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Author Topic: Charley Patton remasters  (Read 2027 times)

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Offline Gumbo

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Re: Charley Patton remasters
« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2018, 06:34:56 AM »
One for every room in the house and two for the car!  >:D

Offline sofingraw

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Re: Charley Patton remasters
« Reply #16 on: October 10, 2018, 02:27:46 AM »
I know I'm not the ultimate authority, but I have managed to cull the ultimate complete recordings of CP pulled from (in my opinion) the best remasters. Most tracks are from the most recent Yazoo sets, a few are from the JSP, a few are from the Revenant box, and the rest are from the Tefteller Calendar cd's. The Tefteller's are the missing links because they contain more recently discovered cleaner copies of Patton tracks. His remasters from cleaner copies of "Pea Vine", "Mean Black Cat", "Frankie and Albert" etc. are essential. Pea Vine being the most noticable. It's almost as if Patton is in the room with you, it's scary. The Patton box has some of the most obscure of the Patton tracks which sound awful i.e. "Jim Lee pt 2" and "Joe Kirby". I had to put a few of them up against the JSP's. I personally think the Yazoo remaster of "Down The Dirt Road" is still superior to the recent American Epic, which I think sounds a bit too quiet and less full. If anyone is interested in my full list, I can post it or email me at geffstiubhairt@gmail.com and let me know what you think.
-Cheers (a Patton fanatic)
PS Just got that full length poster of Patton from Blues Images, startling addition to my wall.

Would you mind posting your listing of which tracks you think are the best from each source? I?d love to compare, myself. I listen to the Yazoo stuff almost exclusively, thinking that, as the consensus answer, it is the best overall. But I am very interested to hear any tracks which sound better.

« Last Edit: October 11, 2018, 04:16:57 AM by sofingraw »

Offline btasoundsradio

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Re: Charley Patton remasters
« Reply #17 on: October 10, 2018, 02:22:24 PM »
I will have to type that up soon. I just got the newest Blues Images in the mail with "Oh Death" and "Troubled Bout My Mother" on it, so I have to sit and start doing some comparisons. So far it doesn't sound that great.
Charlie is the Father, Son is the Son, Willie is the Holy Ghost

Offline sofingraw

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Re: Charley Patton remasters
« Reply #18 on: October 11, 2018, 04:20:26 AM »
Thanks! I appreciate the reply, and am excited to see what you?ve got.

Understanding that quality is to a degree subjective, I would love to hear strictly THE BEST Patton, all the time.
What a dream, to one day hear all the Patton sides in nearly perfect quality. I wonder if it will ever be possible? I think possibly, yes.


Offline Blind Chubby Bifster

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Re: Charley Patton remasters
« Reply #19 on: January 11, 2019, 02:07:11 AM »
I will have to type that up soon. I just got the newest Blues Images in the mail with "Oh Death" and "Troubled Bout My Mother" on it, so I have to sit and start doing some comparisons. So far it doesn't sound that great.

I'd be interested to compare your list with mine, I have Patton on Yazoo, American Epic, Blues Images, JSP plus the Revanant and paramount box sets. There is certainty no definitive source at present which is frustrating. Of course in relation to the paramount sets only the tracks contained on the LP's were remastered and even then the remastering is nothing special on a lot of the tracks. There is also the fact that the digital tracks including the remastered LP tracks are in mp3!

The American epic tracks sound quiet and subdued, a little too much noise reduction perhaps? Revenant and Yazoo are noisier but less compressed and more vibrant, the revenant set doesn?t get a lot of love these days in terms of sound quality but there are gems contained within (the Willie Brown tracks for example still sound the best to my ears).

I believ JSP are basically ripped off the document label (?the horror...the horror?) but some tweaking has certainly made them more palatable but again arguably a little compressed.

Catfish... my box set was given to a charity shop. Massive noise reduction and compression Patton sounded like he was a in a different country.

