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Author Topic: Miller's Breakdown  (Read 105736 times)

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Offline dunplaying

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Miller's Breakdown
« Reply #135 on: June 29, 2014, 09:22:09 AM »
I agree with you chaps . A difficult exercise but well worth the effort. Let 's hope the thread continues.

Offline Johnm

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Miller's Breakdown
« Reply #136 on: July 11, 2014, 01:05:18 PM »
Hi all,
I'm glad that folks who have participated have been enjoying this thread.  I'm not home long enough right now to post a new puzzler, but I will be in about a week.
All best,
johnm

Offline Johnm

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Miller's Breakdown
« Reply #137 on: July 20, 2014, 12:39:36 PM »
Hi all,
I've been away so much that I haven't had time to post a new song to this thread for almost a month, but I have a little window now and time to post a new puzzler.  The song here is "Trouble", performed by Reese Crenshaw, who also recorded a version of "John Henry" that I put up in the John Henry thread.  I know nothing about Crenshaw in the biographical sense, but wonder if he was recorded at the Fort Valley Folk Festival, since he appears on the same album with Sonny Chestain, who was recorded at that festival.  In any event, here is Reese Crenshaw's recording of "Trouble":     




I have most of Reese Crenshaw's lyrics, and would really appreciate help with the bent-bracketed passages.

Trouble, trouble, been had it all my days
Trouble, trouble, been had it all my days
Lord, I feel like trouble carries me to my grave

If it hadn't-a been for you, partner, wouldn't even been here today
If it hadn't-a been for you, partner, wouldn't even have been here today
Lord, it seem like trouble's always in my face

Said, I walked so hard, babe, 'til I feel it down in my knees
I walked so hard, babe, 'til I feel it down in my knees
Misfortune's in their eyes, never seen "If you please"

Just fall in, brother, take a trip with me
Just fall in, brother, take a trip with me
I'm gonna take you where your troubles gonna let you be

Ain't but one thing, blues, that worry my mind
They ain't but one thing, blues, that worries my mind
Ain't but one thing, blues, worries my mind
They keep me troubled and troubled all the time

I wanta tell you one thing but I want you to understand
I'm gonna tell you thing, but I want you to understand
If that's your gal, I'm gonna take her from your hand

Don't you see here, baby, see what you done done?
Want you see here, baby, see what you done done
Want you to see here, baby, see what you done done
You made me love you, now your man done come

Lord, it's troubles, troubles, troubles, I feel sad
I say it's troubles, troubles, troubles, I feel sad
I woke up this morning, trouble every day

Goin' away, babe, cryin' don't make me stay
Says, I'm goin' away, baby, cryin' don't make me stay
I'm goin' away, baby, cryin' don't make me stay
More you cry, pretty mama, further you drive me away

Now if anybody ask you, people, who composed this song
I says, if anybody ask you, people, who composed this song
Tell 'em cool people's companions, babe, 'as been here and gone

The questions for "Trouble" are:
   * What position/tuning did Reese Crenshaw play the song out of?
   * Where (relative to tuning/capo placement) did he finger the ascending bass run from :50--:52?
   * How does he vary his chord progression starting at 2:34?  What are the three chords he plays before resolving to his I chord?
   * Where does he finger the ascending lick from 3:13--3:15?

As always, please use only your ear, experience and instrument to answer these questions.  Please don't post any answers until Tuesday, July 22, so that lots of people can listen and come up with their own ideas of how Reese Crenshaw played the song.  I hope you have fun with it.

Lyrics edited 7/22 with help from Davek and Johnm

All best,
Johnm

« Last Edit: July 25, 2014, 06:37:01 AM by Johnm »

Offline dunplaying

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Miller's Breakdown
« Reply #138 on: July 22, 2014, 03:40:57 AM »
As usual I am baffled but I will take a stab at standard tuning, capo at 2nd fret and played out of a G position.

Offline harvey

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Miller's Breakdown
« Reply #139 on: July 22, 2014, 07:21:05 AM »
No way near touching a guitar this week so I am on very shacky ground. Sounds in spanish to me, I would say capoed up a bit but no way of telling where.

