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Author Topic: Etymology of the Country Blues Lexicon and Blues Terminology  (Read 16390 times)

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Offline Rivers

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Re: Vocabulary definition queries
« Reply #45 on: February 17, 2013, 08:28:02 AM »
We do not. You might find some discussion scattered around though.

Offline Gumbo

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Re: Vocabulary definition queries
« Reply #46 on: February 17, 2013, 09:02:52 AM »
Good idea, Stumblin. There have been a goodly number of vocabularic mysteries cleared up here. It'd be useful to tag or collect them ...
« Last Edit: February 18, 2013, 07:14:05 AM by Gumbo »

Offline Johnm

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Re: Etymology of the Country Blues Lexicon and Blues Terminology
« Reply #47 on: February 17, 2013, 09:34:22 AM »
Hi guys,
Here's the thread you're looking for, I think.  I merged it into your new thread, Andy.
All best,
Johnm

Offline Stumblin

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Re: Etymology of the Country Blues Lexicon and Blues Terminology
« Reply #48 on: February 17, 2013, 09:44:21 AM »
Thanks John.

Offline Mr.OMuck

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My loathings are simple: stupidity, oppression, crime, cruelty, soft music.
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Offline Stumblin

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Re: Etymology of the Country Blues Lexicon and Blues Terminology
« Reply #50 on: February 18, 2013, 06:50:24 AM »
O'Muck, that's interesting and possible. Thanks.
My money's still on it being See, see, rider, as explained in post #28 in this thread. That's certainly always been my interpretation; it just makes sense to me. CC rider, a passenger on a C&C line train, is undeniably a strong contender. Could both explanations be applicable, as an example of convergent linguistic evolution?

Offline Mr.OMuck

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Etymology of the Country Blues Lexicon and Blues Terminology
« Reply #51 on: February 18, 2013, 06:54:30 AM »
Other confused sources indicate that 'C.C. Rider' refers to early 'Country Circuit' Riding Preachers who traveled on horseback into many towns that were without formal churches at the time.[10]

Wikipedia
My loathings are simple: stupidity, oppression, crime, cruelty, soft music.
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Offline Mr.OMuck

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My loathings are simple: stupidity, oppression, crime, cruelty, soft music.
Vladimir Nabokov (1899 - 1977)

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Offline Mr.OMuck

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Re: Etymology of the Country Blues Lexicon and Blues Terminology
« Reply #53 on: February 18, 2013, 08:02:07 AM »
Forgive my truncated replies but i'm typing on an effing iphone ...torture.
Regarding cc rider is there an earlier version than Ma Rainy's?
I think Big Bill said he first heard Blues from an older musician who called himself cc Rider. I think that given the prevalence or RR. imagery in Blues
A likely scenario is that the frequent train traveller is being asked to examine their behavior in light of the emotional damage their infidelity has caused.
My loathings are simple: stupidity, oppression, crime, cruelty, soft music.
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Offline Mr.OMuck

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Re: Etymology of the Country Blues Lexicon and Blues Terminology
« Reply #54 on: February 18, 2013, 08:05:07 AM »
Of course having only ridden the CC once could have counted  for a major personality defining event in a small rural community.
My loathings are simple: stupidity, oppression, crime, cruelty, soft music.
Vladimir Nabokov (1899 - 1977)

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Offline uncle bud

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Etymology of the Country Blues Lexicon and Blues Terminology
« Reply #55 on: February 18, 2013, 09:51:03 AM »
Of course, Big Bill was notorious for just making shit up as well. ;)

Offline Mr.OMuck

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Re: Etymology of the Country Blues Lexicon and Blues Terminology
« Reply #56 on: February 18, 2013, 10:15:38 AM »
Yes but it was high class shit! :P
My loathings are simple: stupidity, oppression, crime, cruelty, soft music.
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Offline Coyote Slim

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Re: Etymology of the Country Blues Lexicon and Blues Terminology
« Reply #57 on: February 23, 2013, 11:19:47 AM »
Pretty good thread.  This old post caught my eye.



Black Cat Bone - A mystical charm that is actually a bone from a black cat that has been ritually processed. Carried for good luck.