Anyway enough of my inane ramblings looking forward to seeing your list.

Offline DerZauberer

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Re: Charley Patton remasters
« Reply #20 on: January 18, 2019, 03:03:18 AM »
Quick side note: The discussion here led me down a rabbit hole of comparing all the versions I have of Willie Brown's "Future Blues". It's amazing to do these kinds of comparisons with a song you know really really well.

I still have a soft spot for the very early Yazoo transfers (talking LP era here), with Nick Perls surfing the grooves and getting the best he could in a pre-digital-cleanup time. They do sound close to the sound you get from a reasonably clean 78rpm record being played. Of course, especially on some of the real nasty noisy tracks, clean-up has done wonders. I do have a couple of Son House's "Preachin' Blues", for example, that are barely listenable in their older versions, and much more enjoyable in more recent releases.

But the Willie Brown expedition has shown me a few things:
(1) It is very hard to define an objective "best" - more hiss and crackles often also mean more clarity and high-end, a lot of clean-up sometimes results in much reduced bass present on the original recording, then there is the influence of stylus+cartridge, eqalization, etc. - what is "best"?
(2) Consistency should not be under-estimated. My Wille Brown tracks sound quite different, but they usually are "in line" with their release. On one CD, all tracks are a little "boomy", so the track fits in just fine - but compared to another compilation with a very tight bottom end, it feels completely out of place.
(3) I do like the effort put in by the "American Epic" team, on the AE releases as well as Tefteller's more recent calendar CDs. They are maybe a little on the "analytical" side (very tightened up and scrubbed, rather "modern" sounding), but overall very consistent and in most cases great improvements especially to relatively unclean copies.

The benchmark for me still ist the Robert Johnson set - then again, these are not 1929 clay-cum-garbage Paramount pressings, but based on really high quality source material (and with a lot of money behind to do so because of his popularity).

Would I love an "ultimate" Patton edition? Absolutely. Until then, I will keep switching between what I have (Paramount Boxes, JSP, various compilations, Catfish Records "The Definitive"). Do I think there is a market for such an "ultimate" edition? Probably not, Patton is much more of an acquired taste and a lot less known than RJ. Maybe, just maybe, should there be another Blues revival caused by a popular young band referencing these old heroes... does not seem likely though.
"The blues is not a plaything like some people think they are." - Son House

