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Country Blues => Weenie Campbell Main Forum => Topic started by: StoogeKebab on April 03, 2014, 05:00:38 PM

Title: Son House Definitive Documentary
Post by: StoogeKebab on April 03, 2014, 05:00:38 PM
Officially starting work on a Son House documentary. So far interviews lined up with Dick Waterman, Jas Obrecht, Michael F. Havelin and Stefan Grossman. THIS IS NOT A COMPLETE LIST simply what I could arrange after a week and have waited said week to confirm that the film is in fact, taking direction.

Currently also in talks with Mr. Waterman to establish more contacts and Mr. Havelin for some photos and discussing his work with Ron Mix in 1974 in an effort to incorporate that documentary. Also talking to Murray Lerner in an attempt to get footage from Newport 1964-67.

Suggestions for any people to interview, photos for use in the crowd funding pitch, if you are the rights holders to any film, have personal experiences with Mr. House, etc. Please reply below  :)
Title: Re: Son House Definitive Documentary
Post by: Slack on April 03, 2014, 05:21:24 PM
You might want to contact Bob West of Arcola Records, who interviewed and recorded Son House.
Title: Re: Son House Definitive Documentary
Post by: mr mando on April 04, 2014, 01:27:16 AM
Woody Mann accompanied Son House quite a bit in the 70s (see http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/woodymann2/from/scottp (http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/woodymann2/from/scottp)). He might be interesting to talk to about his experiences with House.
Title: Re: Son House Definitive Documentary
Post by: StoogeKebab on April 04, 2014, 04:10:11 AM
You might want to contact Bob West of Arcola Records, who interviewed and recorded Son House.

Thank you. Arcola Records has been contacted at an email address that began with 'west' and with the ATTN: Bob West as the subject line, so hopefully that will get through.
Title: Re: Son House Definitive Documentary
Post by: StoogeKebab on April 04, 2014, 04:13:04 AM
Woody Mann accompanied Son House quite a bit in the 70s (see http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/woodymann2/from/scottp (http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/woodymann2/from/scottp)). He might be interesting to talk to about his experiences with House.

Mr. Mann has been contacted through a contact form on his site, not sure how reliable that is, but here's hoping it will get through.
Title: Re: Son House Definitive Documentary
Post by: twangmeister on April 04, 2014, 09:23:19 AM
John Mooney knew Son quite well and learnt slide guitar from him.

http://www.intrepidartists.com/artists/john-mooney/ (http://www.intrepidartists.com/artists/john-mooney/)
Title: Re: Son House Definitive Documentary
Post by: StoogeKebab on April 05, 2014, 02:37:48 AM
You might want to contact Bob West of Arcola Records, who interviewed and recorded Son House.
Bob West has responded with an affirmative! Thank you for the information Slack  :)
Title: Re: Son House Definitive Documentary
Post by: Greg H on April 05, 2014, 08:22:02 AM
I'm not sure if it was just a one-off but I know Creighton Lindsay played with Son House at least once.  He can be contacted through his website (creightonlindsay.com (http://creightonlindsay.com)) but I must warn you he doesn't check that email very often so response will probably be slow.
Title: Re: Son House Definitive Documentary
Post by: jostber on April 09, 2014, 04:25:17 AM
Stefan Grossman played with Son House as well:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLkss2xEgyA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLkss2xEgyA)

Buddy Guy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DX1jKXHqe-c (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DX1jKXHqe-c)


Title: Re: Son House Definitive Documentary
Post by: StoogeKebab on April 13, 2014, 04:33:11 AM
UPDATE:
Woody Mann has not responded as of yet.
Bob West is proving very helpful in setting up some more contacts and arranging some interviews as gaining access to the original 1968 film, as opposed to Video Tape copies so the film can be scanned at 2K or 4K depending on 16/35mm stock.
I have contacted attempted to contact John Mooney with no luck, can't find reliable contact information.
Creighton Lindsay has been contacted with no response as of yet, but as mentioned, that may take a while.
Stefan Grossman has already been confirmed  :) And Buddy Guy has been contacted through some form of manager or agency with no response after a week, he was part of the initial list due to his participation in the 1974 documentary which never saw the light of day in its complete form.
Looking to contact Mr. Ron Mix of Reel Image Inc. in order to incorporate the 1974 documentary within it. If anyone has any information, please let me know as descriptions of the film from Mr. Havelin have proven that it will be very beneficial, so far I have a phone number but no way of telephoning the USA  ::)
Title: Re: Son House Definitive Documentary
Post by: P D Grant on April 13, 2014, 09:17:27 AM
I think Ernie Hawkins played with Son House too. Might be worth an email.
Title: Re: Son House Definitive Documentary
Post by: JohnLeePimp on April 22, 2014, 09:19:42 AM
There's a man called Michael Havelin who seemingly worked on the unfinished House documentary from 1974, could be worth getting in touch, swapping notes/unfinished film footage