I say spanish because some of the runs sound like Memphis Minnie type runs like on When the Levee breaks.

That was as far as I got I am afraid.

 

Edit was : Mini ! I am blaming Iphone spell checker
« Last Edit: July 23, 2014, 02:31:53 AM by harvey »

Offline dunplaying

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« Reply #140 on: July 22, 2014, 07:45:19 AM »
Funny that you should say that Harvey as I thought it had shades of My Baby by Bo Carter which is in Spanish.
I will go and try again.  :(
« Last Edit: July 22, 2014, 01:46:33 PM by dunplaying »

Offline Prof Scratchy

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Miller's Breakdown
« Reply #141 on: July 22, 2014, 11:28:15 AM »
I'm on North Uist with no internet connection and dodgy phone reception,, so will have to give this one a miss!

Sent from my HUAWEI MT1-U06 using Tapatalk


Offline David Kaatz

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Miller's Breakdown
« Reply #142 on: July 22, 2014, 04:23:31 PM »
As far as the lyrics, at the end of the third verse, I can't make it all out but I am hearing:
Misfortune in your eyes, [   ] if you please

the last verse, it sounds like it might be:
Tell them two people companions, been to here and gone

Dave


Offline Johnm

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« Reply #143 on: July 22, 2014, 05:49:55 PM »
Thanks for the help with the lyrics, Dave.  Any other takers for the questions pertaining to how the song is played?  Come one, come all!
All best,
Johnm

Offline Pan

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Miller's Breakdown
« Reply #144 on: July 22, 2014, 06:19:24 PM »
Hi all

First of all, I?m sorry about not being able to help with the lyrics.

Secondly, I?ll agree with dunplaying about standard tuning, G position, pitched at A. My reasonings are the following; the bass and treble runs, and chord voicings seem to indicate G position in standard, The bass line doesn?t go below the low root note, except for the instance where there?s a chromatic walkdown to the VI chord, which is also typical for the G position in standard, since no low 5th for the I chord is available. There?s a #IVdim7 chord thrown in too, which you usually come across in standard tuning. Also, the I chord seems to have a root note on top, two octaves above the bass, which is common for the G position in standard.

Quote
* Where (relative to tuning/capo placement) did he finger the ascending bass run from :50--:52?

Sounds to me, like the bass run starts at the 5th string, going up chromatically from frets 2,3,4, and to the open 4th string, then the fingering and sequence is repeated on strings 4 and 3.

Quote
* How does he vary his chord progression starting at 2:34?  What are the three chords he plays before resolving to his I chord?

As mentioned above there?s a chromatic walkdown to the open 6th string, followed by a VI7 - II7 - V7 - I progression, fingered something like 0-2-2-1-3-0 (E7), then X-0-2-2-2-3 (A7), to X (0)-0-2-1-2 (D7), to X-X-(0)-0-0-3 (G).

Quote
* Where does he finger the ascending lick from 3:13--3:15?

This sounds like a broken run in thirds, played at the 3rd and 2nd strings; 0-0; to 2-1; to 3-2; to 4-3, lower string mentioned first.

Cheers

Pan

Online Norfolk Slim

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Miller's Breakdown
« Reply #145 on: July 23, 2014, 01:03:23 AM »
OK. No instrument here but I'm not convinced by g standard because the root sounds like an open bass string to me.  Which leads me to open g given the Minnie type licks that Harvey mentioned. But then the dim cords I know in open g are a movement of the g7 towards the headstock and the one in this tune is higher in pitch than its starting point. Which in turn takes me to A standard, for which I find some support in those lemony licks up the neck.

In short, I don't know. But I'm plumping for A.

