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Author Topic: Re: Charlie Patton Photo?  (Read 11188 times)

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Offline uncle bud

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Re: Charley Patton Album Cover Document Records
« Reply #15 on: March 04, 2011, 06:46:19 AM »
I think it's Guido Sarducci.

Offline Bunker Hill

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Re: Charley Patton Album Cover Document Records
« Reply #16 on: March 04, 2011, 07:04:05 AM »
It's the frontispiece of the 1988 Calt-Wardlow book King Of The Delta Blues Singers and bears the caption "heavily retouched photo of Charlie Patton dating to c. 1908". Perhaps GDW can supply the provenance.

Offline ericm

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Re: Charley Patton Album Cover Document Records
« Reply #17 on: March 04, 2011, 07:47:23 AM »
It's Freddie Mercury !!!  >:D
JOURNALIST: I guess your long hair makes you a girl.
Frank ZAPPA: I guess your wooden leg makes you a table.

Offline Blind Arthur

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Re: Charley Patton Album Cover Document Records
« Reply #18 on: March 04, 2011, 08:58:29 AM »
Thanks, Bunker Hill! For a while I thought it showed Henry Sims (who is on the cover of Vol 3 though).
You canīt trust your baby when the ice man comes hanging around :D

Offline Johnm

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Re: Charlie Patton Photo?
« Reply #19 on: March 04, 2011, 09:11:07 AM »
Hi all,
Since I was busy changing all the Charlie Patton tags to CharLIE, I noticed there was already a thread dealing with this photo and merged the old thread with the new one.
All best,
Johnm

Offline Bunker Hill

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Re: Re: Charlie Patton Photo?
« Reply #20 on: March 04, 2011, 10:12:21 AM »
Hi all,
Since I was busy changing all the Charlie Patton tags to CharLIE, I noticed there was already a thread dealing with this photo and merged the old thread with the new one.
All best,
Johnm
I guess maybe the Tags should be checked for previous discussions prior to posting new topics. My experience is the knee jerk reaction off firing a new topic regardless. Furthermore I have no recollection of my previous post in which I say much the same three years later.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2011, 10:14:34 AM by Bunker Hill »

Offline Stumblin

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Re: Charlie Patton Photo?
« Reply #21 on: March 04, 2011, 01:35:26 PM »
For purposes of at-least-a-bit-meaningful comparison, here are both images side by side:

I don't know, the moustachioed chap seems to have a much thinner nose. But I guess people change over time and it is a heavily retouched picture...
The ears are very similar, to my eyes anyway. Calt & Wardlow seemed to accept the photo as being Charlie Patton, Mr. Wardlow has posted recently on Weenie, maybe he can furnish us with more detailed information regarding this picture and its provenance etc.?
Or, just a thought. Maybe if we played it at half speed?

Offline LB

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Re: Charlie Patton Photo?
« Reply #22 on: March 04, 2011, 02:43:39 PM »
Those aren't even close to being the same guy, whoa. Nose, ears, face shape, chin, lower lip. Also, no two people have the same distance from the eyes to nose tip (triangle) and I believe that's the main thing facial recognition software compares to get hits. Based on that theory, someone with a better version of these two photos/paintings and a ruler could relatively easily determine if it might be a definite mismatch. I'm too tired from the commute to list all the differences I can see plainly.

Offline banjochris

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Re: Charlie Patton Photo?
« Reply #23 on: March 04, 2011, 07:25:19 PM »
And of course, it could well be of Patton, but the artist may not have been much good.

Offline TallahatchieTrot

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Re: Wardlow's response about Charlie Patton portrait photo
« Reply #24 on: March 05, 2011, 04:48:00 PM »
Blues Fans-Let me tell you the story behind the portrait. I was talking to Hayes McMulland and Willie Moore in Sumner in 1967 and they both said a woman who just died on this plantation has a photo of Patton.  I said let's go down to the house and look at it. When I got there the grandaughter had the portrait and it was in two pieces.
    I said to Hayes that can't be Charlie. He said "that's naturally him Mr Wardlow. He looked just like one of those Mexicans when I knew him.  He always had a mustache too when I played with him."  The grandaughter said her grandmother dated/married  Patton in about 1910 and the photo was taken in Oxford in the hill country and was then made into a portrait.   He would have been about 20 when this relatiionship occurred. He left her and broke her heart and she never married again but kept the portrait til she died.[
 You will notice that the ears look the same and just below the bottom lip to the chin is the same indentation.  I have somewhere on one of the Hayes or Moore tapes one of them declaring it was Patton when has about 20 to 24 years old as I thought no one will believe this is PAtton.  It was retouched from a photo to a portrait and the hair doesn't look kinky as a black man has. But Hayes always said Mr Wardlow if that man hadn't had kinky hair he could have passed for white. Also remember Howlin' Wolf has been quoted as saying Patton looked like a Puerto Rician.
        It would have been foolish for me to try and pass off a photo of some Italian as Patton. What would I have gained from that. Nothing but criticism. I only wanted to show hosw he looked in his very early 20s.  But Hayes and Mooore  both said that Charlie Patton when he was young.

Offline Mr.OMuck

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Re: Charlie Patton Photo?
« Reply #25 on: March 05, 2011, 05:43:12 PM »
I noted the ear shape similarity. It appeared long before the days of photoshop, and anybody who's looked at retouched photos of the period knows that the
the results could vary widely. If the original was in two pieces and inexpertly reassembled it could well account for the thinner nose.
Thanks for the explanation Gayle.
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Offline Shovel

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Re: Charlie Patton Photo?
« Reply #26 on: March 06, 2011, 06:31:09 AM »
Thank you Mr. Wardlow. 

Can somebody shop a mustachio on older patton just to see?

Offline uncle bud

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Re: Charlie Patton Photo?
« Reply #27 on: March 06, 2011, 07:35:44 AM »
Yes, thanks for the background on the origin of the photo, Gayle (and pardon my earlier facetious comment  ;)).

Offline Mr.OMuck

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Re: Charlie Patton Photo?
« Reply #28 on: March 06, 2011, 09:56:37 AM »
With mustache & eyes in shadow
My loathings are simple: stupidity, oppression, crime, cruelty, soft music.
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Offline Mr.OMuck

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Re: Charlie Patton Photo?
« Reply #29 on: March 06, 2011, 09:57:41 AM »
Also made the hair darker
My loathings are simple: stupidity, oppression, crime, cruelty, soft music.
Vladimir Nabokov (1899 - 1977)

http://www.youtube.com/user/MuckOVision

Tags: Charlie Patton