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I think American children ought to be taught about roots music, just like they're taught about Thomas Jefferson or Mark Twain - Pete Wernick

Author Topic: Patton Book?  (Read 2429 times)

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Offline wreid75

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Patton Book?
« on: October 24, 2014, 08:42:59 AM »
I just ran across this book on Patton online but I can't find it anywhere.  I have a librarian at a local library looking too.  Does anyone know about this particular book?

The Voice of the Delta: Charley (Charlie) Patton and the Mississippi blues traditions, influences, and comparisons : an international symposium Unknown Binding ? January 1, 1987

    Unknown Binding: 347 pages
    Publisher: Presses universitaires Liege; 2nd edition (1987)
    Language: English
    ISBN-10: 2870141637
    ISBN-13: 978-2870141632

Offline hardtimekillingfloor

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Re: Patton Book?
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2014, 08:47:19 AM »
Well I kn ow about the book In Tune: Charley Patton and Jimmy Rogers that is out but have yet to read it.  Calt/Wardlows book, Faheys book, and David Evans essay which is online free on pdf are the only other works on Patton I know of.

Offline Stuart

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Re: Patton Book?
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2014, 11:15:22 AM »
It's a conference volume. Here's the OCLC page:

http://www.worldcat.org/search?q=bn%3A2870141637&qt=advanced&dblist=638

#2 appears to list the largest number of libraries that have it in their holdings:

http://www.worldcat.org/title/voice-of-the-delta-charley-patton-and-the-mississippi-blues-traditions-influences-and-comparisons-an-international-symposium/oclc/23145298&referer=brief_results

Your local library should be able to get you a copy through Inter-Library Loan.

Although there is an e-Book listed, it doesn't appear that one is actually available. Nothing at Google Books either.

Offline jpeters609

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Re: Patton Book?
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2014, 11:16:51 AM »
I just ran across this book on Patton online but I can't find it anywhere.  I have a librarian at a local library looking too.  Does anyone know about this particular book?

It's a rare one. The book is a collection of essays presented at a symposium in Li?ge, Belgium, in 1984, in honor of the 50th anniversary of Patton's death. Contributors include David Evans, Arnold Shaw, Jim O'Neal, John Broven, Mike Rowe, Dick Shurman, and others. Edited by Robert Sacre. I doubt there were very many published in the first place, and it's long out of print. (I believe it was published in 1987, and I don't know if there was ever a re-printing.)
Jeff

Offline tinpanallygurl

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Re: Patton Book?
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2014, 01:08:50 PM »
Anyone got a pdf file of this lying around they are willing to share?  Or a site where it can be downloaded? 

Offline Kokomo O

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Re: Patton Book?
« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2014, 08:28:56 PM »
Doesn't look like any of the libraries has scanned it. If you have borrowing privileges from one of the listed university libraries, or live in NYC or Chicago, you might be able to borrow it.

Offline hardtimekillingfloor

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Re: Patton Book?
« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2014, 06:06:09 AM »
Quote
Anyone got a pdf file of this lying around they are willing to share?  Or a site where it can be downloaded? 

Don't hold your breath on pdf version.  I hope the inter library loan comes through.  I know of a few people who have a pdf of this but they have already seen this thread and would have responded if they wanted.  Just like anything else, sometimes people love knowing they have something or some information that others would kill for.  See thread about Mack McCormick and J. J. Sullivan fiasco.  Quotes there and lack of responses here says it all.

Offline wreid75

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Re: Patton Book?
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2014, 07:33:36 AM »
No worried Hard Time, I will find it.  There is a library out there that will let me get it, it might take a week or two.  The few I have found keep it in house and won't loan out.  I will stay diligent.

Offline uncle bud

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Re: Patton Book?
« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2014, 05:39:12 PM »
I just ran across this book on Patton online but I can't find it anywhere.  I have a librarian at a local library looking too.  Does anyone know about this particular book?

