposed evidence that I could not validate, though I am sure I have heard Son House refer to Patton as having a moustache at one point or another between 1968 and 1971 which most of my unpublished interview materials come from (unless he told it to Bob West in 1968, there's little hope you'll find it online).

This blog also claimed Howlin' Wolf referred to him as looking Puerto Rican or Mexican. This I could not find elsewhere.

The aforementioned being said, I have to agree with some of the others here, I may not be as much a part of this community as other people (largely because most of these people have a 50 year head start on me) - but I know enough to know that Mr Wardlow wouldn't accept the claim without good reason being presented to him - he is quite the researcher and I personally admire his writings, the stories he has from others that he passes on and even his own experiences are very enjoyable to listen to and read. If you can, ask  :)
« Last Edit: April 29, 2015, 02:19:33 AM by StoogeKebab »
Confident that I'm probably almost definitely the youngest record label owner in my street

Live Acoustic Wollongong - LAW Records

https://www.facebook.com/law.nkjc/

https://itunes.apple.com/au/artist/james-r-cooper/id992309035

Offline Bunker Hill

  • Member
  • Posts: 2832
Re: Charley Patton's (alleged) 1908 photo
« Reply #74 on: April 28, 2015, 05:59:40 AM »
Mods: perhaps this thread could be merged with this other merged thread:

http://weeniecampbell.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=3084.0
Admirable suggestion Frankie - especially in light of the TallahatchieTrot input, aka Gayle Dean Wardlow.  ;)

Tags: Charlie Patton  
 


anything
SimplePortal 2.3.7 © 2008-2020, SimplePortal