collapse

* Member Info

 
 
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

* Like Us on Facebook

Now I am going to make a statement here. I don't know whether it fits into the category of other people's statements or not. But whether it fits into their category or whether it doesn't, it obviously fits into some category. So in that respect, it is no different from their statements. However, let me try making my statement... - Chuang Tzu: Basic Writings, Translated by Burton Watson (New York: Columbia University Press, 1964)

Author Topic: "Winin' Boy'  (Read 6931 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Richard

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • Posts: 2406
  • Drove this for 25 years!
    • weekendblues
"Winin' Boy'
« on: June 17, 2004, 04:12:00 AM »
Not wishing to correct you Slack, but I will!  :o

JRMs tune is actually called Winin' Boy and not Whinin' Boy as you have it - well, I'll let you off as you were not brought up on JRM etc etc... anyway my real  point is, what actually is a "Winin' Boy"???

It's question that jazz know-it-alls' often ask each when they have nothing more esoteric to talk about and have yet to come up with an answer - so "winin' boy" any ideas?
(That's enough of that. Ed)

Offline Slack

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 8788
Re: "Winin' Boy'
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2004, 07:50:50 AM »
Hey Richard,  :) - yeah I know - I meant to go back to correct it after removing the song from the queue.  I suppose it is a phonetic typo - as it sounds like he says the word "Whine" to me. In any case, I don't know what a Winin' Boy or (Whinin' boy) is --- tough to tell from the context!

cheers,
slack

Offline uncle bud

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 8314
  • Rank amateur
Re: "Winin' Boy'
« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2004, 08:21:21 AM »
Is it possible it derives from "winding", stemwinder et al?


Offline Richard

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • Posts: 2406
  • Drove this for 25 years!
    • weekendblues
Re: "Winin' Boy'
« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2004, 08:34:35 AM »
U-B, stemwinder, what's that then...that's new to me!
(That's enough of that. Ed)

Offline MotMot

  • Member
  • Posts: 95
  • Some said it's beans, some said it's greens
Re: "Winin' Boy'
« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2004, 08:41:46 AM »
Never thought too much about it, but I always thought "winin'" was the typo, because "wining boy" doesn't make any sense at all (at least to me).
But a "whining boy" does make some sense to me.? It makes me think of somebody who's always whining, which my dictionary says can mean "uttering a high-pitched plaintive or distressed cry," or "uttering a complaint with or as if with a whine." Though I was a well-behaved child (wink), I remember other children being told to "quit your whining!"
I imagine a whining boy as somebody who's always bitchin' and moanin' and bellyaching ... about his sister, the little sow who wants to be a bad girl (but unlike him, doesn't know how), the (horny?) spider on the wall, whatever.? If you were around, he'd complain about you, too.
And a whining boy who won't deny the name (label), but picks it up and shakes (rattles?) it like a (noisy? and confining?) ball and chain, is proud of it.
So, to put it in high-falutin', multisyllabic words, to me the song conjures up somebody who's aggressively & swaggeringly obnoxious.
To bring it back full circle, maybe he got that way because he had too much wine.
And that's probably too much analysis for a great and earthy old song ...
Cheers.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2005, 11:28:27 PM by Johnm »
... but it's a slow consumption, killing me by degrees

Offline uncle bud

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 8314
  • Rank amateur
Re: "Winin' Boy'
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2004, 09:02:28 AM »
U-B, stemwinder, what's that then...that's new to me!

See here at Early Blues and scroll down to stem winder. Blind Boy Fuller did a tune called "I'm a Good Stem Winder", meaning talented in the, er, sexual arts. The origin is apparently from braking systems on trains.

Was also thinking of Bo Carter etc. references to winding, e.g. in Twist It Baby.

Offline frankie

  • Member
  • Posts: 2441
    • DoneGone.net
Re: "Winin' Boy'
« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2004, 09:31:08 AM »
"Wind the clock" is also an older euphemism for sex.

Sliver

  • Guest
Re: "Winin' Boy'
« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2004, 12:17:06 PM »
hey the juke sounds great.  and i love the intro bit - positively john peel!

Offline Richard

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • Posts: 2406
  • Drove this for 25 years!
    • weekendblues
Re: "Winin' Boy'
« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2004, 01:36:49 PM »
I have a feeling there could be even more to come  :-X

Regards, winin' boy .. yes, it's obviously sexual but like many a blues thing it's the blues it's all in the detail.
(That's enough of that. Ed)

Offline FrontPage

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • Posts: 550
  • Not dead yet!
Re: "Winin' Boy'
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2004, 02:01:49 PM »
Although I have never heard the 'original' version, I have been told that this song was first recorded as "Winding Boy Blues" - a specific reference to JRM's generous male appendage, of which he was apparently rightfully quite proud. Might this open the possible metaphorical allusion to a fishing reel, that being JRM's usual method for securing a preferred catch?

