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Don't jive every girl you see in the street, there's other kind o' pork besides pigmeat - "It Still Ain't No Good (New It Ain't No Good)", Mississippi Blacksnakes

Author Topic: Miller's Breakdown  (Read 106286 times)

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Offline Prof Scratchy

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Miller's Breakdown
« Reply #105 on: June 17, 2014, 09:56:21 AM »
I'm going to venture that he had the guitar tuned a way low (maybe D for E), then capoed at 4 and played in C position.

Offline dunplaying

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Miller's Breakdown
« Reply #106 on: June 17, 2014, 10:35:05 AM »
Maybe in D,capoed at the second fret .  I think I can hear "Misty" and "The Glory Of Love" in there.
Another smashing track.
EDIT I mean played with C position to sound D.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2014, 10:37:57 AM by dunplaying »

Offline ScottN

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Miller's Breakdown
« Reply #107 on: June 17, 2014, 12:59:23 PM »
A vote for C position capoed at the second.  The way some of the baselines are played that resolve to the I chord seems to fit under the hand better.

Offline harvey

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Miller's Breakdown
« Reply #108 on: June 17, 2014, 02:45:03 PM »
C capo 2 as well for me. I have been trying all night to replicate the pitch and that is the closest I get. Interesting what The Prof has suggested as the strings sound quite slack however I am not sure how I anyone would no for sure ?

Offline Pan

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Miller's Breakdown
« Reply #109 on: June 17, 2014, 02:50:53 PM »
Hi all

C position, sounding at D for me as well. What a great song again, some very pretty chord voicings there as well.

Cheers

Pan

Offline Johnm

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Miller's Breakdown
« Reply #110 on: June 18, 2014, 09:59:18 AM »
Hi all,
Eddie Bowles played his "Blues" out of C position in standard tuning as a good number of you had it.  He may well have been tuned low and then capoed, for his fifth and sixth strings sound a little slack on a couple of the licks he plays.  Like Wallace Chains, he had so many interesting sounds and ideas in his rendition that you could study it for a long time.  Given that he was playing in C position, please answer as many of the following questions as you wish.
   * Where is he fretting the rocking motion at :07--:11?  What strings are being fretted in the two positions and where are they being fretted?
   * Where is he fretting the chord he plays at :23--:25 and where does he fret the chord he resolves that chord into, at :26--:29?
   * Where is he fretting the chord he plays at 1:10--1:12?
Please don't feel you should be able to figure these answers out without trying things out on your guitars.  Listening and guitars would be a good way to go in figuring out your answers.  No transcription software, please.  Please don't post any answers until Thursday, June 19, and I'll post again on Friday in the PM.  Thanks for participating.
All best,
Johnm

Offline dunplaying

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Miller's Breakdown
« Reply #111 on: June 19, 2014, 12:37:54 AM »
Perhaps the rocking is between xxx023 and xxx025. A7 to A.

Maybe an upstroke xx3000 which leads to x23000 and resolves to C.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2014, 03:27:48 AM by dunplaying »

Offline Prof Scratchy

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Miller's Breakdown
« Reply #112 on: June 19, 2014, 11:50:50 AM »
For the rocking bit at 07-11 is he simply playing a first position C chord with the pinkie on the 1st string 3rd fret, then moving this whole position up a couple of frets so he sounds the melody on the first string 5th fret, then back again to the C chord (with G)?
For the .23 to.25 bit, is he playing a D9 partial (x5455x) resolving to a G7/6 (323000)?
Is the chord at 1.10 to 1.12 a first position Fm7?