The Voice of the Delta: Charley (Charlie) Patton and the Mississippi blues traditions, influences, and comparisons : an international symposium Unknown Binding ? January 1, 1987

    Unknown Binding: 347 pages
    Publisher: Presses universitaires Liege; 2nd edition (1987)
    Language: English
    ISBN-10: 2870141637
    ISBN-13: 978-2870141632

How bizarre. Earlier this year I was asked to scan the review of this in Blues & Rhythm, 30 July 1987 (pps 9-11)

The three PDFs are approx 880k each and Weenie balks at my attaching/posting these.

Hmm, perhaps the size limit for attachments is per post, can't recall. An 880kb file should be totally fine, but the three PDFs may need to be attached in 3 separate posts. Happy to help as needed.

HardTime, probably not worth killing for. Symposium proceedings--I mean, I could see how one might die of boredom...

Just for the record, I'm not aware of there being a whole lot of hoarders and selfish collectors on this forum. It started out as a bunch of country blues guitar players, mostly, both amateur and professional, sharing information and thoughts about the music. I think it's still more or less like that. A number of other good people have joined in along the way.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2014, 05:50:03 PM by uncle bud »

Offline wreid75

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Re: Patton Book?
« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2014, 08:36:23 PM »
Quote
HardTime, probably not worth killing for.
  Nice! LMAO, okay more like an amused chuckle but you get my point.  In searching I found another book Come Home Charley Patton by Ralph Lemon.  Has anyone read this?  I am wondering if it actually has much to do with Patton and if it has any new info, stories anecdotes.  There is a quote on Amazon
Quote
He is also seeking traces of obscure blues musicians, especially the elusive Charley Patton, and not only does he intently look and listen, he also dances spontaneously in living rooms and open spaces.
If anyone has red it give shout! 

Offline Bunker Hill

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Re: Patton Book?
« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2014, 12:00:59 AM »
Voice of The Delta B&R Review 1

Offline Bunker Hill

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Re: Patton Book?
« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2014, 12:01:49 AM »
Voice of The Delta B&R Review 2

Offline Bunker Hill

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Re: Patton Book?
« Reply #12 on: October 31, 2014, 12:03:21 AM »
Voice of The Delta B&R Review3

Had to get them under 1mb for them to be accepted.

Offline dj

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Re: Patton Book?
« Reply #13 on: October 31, 2014, 05:30:36 AM »
Thanks for posting the review, Bunker Hill.  I've always wondered about that book.

Quote
...it is well worth it for the Evans article alone

I believe the David Evans article was reprinted in the notes to the Revenant Patton CD set.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2014, 08:51:25 AM by dj »

Offline Stuart

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Re: Patton Book?
« Reply #14 on: October 31, 2014, 08:43:50 AM »
Thanks for doing the scan and upload, Alan.
__________________________________________

For anyone interested in owning a copy, there's a used copy available via Amazon in France:

http://www.amazon.fr//gp/offer-listing/2870141637/sr=/qid=/?condition=used&tag=bf-dt-home-2-21

« Last Edit: October 31, 2014, 09:17:07 AM by Stuart »

Offline Bunker Hill

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Re: Patton Book?
« Reply #15 on: October 31, 2014, 09:12:32 AM »
Thanks for doing the scan and upload, Alan.

There's a used copy available via Amazon in France
I don't doubt that Ray Templeton, who wrote the review, will still have a copy. Next port of call will be to contact him on RBF via the dreaded FB and hope that he's up to scanning it. ::)

Offline Stuart

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Re: Patton Book?
« Reply #16 on: October 31, 2014, 09:20:13 AM »
Hi Alan:

I didn't mean to suggest that you purchase the copy I posted the link to. It was meant for anyone interested. Sorry for the confusion. I've modified my post.

Offline uncle bud

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Re: Patton Book?
« Reply #17 on: October 31, 2014, 07:09:52 PM »
Wasn't the Evans essay from the Revenant set reproduced on the Paramountshome website?