http://blindman.fr.yuku.com/topic/43656 (http://blindman.fr.yuku.com/topic/43656)
Title: Re: Son House Definitive Documentary
Post by: jostber on April 22, 2014, 10:46:13 AM
Dave Kelly played with Son House:

http://books.google.no/books?id=NYE4pkvjBlwC&pg=PP109&lpg=PP109&dq=blues+dave+kelly+son+house&source=bl&ots=UKnldF74F5&sig=Bgxv9QfeEID2vB7laxQUHhCmjS8&hl=no&sa=X&ei=w6lWU9qRL-SAyQOThID4Dg&ved=0CE4Q6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=blues%20dave%20kelly%20son%20house&f=false (http://books.google.no/books?id=NYE4pkvjBlwC&pg=PP109&lpg=PP109&dq=blues+dave+kelly+son+house&source=bl&ots=UKnldF74F5&sig=Bgxv9QfeEID2vB7laxQUHhCmjS8&hl=no&sa=X&ei=w6lWU9qRL-SAyQOThID4Dg&ved=0CE4Q6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=blues%20dave%20kelly%20son%20house&f=false)

Title: Re: Son House Definitive Documentary
Post by: Norfolk Slim on April 22, 2014, 12:11:14 PM
Paul Geremia shared a bill with him and tells the story of fetching some booze for him on one of his live CDs.  Might have more?
Title: Re: Son House Definitive Documentary
Post by: uncle bud on April 22, 2014, 03:28:20 PM
I believe Paul Rishell has at least one story of being a young "handler" watching House to make sure he didn't get loaded before performing.
Title: Re: Son House Definitive Documentary
Post by: StoogeKebab on May 05, 2014, 05:00:02 AM
Thank you all for your replies, your information has been taken into consideration and as many people recommended as possible have been contacted, with a few more writing to me requesting to be in the film. The business plan and budget have been prepared and sent to Mr. Waterman for review and I am currently awaiting his response, and, as they say, we'll go from there.
Title: Re: Son House Definitive Documentary
Post by: wreid75 on May 06, 2014, 12:09:05 PM
If you need any volunteers give a shout!  I work very cheaply............................oh wait I'm free.
Title: Re: Son House Definitive Documentary
Post by: StoogeKebab on May 16, 2014, 11:30:45 PM
Woody Mann has finally received communication and has returned a positive response  :)
Title: Re: Son House Definitive Documentary
Post by: StoogeKebab on July 14, 2014, 03:34:00 AM
Okay, now organised a rather long list of people to interview, missing a few common suggestions, wondering if anyone could help me out in terms of putting me in contact with a relevant party on behalf of those listed below:

Buddy Guy
Bonnie Raitt
B. B. King
Ron Mix
Anna Lomax Wood

Any information regarding managers, related people by place of business or the individuals would be greatly appreciated. Right now just awaiting Mr. Waterman's final go ahead and some photos for the website, more information to be released shortly following that.
Title: Re: Son House Definitive Documentary
Post by: wreid75 on July 21, 2014, 09:52:45 PM
BB King uses William Morris Booking Agency and management is B.B. KING ROAD SHOWS, LLC Management Agency

Buddy Guy gooking is through www.montereyinternational.net (http://www.montereyinternational.net) and management is GBG Enterprises/ GBG Artist Management

Bonnie Rait http://shorefire.com/clients/braitt/, (http://shorefire.com/clients/braitt/,) and booking is through Richard De La Font Agency.

All three were found in less than five minuets from each persons websites





Title: Re: Son House Definitive Documentary
Post by: StoogeKebab on July 22, 2014, 12:30:15 AM
BB King uses William Morris Booking Agency and management is B.B. KING ROAD SHOWS, LLC Management Agency

Buddy Guy gooking is through www.montereyinternational.net (http://www.montereyinternational.net) and management is GBG Enterprises/ GBG Artist Management

Bonnie Rait http://shorefire.com/clients/braitt/, (http://shorefire.com/clients/braitt/,) and booking is through Richard De La Font Agency.

All three were found in less than five minuets from each persons websites

Thank you for your help, but my issue is that I am unable to find contact for B. B. King's management, simply the company name, same with Buddy Guy, however your information of Bonnie Raitt's booking coming from Richard De La Font Agency is very useful, thank you, as the shorefire.com link simply redirects to the home page.
Title: Re: Son House Definitive Documentary
Post by: bnemerov on July 22, 2014, 04:59:46 AM
Hi Stooge,
Pollstar publishes directories with contact info.
I don't know where you are, but go to this WorldCat link and type in your zip code to find the libraries nearest you to contact.
Reference librarians can be very helpful.
best,
Bruce





https://www.worldcat.org/title/pollstar-artist-management-rosters/oclc/35905429&referer=brief_results (https://www.worldcat.org/title/pollstar-artist-management-rosters/oclc/35905429&referer=brief_results)
Title: Re: Son House Definitive Documentary
Post by: StoogeKebab on July 22, 2014, 06:36:59 AM
Hi Stooge,
Pollstar publishes directories with contact info.
I don't know where you are, but go to this WorldCat link and type in your zip code to find the libraries nearest you to contact.
Reference librarians can be very helpful.
best,
Bruce





https://www.worldcat.org/title/pollstar-artist-management-rosters/oclc/35905429&referer=brief_results (https://www.worldcat.org/title/pollstar-artist-management-rosters/oclc/35905429&referer=brief_results)