These are the speculations from Scratchy Towers where I have been overcome by the unseasonable Edinburgh heat and am not quite myself. (Which may mean that I might be closer to right for once)! (Or most likely not).
« Last Edit: June 19, 2014, 11:51:55 AM by Prof Scratchy »

Offline mr mando

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Miller's Breakdown
« Reply #113 on: June 19, 2014, 03:22:55 PM »
With guitar in hand:

0:07 to 0:11:  C (x32013) to Gm9 (xx5335)
0:23 to 0:29: D9 (xx4210) to G13 (3x3000)
1:10 to 1:12: Fm7 (x31111)

Offline Pan

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Miller's Breakdown
« Reply #114 on: June 19, 2014, 06:43:10 PM »
Hi all

Here are my guesstimations:

Quote
* Where is he fretting the rocking motion at :07--:11?  What strings are being fretted in the two positions and where are they being fretted?
- I believe he's playing the rocking motion between a C9 and a C13 chord, fingered x-3-2-3-3-3, and x-3-2-3-3-5.  This is a fairly modern sound to my ear, something you might encounter in the playing of T-Bone Walker, or phrased a little differently, in the playing of the rhythm guitar players of the rhythm & blues/ funk star James Brown.

Quote
* Where is he fretting the chord he plays at :23--:25 and where does he fret the chord he resolves that chord into, at :26--:29?
- Here I agree with Mr. Mando. I think the sound of the II9 chord with the 3rd in bass is very distinctive, and I associate this chord progression with William Moore's "Ragtime Millionaire", where he plays a little similar chord voicings in the intro (although he doesn't play the open E string on top of the D chord, and he voices the G13 chord a little differently).  I also associate these kind of chord voicings with the classical piano ragtime players' right hand voicings, take for example Scott Joplin's "The Entertainer", which has very similar passages. The brief target I chord sounds like a 1st position C chord to me.

Quote
* Where is he fretting the chord he plays at 1:10--1:12?
- This sounds to me like a bVI6 chord (relative to the IVm7), so I would guess the fingering could be something like 4-x-1-1-1-1.

Looking forward to hear the verdict again!

Cheers

Pan
« Last Edit: June 20, 2014, 04:51:19 AM by Pan »

Offline mr mando

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Miller's Breakdown
« Reply #115 on: June 20, 2014, 12:22:37 AM »
With rested ears now, I think that Pan's suggestion for the 0:07 to 0:11 part is closer to what's actually going on than my attempt from after midnight. For the 1:10 to 1:12 part, I'm sticking with my first guess, as I still seem to hear a x3x1xx double stop followed by a xxx111 frail, so the mIII of the Fm(7) chord is above the V note (or the tonic above the 3rd, if you're thinking Ab6).

BTW, one thing that amazes me is how differently I seem to hear things depending on which time of the day I'm listening. I should probably start to do my transcriptions before noon instead of late at night.

Offline Johnm

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« Reply #116 on: June 20, 2014, 11:58:35 AM »
Hi all,
I thought I would get a head start on what Eddie Bowles was doing at the various places during the course of his "Blues", just because I have a little free time now.
   * At the :07-:011 point, his lower position is as Prof. Scratchy had it, X-X-2-3-1-3, a C7 with its third in the bass.  The higher chord that he rocks to is a little surprising, because it is a bit reachy.  It is similarly voiced on the top four strings and differs from the earlier chord only on the first string:  X-X-2-3-1-5.  It's a C13, or C6/7, with the sixth/thirteenth on top, and it is darn pretty.  It does require some activity with the little finger of the left hand, though.  Just voicing the top four strings definitely makes it easier to do than it would otherwise be.
   * At the :23-:29 point, he does resolve from a rootless D9, X-X-4-2-1-0, to a G13, voiced 3-X-3-0-0-0, both as described by mr mando and Pan.  Prof's D9 was the right chord, just voiced a little differently.
   * At the 1:10--1:12 point, he is playing an Fm7, or Ab6, as Pan had it, voicing just the top four strings, X-X-1-1-1-1.  My own choice for naming the chord would probably be Fm7, mostly because a rocking motion to the IV chord in the second bar of a 12-bar blues is a fairly common "uptown" move, and rocking to a IVm7 chord sort of goes that uptown move one better.

I feel like you all were hearing this song really well.  One thing neat about Eddie Bowles' approach is his use of so many rootless chord voicings, or ones in which the root is buried in the middle or top of the voicing, rather than sounding in the bass.  He reminds me of the contention of the great Jazz pianist Bill Evans, who especially favored rootless voicings because he felt like our ears fill in the root when it is not played.  Eddie Bowles' playing bears out Bill Evans' idea in this regard, at least for me.

