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I know my doggie when I hear him bark. I can tell my rider if I feel her in the dark - Charley Patton, Banty Rooster Blues

Author Topic: Miller's Breakdown  (Read 123164 times)

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Offline Stuart

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Re: Miller's Breakdown
« Reply #2145 on: June 04, 2020, 03:20:21 PM »
John, that "Duckin' and Dodgin'" has a texture that reminds me weirdly of Fahey's "Downfall of the Adelphi Rolling Grist Mill." Very few pieces manage to do that!
Chris

I listened to them both and I hear a similarity in what I can best describe as a chopping rhythmic sound. Whether or not I would have made the connection without Chris' prompt is another matter, but Chris' sense of the similarity is not without basis, IMHO.

"Downfall..." was first released on LP in 1963. Nancy McLean plays the flute, IIRC.

Offline David Kaatz

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Re: Miller's Breakdown
« Reply #2146 on: June 06, 2020, 09:13:14 AM »
For the first time in a long time, I'll play this game.
I hear Hogman Maxey as playing Duckin' and Dodgin' in Spanish tuning, yet playing in the relative key of D.

Guitar Welch sounds like he is playing Electric Chair Blues in standard tuning, key of A. Although I think this could also be played in Vestapol capoed up 2 frets, or tuned up, I believe that to be unlikely (especially unlikely capoed) because of how up the neck he plays some portions.

Thanks John,
Dave

Offline Lyndvs

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Re: Miller's Breakdown
« Reply #2147 on: June 06, 2020, 10:05:00 AM »
Hogman=Standard tuning,E position capo around third fret.
Guitar Welch=Spanish.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2020, 10:08:31 AM by Lyndvs »

Offline Prof Scratchy

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Re: Miller's Breakdown
« Reply #2148 on: June 06, 2020, 03:01:05 PM »
Ill go with E standard for Hogman Maxey and Spanish for Guitar Welch, as Lyndvs says.

Offline Forgetful Jones

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Re: Miller's Breakdown
« Reply #2149 on: June 07, 2020, 06:58:18 AM »
I think Hogman Maxey (what a name!) is in E position, standard tuning tuned down about a step. This song reminds me of another song recorded at Angola- Robert Pete Williams "I'm Blue as a Man Can Be."

I think Guitar Welch is playing in Spanish tuning. There are some elements that remind me of Furry Lewis's pieces in Spanish tuning.

Good songs. I'm not familiar with either artist.

Offline Old Man Ned

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Re: Miller's Breakdown
« Reply #2150 on: June 07, 2020, 09:15:05 AM »
I'm struggling a bit with Hogman Maxey's "Duckin' and Dodgin'". E stranded, just about sums up my answer. Is he playing a 12 string, tuned quite low?

Guitar Welch's "Electric Chair Blues" I'm hearing in A standard.

All the best,
Ned

Online Johnm

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Re: Miller's Breakdown
« Reply #2151 on: June 10, 2020, 09:48:59 AM »
Hi all,
Any more takers for the Hogman Maxey and Guitar Welch puzzlers?  Come one, come all!
All best,
Johnm

Offline blueshome

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Re: Miller's Breakdown
« Reply #2152 on: June 11, 2020, 07:09:28 AM »
A last got round to this with guitars handy.
Going with E standard and Spanish

\really interesting examples.

Online Johnm

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Re: Miller's Breakdown
« Reply #2153 on: June 17, 2020, 11:15:55 AM »
Hi all,
It appears that everyone who intended to post answers to the Hogman Maxey and Guitar Welch puzzlers has done so, so I'll post the answers.

For Hogman Maxey's "Duckin' and Dodgin', his playing position/tuning was E in standard tuning, as a number of you had it.  He's pretty much living at the fourth fret of the third string and the third fret of the second string in his I chord, then sliding it down and ending up in an E at the base of the neck (or at least a partial fingering there).  For his solos, he takes his default position up two frets to 6-5 on the third and second strings, respectively, and riffs out of the position there, fretting the seventh fret of the first string and the bent eighth fret of the second string, intermittently, as well.