Offline Johnm

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« Reply #146 on: July 23, 2014, 09:34:03 AM »
Hi all,
Thanks to everyone who participated in figuring out the lyrics and the way Reese Crenshaw played his song "Troubles".  Congratulations to dunplaying, who correctly identified the playing position, G position in standard tuning, in the very first response--well done!  Congratulations to Pan, too, who in addition to getting the playing position, answered all of the follow-up questions spot on.  Good hearing, Pan, and good explanations, too!
Simon was right on in noting a Lemon Jefferson influence.  One of the interesting things about Lemon is that on occasion he played licks up the neck that he normally played out of the A position in the G position as well, as in "Got The Blues".  That's what Reese Crenshaw was doing here.  I think one of the most mysterious aspects of Reese Crenshaw's playing on this track is what he was doing in the right hand.  He sounds like he could have been flat-picking, and if he was, he had a very smooth and varied technique that way, being able to move seamlessly from single-string melodic passages to beautifully controlled brush strokes and tricky cross-string moves, like his turn-around in which he walks down the fourth string from the third fret to the open fourth string, alternating up to the open third string between each of the descending notes.  Crenshaw may also have been playing with a thumb pick and fingers, a la Lemon, and perhaps that is a more plausible explanation of what he was doing in the right hand.
One of the other things that struck me about Crenshaw's playing here is how he was a font of ideas--he's still playing licks on the last two verses that he had not previously played in the rendition, and the track is long, 3:35.  That's quite unusual.  Some of his licks I have never heard played before by anyone in the style.  There's a particularly nifty one he starts around :59 where he rocks between a G out of the F shape on the top three strings, 4-3-3 and a D7 on the top three strings, but a very unusual one, arrived at via contrary motion on the first and third strings, 5-3-2, with the third fret of the second string sort of acting as a hinge between the two voicings.  Other unusual aspects of his playing here are that I don't think he plays a single IV chord, C, with the third fret of the fifth string, the low root, in the bass in the entire rendition, and his low root G at the third fret of the sixth string is very de-emphasized.  He hardly hits it at all, and only in passing.
Hearing so many stellar performances recently by musicians who were only field recorded, and never did commercial recordings, has made me realize how shaky it is to set up a hierarchy of skills or pecking order of the various Country Blues musicians who recorded, saying, "This one was the best.", or even "This one was the best at _______."  Hearing the performances of these field recorded musicians who may have recorded only a title or two but who acquitted themselves so admirably on those few recordings, makes me aware of the "tip-of-the-iceberg" quality that so much of their playing had.  Going back in the thread, wouldn't you like to hear more titles from Little Brother, Big Boy, Jesse Wadley, Wallace Chains, Eddie Bowles, and Reese Crenshaw?  Boy, I would--they were as good as anybody out there!
Thanks to all who participated, and I'll post another tune very soon.
All best,
Johnm 

Offline dunplaying

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Miller's Breakdown
« Reply #147 on: July 23, 2014, 09:56:29 AM »
Very well done Pan.
A brilliant answer.

Offline Johnm

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Miller's Breakdown
« Reply #148 on: July 23, 2014, 10:36:32 AM »
Hi all,
Here is another song to work on, Boy Green's "A and B Blues".  I know nothing about Boy Green in the biographical sense, but it looks like he was from the Carolinas probably.  Here is the song:



SOLO

Well, these A B Blues, sure is goin' hard with me
Well, these A & B Blues, sure is goin' hard with me
Yes, they sure has got me rockin', like a ship on the stormy sea

Well, it was so many times I had her by my side
So many times I had her by my side
Now, when I speak to her, she won't even smile

I knowed I did wrong, baby, can't you understand?
I knowed I did wrong, can't you understand?
Now, that I could do better, good as any other man

SOLO

You may have some friend, I don't have no friend at all
You may have some friend, I don't have no friend at all
And you won't even answer, baby, when I call

SOLO

The questions about his rendition are:
   * What position/tuning did he play the song out of?
   * Where did he fret his IV chord that falls at :09--:11 in his performance?
   * Where did he finger the little V7-I resolution that falls at :14--:15?
   * Where did he finger the lick he plays at :23--:24?

As usual, use ears and instruments only in figuring out your answers, please.  Please don't post any responses until Friday, July 26 to give lots of people a chance to listen, and thanks for your participation.

All best,
Johnm
« Last Edit: December 31, 2017, 06:25:51 AM by Johnm »

Offline dunplaying

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Miller's Breakdown
« Reply #149 on: July 25, 2014, 04:38:22 AM »
 I will try standard tuning ,capo 2nd fret and played out of an E position.
Another good song.


 


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