I will post another song to work on later today, with first answers not to be posted until Monday, in response to mr mando's request.  I've been trying to go back to songs we discussed earlier in this thread and transcribe the lyrics, and have done that with several of the songs, if anyone is interested in working the songs out.
All best,
Johnm
« Last Edit: June 20, 2014, 04:25:56 PM by Johnm »

Offline Johnm

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Miller's Breakdown
« Reply #117 on: June 20, 2014, 04:24:44 PM »
Hi all,
The next song is "Alabama Prison Blues" by Jesse Wadley, on a field recording that was done at the Bellwood Prison Camp in Atlanta, where he was also recorded singing in the vocal quartet that I posted yesterday to the "Country Blues clips on YouTube" thread.  The identification questions for the song are:
   * What position/tuning is the song played out of?
   * Where is the movement in the treble at :01--:02 and :03--:04 fretted?
   * Where is the bass run at :08--:10 fretted?
   * Where is the harmonized passage at :31--:32 fretted?
   * Where are the lines from 2:15--2:17 fretted?
Here is Jesse Wadley's performance of "Alabama Prison Blues":



--come and see me, when I had so long
You wouldn't come to see me, babe, when I had so long
Lord, you won't come to see me, please count the days I'm gone

Judge read my verdict, rocked in his easy chair
Judge read my verdict, rocked in his easy chair
Says, "I'm sorry, Jesse Wadley, you can't have no mercy here."

Mr. Whitman come got me, Pat Campbell carried me down for trial
Mr. Whitman come got me, Pat Campbell carried me down for trial
Holly hung her head and cried like a baby child

Rocks is my pillow, cold ground is my bed
Rocks is my pillow, cold ground is my bed
Says, I want little Holly to hold my worried head

Holly Mae got a bed, and it shine like the morning star
Holly Mae got a bed, and it shine like the morning star
And when I get in, it rides like a trolley car

It's a low-down fireman, dirty engineer
It's a low-down fireman, dirty engineer
That will take my woman and leave me campin' here

I prays to God that train would have a wreck
I prayed to God that train would have a wreck
Don't hurt my baby, but break that engineer's neck

Please don't post any answers to the questions above until Monday, June 23, and just use your ears and guitar to arrive at your answers.  I hope you have fun with it.  I really love this song, both the singing and the playing.  And if there are any questions or comments about any of the previous tunes, please don't hesitate to post them.

All best,
Johnm
« Last Edit: December 21, 2017, 09:45:48 AM by Johnm »

Offline Johnm

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« Reply #118 on: June 23, 2014, 09:02:21 AM »
Hi all,
Are there any takers for Jesse Wadley's "Alabama Prison Blues"?  Answer as few or as many of the questions as you wish.  It's a beauty.
All best,
Johnm

Offline Old Man Ned

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« Reply #119 on: June 23, 2014, 09:37:01 AM »
OK, so let me kick start this and see where it goes:
Tuning, I'm getting G tuning (E and A strings tuned to D and G respectively.  Playing out of a the G at the 3rd fret.  Though not sure, as first I thought it was in G played out of dropped D but the bass run (G A A# B G E D G) is easier to play out of G tuning.

The movement in the treble at :01--:02 and :03--:04 is fretted at the 3rd fret, moving from b on 3rd string, d on 2nd to b on 3rd, e on 2nd back to d Then e on 2nd,  g on first to a on first and back.  Sort of moving between G and C chords.

The harmonized passage at :31--:32 is something like the open 3rd and 2nd string then fret the 3rd str 3rd fret, 2nd str 2nd fret, move up a fret, open strings then move from first fret, to 2nd to 3rd (fingering as before) and back to open 2nd and 3 strings.  If that makes sense!

Ran out of time for the last bit (Where are the lines from 2:15--2:17 fretted) but it's a sort of wee boogie pattern g, b, d, e, f.

Apologies if all this sounds gobbledegook but I thought I knew what I was talking about when I started :-)
Hopefully, others will be a bit more enlightening.
All the best

 

 


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