For Guitar Welch's "Electric Chair Blues", his playing position/tuning was Spanish tuning.  Probably the biggest give-away of the tuning being Spanish rather than A position in standard tuning is his V7 chord at :29--32, where he has a pick-up slide into the third of the I chord, landing on the root of the V7 chord on the downbeat of the ninth bar, and voicing the chord on the three strings above that 5-b7-R.  In Spanish, that V7 voicing ends up being 0-2-1-0, moving from the fourth string to the first string.  In A in standard tuning, the same sound would be fretted at 2-4-3-0 on the same strings, certainly not an impossible fingering, but at the same time a non-intuitive one.  And if you're playing in A in standard tuning, the natural thing for your V7 chord would be to voice the E7 chord with its third played at the first fret of the third string.

Dr. Harry Oster certainly found some wonderful musicians among the inmates at Angola Penitentiary when he recorded there in the late '50s and early '60s.  Hogman Maxey doesn't have that many titles available, but everything he did record has killer time, really outstanding, and Guitar Welch was similarly a strong player, and perhaps a bit more versatile than Maxey, at least on the basis of the recorded evidence.  I suspect Dr. Oster had something of the personal qualities of George Mitchell--they both seemed to elicit such strong takes  from the musicians they recorded.  And I suppose they didn't release the weaker takes.

Thanks to the people who posted answers to the puzzlers and I hope folks enjoyed the songs.  I'll look for some other songs to post as puzzlers soon.
All best,
Johnm

Online Johnm

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Re: Miller's Breakdown
« Reply #2154 on: June 25, 2020, 05:32:10 PM »
Hi all,
I just found two tunes by an artist I really like who didn't have many titles released, so I thought I'd put them in a puzzler.  The musician is David Wylie.  He recorded a couple of titles around 1950 for Regal.  The first song is "You're Gonna Weep And Moan", and here it is:



The questions on David Wylie's "You're Gonna Weep And Moan" are:
   * What playing position/tuning did he use to play the song?
   * From what song did he copy the little bass run lick that plays a couple of times in the course of his rendition, and what was the playing position/tuning of that source performance?

The second song, also by David Wylie, is "Baby, You Don't Mean Me No Good".  Here it is:



The question on David Wylie's "Baby, You Don't Mean Me No Good" are:
   *  What playing position/tuning did David Wylie use to play the song?

Please use only your ears and your guitars to come up with your answers, and please don't post any answers before 8:00 AM your time on Monday, June 29.  Thanks for participating and I hope you enjoy the songs.

All best,
Johnm

 

Offline blueshome

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Re: Miller's Breakdown
« Reply #2155 on: June 29, 2020, 07:17:57 AM »
Ill take a punt,
C standard for both.
The run from JLHs Crawling Kingsnake was originally played out of Spanish tuning

Offline Prof Scratchy

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Re: Miller's Breakdown
« Reply #2156 on: June 29, 2020, 12:47:55 PM »
I think both performances are in A standard capoed at the third fret, sounding in C. The bass run sounds like John Lee Hooker, as blueshome says.

Offline Forgetful Jones

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Re: Miller's Breakdown
« Reply #2157 on: June 29, 2020, 04:44:47 PM »
Good songs. I've never heard of David Wylie before.

I think both tunes are in standard tuning, A position capo'd up a bit.

The bass run lick comes from John Lee Hooker's Hobo Blues, which is in Spanish tuning.

Offline Old Man Ned

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Re: Miller's Breakdown
« Reply #2158 on: June 30, 2020, 01:26:29 PM »
Never heard of Davis Wylie before and loving these tunes. I agree, I'm hearing both of these in A standard capoed at the 3rd, assuming he's tuned to pitch. Also, hearing John Lee Hooker for the bass run, though it's not coming to mind, which tune.

All the best,
Ned

Offline rein

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Re: Miller's Breakdown
« Reply #2159 on: June 30, 2020, 02:44:05 PM »
I think the first one is in A, with the bass run of Hobo Blues (though I think John Lee Hooker also used it on some other songs). The second sounds to me more like it is in Spanish.

 


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