Offline btasoundsradio

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Re: Charley Patton remasters
« Reply #21 on: January 24, 2019, 11:12:56 AM »
Sadly I don't have all the info I once did, so I had to try and retype it. It got lost in my life's many transitions. I have all the actual music on my computer in chronological order, but I don't have the sources listed. All I really know is that most of the recent Tefteller remasters have been the most revelatory sonically, with the exception of the recent "Oh Death" and vol 15's "MS Boweavil" and Screamin And Hollerin'", which are not as good as the last Yazoo remastering. I know a few of them were from JSP, but I don't know which. A few of the American Epic were used as well. The revenant set and maybe a few Document cuts fill in the gaps. BUT I think this list is accurate, there may not actually be JSP cuts on there (with corrected titles!):
1. Mississippi Boll Weavil Blues - Yazoo
2. Screamin' and Hollerin' The Blues - Yazoo
3. Down The Dark Road (Over The Sea) Blues - Blues Images
4. Pony Blues - Blues Images
5. Banty Rooster Blues - Yazoo
6. It Won't Be Long - Yazoo
7. Pea Vine Blues - Blues Images
8. Tom Rushing Blues - Blues Images
9. A Spoonful Blues - Blues Images
10. Shake It and Break It (Don't Let It Fall Mama) - Blues Images
11. Prayer Of Death pt. 1 - Yazoo
12. Prayer Of Death pt. 2 - Yazoo
13. Lord I'm Discouraged - Blues Images
14. I'm Goin' Home - Blues Images
15. Gonna Move To Alabama - Blues Images
16. Elder Green Blues - Yazoo
17. Elder Green Blues (alt. take) - Yazoo
18. Circle 'Round The Moon - Revenant
19. Devil Sent The Rain - Revenant
20. Mean Black Cat - Blues Images
21. Frankie and Albert - Blues Images
22. Some Of These Days - Blues Images
23. Some Of These Days - (alt take) - Blues Images
24. Green River Blues - Yazoo
25. Farrell Blues (Henry Sims) - Revenant   
26. Corrina Blues (Henry Sims) - Revenant
27. Tell Me Man Blues (Henry Sims) - Revenant
28. Be True Be True Blues (Henry Sims) - Revenant
29. Hammock Blues - Yazoo
30. Hammer Blues (Hammock Blues) (Alt. take) - Revenant
31. When Your Way Gets Dark - Revenant
32. Magnolia Blues (When Your Way Gets Dark) - Blues Images
33. Heart Like Railroad Steel - Revenant
34. Some Happy Day - Yazoo
35. You're Gonna Need Somebody on Your Bond - Yazoo
36. Jim Lee pt. 1 - Yazoo
37. Jim Lee pt. 2 - Revenant
38. High Water Everywhere pt. 1 - Blues Images
39. High Water Everywhere pt. 2 - Blues Images
40. Jesus Is A Dying-Bed Maker - Blues Images
41. I Shall Not Be Moved - Yazoo
42. I Shall Not Be Moved (alt take) - Document
(apparently there are 2 listed alt. takes to this cut, but maybe that is a mistake, I couldn't figure it out)
43. Rattlesnake Blues - Yazoo
44. Runnin' Wild - Yazoo
45. Joe Kirby Blues - Revenant
46. Mean Black Moan - Revenant
47. Dry Well Blues - Yazoo
48. Some Summer Day pt. 1 - Yazoo
49. Moon Goin' Down - Yazoo
50. Bird Nest Bound - Yazoo
51. Jersey Bull Blues - Yazoo
52. High Sheriff Blues - Yazoo
53. Stone Pony Blues - Yazoo
54. Yellow Bee (Bertha Lee) - Yazoo
55. Mind Reader Blues (Bertha Lee) - Yazoo
56. 34 Blues - Yazoo
57. Love My Stuff - Blues Images
58. Revenue Man Blues - Yazoo
59. Oh Death (w/ Bertha Lee) - Yazoo
60. Troubled 'Bout My Mother (w/ Bertha Lee) - Yazoo
61. Poor Me - Yazoo
62. Hang It On The Wall - Yazoo
 
« Last Edit: January 24, 2019, 11:44:22 AM by btasoundsradio »
Charlie is the Father, Son is the Son, Willie is the Holy Ghost

Offline btasoundsradio

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Re: Charley Patton remasters
« Reply #22 on: January 24, 2019, 11:57:03 AM »
Here also is the ULTIMATE sounding Tommy Johnson discography:
Tommy Johnson Discography (Best Masters)
1928 Victor Sessions (w/ Charlie McCoy)
1. Cool Drink Of Water Blues - Memphis Blues Singers Vol. 1 Frog Records (John RT Davies)
2. Big Road Blues - Memphis Blues Singers Vol. 1 Frog Records (John RT Davies)
3. Bye Bye Blues - Memphis Blues Singers Vol. 1 Frog Records (John RT Davies)
4. Maggie Campbell Blues - Memphis Blues Singers Vol. 1 Frog Records (John RT Davies)
(solo 1928 Victor Sessions)
5. Canned Heat Blues - Memphis Blues Vol. 2 Frog Records (John RT Davies)
6. Big Fat Mama Blues - Memphis Blues Vol. 2 Frog Records (John RT Davies)
7. Lonesome Home Blues - Memphis Blues Vol. 2 Frog Records (John RT Davies)
8. Lonesome Home Blues (Test) - Blues Images Vol. 8
1929 Paramount Sessions
9. Alcohol and Jake Blues - Blues Images vol. 12
10. Ridin' Horse - Blues Images vol. 12
11. I Want Someone To Love Me - Blues Images vol. 1
12. I Want Someone To Love Me (longer Version) - Canned Heat Blues
13. I Wonder To Myself - Blues Images vol. 15
14. Slidin' Delta - The Stuff That Dreams Are Made Of vol. 1Yazoo
15. Lonesome Home Blues - The Return of Stuff That Dreams Are Made Of Yazoo
16. Black Mare Blues tk. 1 (w/ NOLA Nehi Boys) - Canned Heat Blues
17. Black Mare Blues tk. 2  (w/ NOLA Nehi Boys) -  Canned Heat Blues
18. Morning Prayer Blues (test) - Canned Heat Blues
19. Bogalusa Woman (test) - Times Ain't Like They Used To Be (Yazoo)
Charlie is the Father, Son is the Son, Willie is the Holy Ghost