Thanks for those jpgs, Bunker Hill!
« Last Edit: October 31, 2014, 07:25:02 PM by uncle bud »


Offline wreid75

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Re: Patton Book?
« Reply #19 on: November 03, 2014, 07:59:51 PM »
I wasn't sure if that was the same essay by david evans.  I have the local library trying to get me the whole thing from a local university.  keeping fingers crossed.  I seem to have the same irrational draw to Charley Patton that many other people have for Robert Johnson

Offline tinpanallygurl

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Re: Patton Book?
« Reply #20 on: November 03, 2014, 08:28:29 PM »
Hi boys.  I just found this book on amazon.  Charley Patton Unauthorized and Uncensored by R.B Grimm.  It is cheap but it doesn't say much about it either.  Anyone know about it?

Offline jpeters609

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Re: Patton Book?
« Reply #21 on: November 05, 2014, 04:55:03 AM »
Over on the Real Blues Forum, Robert Sacre (the editor of the Patton book), indicates that they are planning a new edition. He has been contacting the contributors. Whether this will be a re-print or an updated version is unclear.
Jeff

Offline tinpanallygurl

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Re: Patton Book?
« Reply #22 on: November 05, 2014, 05:28:07 AM »
I so hope that these rewrites of previous research and manuscripts on Charley Patton are due to an increase in what is known with new or omitted research and information that hasn't been rehashed at length.  A new book with a different tone but same information seems pointless.  If there are only a few pages of new information it seems that is what an article if for, and with magazines, sites, blogs, and journals there seems no shortage of ways to get info out.  Here is to hoping that reissuing old books are done with more than dollar signs in mind  :-*

Offline Stuart

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Re: Patton Book?
« Reply #23 on: November 05, 2014, 08:52:03 AM »
We'll just have to wait and see. Hopefully the contributors will revise and update their papers, and write for a wider market. ---And hopefully price and availability be among their considerations.

Offline Johnm

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Re: Patton Book?
« Reply #24 on: November 05, 2014, 12:36:53 PM »
Hi all,
I don't think it makes much sense to fret over the possibility of authors or publishers of books on Charlie Patton raking in the big bucks.  For the authors, I think it is more of an issue of simply hoping to get some kind of adequate recompense to cover the time, labor, and effort involved in obtaining the material, (which in some instances took their entire adult lives to compile) and working it up into a readable format.  For the publishers, the question is whether enough books are going to sell to justify the investment of entering into a contract with the author and designing, editing and publishing the book.
I hope the authors and publishers of such books do make some kind of decent return for these books--for the authors enough money to justify the time they've already spent collecting information on the topic and putting it in some kind of coherent form, and enough on top of that to make them feel justified in continuing research into related topics.  For the publishers, I hope that they make enough money so that they don't reject the possibility of putting out any books on Country Blues topics in the future, assuming they'll be money-losing ventures. 
All best,
Johnm         

Offline tinpanallygurl

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Re: Patton Book?
« Reply #25 on: November 05, 2014, 02:15:28 PM »
JohnM, I couldn't agree more, as long as it has enough new information to warrant a new book.  The difference between Fahey's Patton book and Calt/Wardlows book was night and day, even with its caustic commentary.  I have made fun of Star Wars for changing less than three minuets of a movie and having to watch the entire movie to see the deleted scenes.  Its not a new movie, its the same old movie with three new minuets that were originally cut out.  A rewrite of an old book with very little new information seems like the perfect opportunity to make a great article with that info, instead of a book that is 99.8675309 % the same as the one on my shelf with 2 1/2 pages of newish information.  I hope there is so much new info that we are flabbergasted with unknown data and facts that it will make our head spin making us reevaluate everything we thought we knew about Charley Patton.  I would do a naked happy dance down times square to get that kind of book!  With my grandma watching!