I have also been told the the lyrics of his 'original' version would be rated "explicit sexual content" if released by a record company today - i.e., it's a real paint peeler. Lastly, I have been told that this 'original' version can be had from the Libarary of Congress by special request. When JRM speaks/sings the word [Winin'], the innocent ear hears [Whinin'] as a contraction of [Whining - i.e. to make a sorrowful sound], but the more jaded among us will definitely hear the contraction of [Winding], complete with all its intentional sexual innuendo. Lastly, I am told that JRM softened this song up (title and lyrics) so as to be able to "get the message out" without running into trouble with the censors.

Some interesting reading and listening can be found here:
http://www.doctorjazz.freeserve.co.uk/page10.html

This site will stream Real Audio for two versions (1938 and 1939) of "Winin' Boy Blues" by JRM himself.
http://www.redhotjazz.com/jellyroll.html

Enjoy.
Cheers,
FrontPage

Offline MotMot

  • Member
  • Posts: 95
  • Some said it's beans, some said it's greens
Re: "Winin' Boy'
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2004, 09:54:43 PM »
<...snip...>a specific reference to JRM's generous male appendage, of which he was apparently rightfully quite proud.<...snip...>
the innocent ear hears [Whinin'] as a contraction of [Whining - i.e. to make a sorrowful sound], but the more jaded among us will definitely hear the contraction of [Winding], complete with all its intentional sexual innuendo. <...snip...>

Oh, well, so much for the elaborate explanation of a whining boy, and I'm not sure where I fall on the innocent-to-jaded spectrum, but some people might consider singing about one's generous male appendage as aggressively and swaggeringly obnoxious ...


U-B, stemwinder, what's that then...that's new to me!

See here at Early Blues and scroll down to stem winder. Blind Boy Fuller did a tune called "I'm a Good Stem Winder", meaning talented in the, er, sexual arts. The origin is apparently from braking systems on trains.<...snip...>

I've also heard "stem winder" applied to rousing political speeches, as in "he gave a real stem winder at the convention."

Whatever Jelly Roll meant when he sang it (and whatever the others who have sung it after him had in mind), it's a great and earthy piece of music.

Thanks, FrontPage, for the links to the Jelly Roll sites, which were enjoyable and informative.

Cheers,
Mot
... but it's a slow consumption, killing me by degrees

Offline Richard

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • Posts: 2406
  • Drove this for 25 years!
    • weekendblues
Re: "Winin' Boy'
« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2004, 01:48:07 AM »
Yes, I certainly have read that he was in 'big' demand by the ladies, but the fishing reel comparison is one even I would not have thought of.. whatever sort of sites do you visit to learn about that ;D

(That's enough of that. Ed)

Offline OMpicker

  • Member
  • Posts: 23
  • Up the river, Daddy's gonna do a stretch...
Re: "Winin' Boy'
« Reply #12 on: July 02, 2004, 05:57:24 PM »
Just some additional information.? Here's a link to a site that has a transcription of the Library of Congress interview of JRM by Alan Lomax.? JRM talks about Winin' Boy as a number he specifically did to counteract the apparently typical characterization of pianists as less than masculine.? (To add to the confusion, the notes refer to both Winin' Boy and Winding Boy.)

http://www.doctorjazz.freeserve.co.uk/locspeech4.html

By the way, here's the home page for this pretty amazing site:

http://www.doctorjazz.freeserve.co.uk/index.html

It's got midi files, photographs and lots of information on ragtime and early jazz piano music and its past and present interpreters.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2005, 11:30:47 PM by Johnm »
Dennis

Offline Richard

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • Posts: 2406
  • Drove this for 25 years!
    • weekendblues
Re: "Winin' Boy'
« Reply #13 on: July 03, 2004, 11:49:46 AM »
Good sites.
(That's enough of that. Ed)

Offline Slack

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 8788
Re: "Winin' Boy'
« Reply #14 on: July 04, 2004, 08:36:17 AM »
Thanks for the links Dennis!  Very interesting sites adn a very interesting intgerview w/ JRM - and long, I'm still reading it!

cheers,

Tags:
 


anything