Topic: help with guitar ID

[Prof Scratchy]

Thanks a lot, Dabluz - you and Todd seem to pretty much concur on this. Meanwhile, here's the picture of the twelve string I meant to post the other day but failed miserably - Todd has some ideas about this one which he's shared already by email. What do others think?

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[dabluz]

i bet if you take a mirror and look inside on the top by the bridge plate or there abouts you will see in pencil "john ? (can't remember his last name)" " a date " and "dayton, ohio". sure looks like one i worked on a couple of years ago. six string version.

[harpe]

The no-name 12-string is most likely a Chicago-made guitar (Regal, L&H). I had a 6-string jumbo/auditorium guitar just like it not too long ago (same body shape and appointments). I have seen guitars with this same purfling and Rosette in at least four body sizes that were marked "Regal", "Stering" and "Galiano".

The tailpiece is the kind used mostly by Schmidt and differs from the 12-string tailpiece typically used by Regal, Harmony and other Chicago makers. However, this is definitely not a Schmidt guitar (wrong body shape). This leads me to wonder... could this be a conversion from what was once a 6-string guitar? The old style tailpieces are extremely rare. Having found one someplace (Ebay, for example), and having a good doner body, it's not much of a stretch to imagine someone fashioning a new neck and...

Incidentally, although many "Galiano" guitars were made by Oscar Schmidt, many were not. The Galiano folks also bought guitars from Regal, Harmony and Kay (among others) as well as building guitars in their own New York City shop.

Neil Harpe

[Prof Scratchy]

Thanks, Neil, for your contribution, which serves to deepen the mystery. I still haven't had time to check out Dabluz's 'John?' theory, but one day I most certainly will. As far as the converted six string theory goes.. I imagine anything's possible, but in the case of the neck on this guitar, any work must've happened a long time before ebay was thought of (or have been very cleverly faked). Also, they might've chosen a neck size to fit the average mortal! This one's a big handful-and-a-half! Todd vered towards Regal as well initially - but the headstock's definitely not the usual Regal shape. I thought when I bought it that it was a Stella (it was advertised as such by a very reputable US dealer) - but that was before I bought guitars from Neil and received a complementary copy of his excellent book referred to elswhere in this thread. One day, no doubt, all will become apparent???

[harpe]

What do you mean, the headstock is not the usual Regal shape? Regal made loads of guitars with this headstock shape, including some 12-string guitars. Maybe Todd is thinking of the Regal 12-strings made in the 1930s with a solid headstock. Regal guitars were made with quite a few different peghead designs, in both the slotted and solid styles. During the late '30s, they sold at least three different solid headstock 12-string guitars. But their earlier ones had a slotted headstock just like the guitar in question. Anyway, I recognize the body. It is a Regal.


You might want attribute it to Lyon & Healy. Regal built L&H guitars for them, so once again: Regal. Harmony also made similar 12-string guitars starting in the 1920s, but the body shape of your guitar was never a Harmony shape. The shape and appointments say "Regal".

NH

[Prof Scratchy]

Many thanks again, Neil. Where else but Weenie Campbell is there all this expertise on tap. Brilliant! BTW it was me (should that be "I"?),  who had the 'not Regal' theory based on the headstock shape - this due to my only having ever seen photos of Regals with the solid headstock. Thanks again to everybody who helped. Meanwhile I'm on the lookout for a handy mirror with which to have  a look inside.

[Parlor Picker]

Meanwhile I'm on the lookout for a handy mirror with which to have  a look inside.

Guess you'll have to take up burgling dentists...or ask your own dentist if he has an old mirror to give you in return for all the pain you've suffered over the years (to your mouth and your wallet).

But seriously folks, this has been a very interesting thread.  As long as you accept that the whole prewar guitar thing is a bit of a minefield and don't get too hung up on positive identification of every instrument, it's a fascinating subject.  Thanks for starting it and keeping it going Prof. Scratchy.

[Richard]

Aka mirrors... yes, ask your dentist - I did and was give a few disposable jobs which are also handy for the inside of computers 

[Stuart]

re: mirrors--if you can't wait for that six-month checkup, you could check the local drugstore. In addition, auto parts stores in their specialty tool section (also check Sears) might have something that will work.

[Prof Scratchy]

As (bad) luck would have it, I've got the dentist at 4pm  on Monday. I'll ask (if I can still speak)?

[Richard]

Thinking about this... Prof, are you in Scotland or some place north of Cheltenham..... if so I have feeling another Weenie called Snakehips (oh yes!) is up your way somewhere and is a real live dentist who plays a National... over to you 

[Prof Scratchy]

Richard - that's right. Snakehips lives round the corner from me and we play in the same band. But I never thought of asking him about the mirror..I'll do so tomorrow!

[snakehips]

Hi there !

Sho nuff ! I'm the Prof 's bandmate and also a Dentist.
Sure, he can have a mirror.

Talking of Dentists, did you hear about the guy that went to see his Dentist ?
The dentist said to him - "Say aah ".
The man said "Why ?"
The Dentist said "My dog just died"

[Richard]

Snakehips....  we'll let you know .... 

[harpe]

Forget dentist's mirrors. You can get a much better look inside a guitar with a mirror purchased at a hardware or auto parts store. Some have a round mirror, others have a nice large rectangular mirror. I like the rectangular type. Most all will have a telescoping handle and there are even some with a built-in light. As long as it will fit through the sound hole, I'd suggest getting the largest one you can find if you intend to concentrate on flat top guitars..

Whenever you know you'll be looking at guitars (like going to a guitar show, for example), it's wise to bring along your inspection mirror and a little flashlight. That way, you can see what's going on inside of instruments you're interested in...like repairs, loose braces - as well as to satisfy your curiosity concerning the method of construction.

NH