Offline CF

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Re: Charley Patton remasters
« Reply #23 on: January 25, 2019, 06:25:54 AM »
"I Want Someone to Love Me" the longer version??? Can you elaborate, never heard of such a thing?
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Offline btasoundsradio

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Re: Charley Patton remasters
« Reply #24 on: January 25, 2019, 12:40:07 PM »
This other remastering I found on this "Canned Heat Blues" collection is slightly longer than the Tefteller version, the audio isn't as good but is more than 30 seconds longer.
Charlie is the Father, Son is the Son, Willie is the Holy Ghost

Offline CF

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Re: Charley Patton remasters
« Reply #25 on: January 25, 2019, 04:15:01 PM »
Interesting, do you know what label that is on?
Stand By If You Wanna Hear It Again . . .

Offline Stuart

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Re: Charley Patton remasters
« Reply #26 on: January 26, 2019, 02:41:16 PM »
Interesting, do you know what label that is on?

It looks like it was included on the Wolf release of their earlier 1983 LP compilation. The CD release contains additional songs:

https://www.discogs.com/Tommy-Johnson-Canned-Heat-Blues-Complete-Recordings-In-Chronological-Order-1928-1929/master/735344

https://www.discogs.com/release/5929880-Canned-Heat-Blues-Complete-Recordings-In-Chronological-Order-1928-1929/images

https://www.wirz.de/music/wolf.htm

https://www.wirz.de/music/johnsont.htm

I don't have the CD, nor have I listened to it.

It's possible that the track length is simply an error, or that additional sound was removed at the end (fade out) of the test pressing CD recording by the other reissue labels. The "Times Ain't Like They Used To Be Vol 8" recording sounds identical to the Blues Images recording.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2019, 02:47:18 PM by Stuart »

Offline btasoundsradio

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Re: Charley Patton remasters
« Reply #27 on: January 27, 2019, 06:28:26 AM »
"It's possible that the track length is simply an error, or that additional sound was removed at the end (fade out) of the test pressing CD recording by the other reissue labels. The "Times Ain't Like They Used To Be Vol 8" recording sounds identical to the Blues Images recording."

That's why I included the Canned Heat Blues version as well. There's a fade out on that one, but there is 30 seconds more music.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2019, 06:46:42 AM by btasoundsradio »
Charlie is the Father, Son is the Son, Willie is the Holy Ghost

Offline Stuart

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Re: Charley Patton remasters
« Reply #28 on: January 27, 2019, 09:34:53 AM »
Thanks for the info. I was basing my guesswork on John Teftteller's quoted statement at Stefan's site re: the two test pressings.

Is it available anywhere other than on the Wolf release?
« Last Edit: January 27, 2019, 09:40:38 AM by Stuart »

Offline jostber

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Re: Charley Patton remasters
« Reply #29 on: January 29, 2019, 01:21:02 PM »
Another available recent Charley Patton compllation is in the Rough Guide series:

https://worldmusic.net/store/item/RGNET1268/




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