Offline Stuart

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Re: Patton Book?
« Reply #26 on: November 05, 2014, 04:24:53 PM »
It's common for the support for a conference to include funding publication of the papers presented at the conference. Usually they are revised based on the feedback from the attendees. So publication considerations are different from shopping a manuscript around for commercial publication.

I have no insider info about this project, but as I said I'm hopeful that the papers can be revised to include new info and published for a wider readership. --Or at a minimum make the original volume available as a "book on demand" at a reasonable price.

Offline hardtimekillingfloor

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Re: Patton Book?
« Reply #27 on: November 10, 2014, 02:00:55 PM »
Quote
For the authors, I think it is more of an issue of simply hoping to get some kind of adequate recompense to cover the time, labor, and effort involved in obtaining the material, (which in some instances took their entire adult lives to compile) and working it up into a readable format.

I am all for paying good money for a book that has lots of information I don't already know.  I have a few copies of the same books with different translations, which changes the story in some cases, sometimes drastically.  If the reissuing of a book is done with just a few pages of new info I will keep the old one, check out the new one, xerox off the new info and cram it in the old book.  If there are lots of revision, corrections, and new discoveries in a new book on Patton it would be well worth my hard earned money. 

I'm afraid most of us will die with the biographical information of our dearly loved musicians rotting in a cabinet or on a bookshelf somewhere.  I would like to think that the next generation cares as much about this stuff and will do the hard work to get the information out there.  Sad thing is, no one will give a damn when people come to the realization that "their life's work" isn't the moneymaker they (or their families) think it is.  Those of us who really care are getting old or older quickly.  Many have already died, others are sick, and some slowly fading.  It would be nice if those of us who have this emotional attachment to all this information could see it before we enter the great beyond.  Some we will, most we won't.  Its sad really.  Someone in 2088 will finally dust off a box  that has hand written notes about somebody known as the devils son in law or some dude name Son.  They will publish it somewhere, and a few people will read it.  The emotions, of the few of us that remain who care more than about the music, these raw emotions will be long gone, dust in the wind, without even a fading memory of the people who actually met some of them and loved even more.

Offline wreid75

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Re: Patton Book?
« Reply #28 on: November 11, 2014, 11:25:47 PM »
Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaammmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Hardtime!  That is one depressing post.  You might want to watch the movie As Good As It Gets.  Jack Nicholson goes back on his meds mid way through the movie.  There are some of us that have lots of tread still left, and some of our hi mileage brethren may be getting older but still have lots of drive.  I don't think it is time to start digging graves just yet and all hope is not lost..............yet. 

You are somewhat right on your topic.  I am in my 30s and I expect to learn the bulk of the info you are discussing when I am in my 70s.  I think it will be that long before the grandchildren or great grandchildren of researchers who have lots of historic loot will finally donate it to libraries or share them online through sites and blogs.  Even by then there will still be those few of us in our 20s and 30s alive and kicking to be passionate about whatever revelations bestowed upon us, but not the same kind of passionate.

Offline wreid75

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Re: Patton Book?
« Reply #29 on: November 11, 2014, 11:31:03 PM »
I say different kind of passionate because my age group didn't get to know these people in person, we didn't find the artist like our 60s era forefathers.  I am sure that researchers that pounded the turf for L.V. and Geechee with empty results felt a different sense of euphoria than those of us who only read your books and liner notes.  If someone finds old notes that reveals the bio of Kid Bailey I can't imagine anyone being more thrilled than GDW.

Offline wreid75

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Re: Patton Book?
« Reply #30 on: November 11, 2014, 11:36:49 PM »
Sorry for blowing up the board, last one I promise.  I love the fact that there are so many sources for Charley Patton with more to come.  I hope more bios will enter the pipeline for the other artists.  One thing to remember, to the population at large Patton is no more famous now than Roosevelt Sykes, Peetie Wheatstraw, and Joe Holmes.  The roadblocks of writing a book and getting it published through major publishing houses are very real, but now there are alternatives.  Maybe blues researchers will finally take to the web like other kinds of books and publish electronically instead of print.  No reason to let a dream die nowadays.  I may be wrong but who wouldn't buy a blues book for download especially knowing that writers often receive more money this way.