Jinx - The bearer of bad luck. A mojo hand would be worn for protection from a jinx.

Johnny Conqueroo - A woody tuber related to the sweet potato used in a mojo hand.


Mojo - A magical spell or item. Someone could put some bad mojo on you or you could carry a mojo hand to ward off these evil intents.

Root Doctor - Person versed in magical cures from plants.


A black cat's bone is not carried for good luck, it's used to control someone.  "I believe my woman's got a black cat's bone/ I tried so hard and I just couldn't leave her alone."

A mojo hand isn't neccesarily worn to protect one from a jinx or crossing, it can be imbued with whatever kind of power you wish it to.  Sometimes mojo hand is just shortened to mojo.  Since you don't let other people mess with your personal power, it lead to this kind of lyric:  "I believe she got a mojo, try to keep it hid/ I got something to find her mojo with."  In other words, the woman had some power that was causing her man to act a certain way, but he found some power to find what she had and change it.

John de conqueror Root is a plant of the morning glory family used in Hoodoo practice, sometimes but not always in a mojo hand.

Hoodoo root doctor's skills with herbs aren't "magical."  Hoodoo is a form of folk herbalism and spiritualism derived from African, American Indian, and European traditions.


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Offline alyoung

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Re: Etymology of the Country Blues Lexicon and Blues Terminology
« Reply #58 on: March 04, 2013, 02:59:47 AM »
CC Rider ... there's sure been some dubious material put out on this. I've done a bit of study on gospel (including preaching) and am fairly sure that the "country/county circuit rider" doesn't exist. It wasn't -- and still isn't -- uncommon for one preacher to have several small churches but the CCR term doesn't occur. I've also got quite a lot of scepticism/skepticism about Big Bill Broonzy's Mr Rider. Never heard the train one ... where is this CC line? My money stays firmly on "easy rider" with "see see rider" being a deliberate word play on this and CC Rider a mishearing.

Offline waxwing

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Re: Etymology of the Country Blues Lexicon and Blues Terminology
« Reply #59 on: December 16, 2017, 03:19:42 PM »
Been tryin? to post this since Nov. I spent Thanksgiving with Gre?s siblings at one of their homes in Golden CO. On the warm and sunny Sunday we took a toddler grandchild to the Colorado Train Museum, about 15 acres of old train engines and cars, a roundhouse and engine shop, and pretty much the most elaborate HO model train layout (with a working amusement park) I have ever seen.

Anyway, I set out to see what I could find out about ?riding the blinds? and ?riding the rods?.

?Riding the rods? was pretty evident as soon as I found a few older boxcars: See first two pics below

These tension rods stiffen the floor under the doorway. In conversation later with the foreman of a crew of semi-elderly (i.e. my age) volunteers, who work on the trains and move them around (He had worked his life for Burlington Northern), he agreed and added that hobos would lay boards across them and just lie there.

So I asked him about ?Riding the Blinds?, relating that I had heard something about the side walls and roof of much older boxcars extending beyond the end walls creating a ?blind? area where someone could not be seen easily. He didn?t think they had constructed cars that way because it would be a waste of shipping space. Then he told me that in gondolas, or hopper cars, there is an area at either end under the sharply sloped end walls, that the sidewalls extend over, There is also a partial cross wall, that supports the slanted end wall half way down, and closes off the area except for a space in the middle to access the attachment points of the trucks below. He said yardmen would often travel around the yard in this space while making up a train, and he himself had travelled from station to station at about 60 mph. Unfortunately, there were not any gondolas in the museum at that time for him to show me. So I pulled the last pic below off the net.

You can see how the sidewall meets the slanted end wall, but at the point where the vertical wall supports the slanted end wall, the sidewall follows the vertical to the base (under the yellow band). So essentially a dark triangular space, with a flat floor, but the peak not high enough to stand up, couple tons of coal, bauxite or tomatoes on the other side of the slanted steel roof above.

?Better than being out in the wind.? he said.

Anyway, if you happen to be in Golden, or nearby Denver, it?s worth a trip out to this museum, which I?m sure has a web site.

Wax
« Last Edit: December 16, 2017, 03:34:14 PM by waxwing »
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