Offline tinpanallygurl

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Re: Patton Book?
« Reply #31 on: November 17, 2014, 10:06:51 AM »
Come Home Charley Patton by Ralph Lemon is a book that is out.  Has anyone read this?

Offline Stuart

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Re: Patton Book?
« Reply #32 on: November 17, 2014, 11:08:07 AM »
Our library system has several copies--one in the local branch. I'll try to remember to pick it up the next time I'm there. Based on what I've read however, it appears to be more of a personal memoir than a book about CP. But we'll see once I get my grubby little mitts on a copy and have a chance to eyeball it in the flesh.

FYI: http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/28/arts/dance/28wave.html

Offline Stuart

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Re: Patton Book?
« Reply #33 on: November 18, 2014, 12:59:12 PM »
Picked it up this morning and browsed through it. It is not a book about Charley Patton. That does not mean that it's not worth reading as it looks quite interesting, IMHO. Read what you can find about it on the Web and if that piques your interest, get a copy through your local library.

Offline wreid75

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Re: Patton Book?
« Reply #34 on: December 01, 2014, 09:45:27 AM »
I am in the process of reading "In Tune: Charley Patton, Jimmy Rogers and roots of American Music."  I am at page 70 and I have learned less about these two men than an abbreviated wiki page.  I have been retaught about life in the south during that time and reeducated on tensions between blacks and whites, something I had  yet to forget seeing as I live in the south.  I have yet to determine who this book was written for.  If it is for students to teach them about the south then the first 70 pages are kind of, in a way, somewhat, maybe, sort of on target.  If it is about teaching students about the singers, the first 70 pages have failed miserably.  Calt/Wardlow would be a much better pick for Patton.  If this book was written for those of us who love to read about country blues singers then I hope it gets a lot better.  There is no new information in the first 70 pages that can't be gleaned from a multitude of online sources.  I will post a follow up as I plow through this thing. 

Offline hardtimekillingfloor

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Re: Patton Book?
« Reply #35 on: December 01, 2014, 10:15:33 AM »
I finished InTune last week and I have a more substantial complaint.  That is the toughest paper I have ever had to use.  It is the pure definition of John Wayne,  rough and tough and wont take $#!T off no one.  Should have made the paper softer.  That said I am excited that Wardlow has a new Patton book coming out with Ed Komara!  More Wardlow and less Calt will vastly improve King of the Delta blues.

Offline tinpanallygurl

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Re: Patton Book?
« Reply #36 on: December 01, 2014, 12:01:47 PM »
Quote
It is the pure definition of John Wayne,  rough and tough and wont take $#!T off no one.

Stop being a Richard.  No point in it.

Offline wreid75

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Re: Patton Book?
« Reply #37 on: December 08, 2014, 02:12:51 PM »
I am mostly done with the In Tune Charley Patton Jimmy Rogers book.  This is the thing.  If this is for students taking a class in school to compare and contrast the two and learn basic info on both singers it is an okay book.  There is more info in Faheys book  and this is a far cry from the Calt Wardlow book and David Evans essays on Patton.  IF you already know a little bit about Patton and how oppressive the south was back then and how it ended up that way then you don't need to read this book.  If you really want to know about race relations, the south cast system, jim crow, and southern history or want to really know about both singers you don't need to read this book.  There are much better books.  If  you want to know a little about this but just a taste then okay I guess the book is alright.  Unless the final few pages contain a map leading to a secret location where the unissued masters of Patton.s recordings accompanied by Patton's own personal diary filled with his inner most thoughts are located then this was an unnecessary book to read.  On the flip side I finally got a copy of Voice of the Delta and I have really enjoyed this.  I wish I would have been to this event. 

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