Thanks Bruce, I have definitely faced some communication problems due to my location (Australia), but its clear benefit is that I am entitled to a whole bunch of arts grants, and have the ability to apply for huge grants through one of our government programs. Unfortunately this means I am unable to attend libraries in the US in person, but will definitely try giving them a call or contacting via web (the cost of international calling here is at meal-skipping rates) as I do have library cards to a wide variety of libraries across Australia, the US and the UK, perhaps one will help this process along.
Title: Re: Son House Definitive Documentary
Post by: Kokomo O on July 23, 2014, 05:43:14 PM
Hey, Stooge, I'll bet librarians will Skype with you just like anyone else will. There shouldn't be any need to pay for a transoceanic phone call in this day and age.
Title: Re: Son House Definitive Documentary
Post by: StoogeKebab on July 24, 2014, 12:08:26 AM
Hey, Stooge, I'll bet librarians will Skype with you just like anyone else will. There shouldn't be any need to pay for a transoceanic phone call in this day and age.

Hi Kokomo, thanks for the idea, having had to use the phone to call managers and agencies I didn't even think of Skype for the different type of environment of libraries. I'll look into it  :)
Title: Re: Son House Definitive Documentary
Post by: bnemerov on July 24, 2014, 06:15:13 AM
Stooge,
Most (all) libraries routinely handle reference requests via e-mail.
I gather (am I wrong?) that all you want is a scan of the relevant page(s) from Pollstar Management Directory.
For a small fee they will scan and attach a pdf to a return e-mail.
No need for phone calls or skype.
best,
bruce
Title: Re: Son House Definitive Documentary
Post by: Johnm on September 23, 2018, 06:56:28 AM
Hi all,
I was wondering if this movie ever ended up being released.  Any information would be appreciated.
All best,
Johnm
Title: Re: Son House Definitive Documentary
Post by: StoogeKebab on September 23, 2018, 11:56:42 PM
Hi John,

Glad to hear that someone remembers it! There were a few reasons nothing never eventuated.

I had a lot of planning, contacts, footage, sound, the works, but ran into a massive roadblock when Sony were charging $150,000 for the use of recordings. Weirdly, they believed that Sony, and not Dick Waterman, had publishing rights. They then tried to prevent me from seeking out alternatives (i.e. Bob West's live recordings, he was of great help and I really miss him and his guidance) to the Sony Recordings and essentially I hit a wall from which the project never recovered.

Additionally, I ran out of methods for sourcing the 1974 documentary. I initially had contact with an associate of Ron Mix (no easy feat after a name change), but then lost it along with all leads. I was able to get a draft of their film, but in poor quality, VHS from a black and white broadcast tape that was directly filmed off some sort of monitor (which I think I have seen on YouTube). This really wasn't usable, especially considering the fact that Ron Mix's son had said on a forum that the original 16mm film was in existence. When trying to contact Mix himself, I got no response from a phone message left with him, or one with the current 'Reel Image inc.' in Rochester, or emails/forum PMs to his son.

Sadly, after that, as they say, life got in the way.

In all, I sunk a lot of hours into the project, and was really glad to meet everyone that I met and learn everything that I could, but I just couldn't get it together in the end.

If given the chance, I would love to complete it. If I had the Mix documentary (or their original negatives, which have also shown signs of existing), I would gladly scan (or pay to have it scanned rather), restore, and edit it along with everything else I have into a coherent narrative. I have amassed hours of concert and interview recordings (some released, some unreleased) and have sources and/or leads on a whole heap of footage (including a bunch of unused Newport footage, though that was directly from the late Murray Lerner, so I don't know what I'd do about that now). Ideally I'd hoped to conduct new interviews with quite a few people, and I certainly couldn't fund that, but really, the Ron Mix film is the missing link and now is the best time I'll ever have to dedicate the hours to an unpaid creative project.
Title: Re: Son House Definitive Documentary
Post by: Johnm on September 24, 2018, 06:38:09 AM
Thanks for the update, StoogeKebab.  I'm sorry to hear that you became stymied in your efforts to obtain the necessary footage and rights.  Once you get into the realm of trying to lease the use of works of art owned by mega-entertainment entities like Sony, you really need deep pockets.  It's a shame, too, because it's not as though they're going to do anything with what they own, apart from charging exorbitant prices for its use.
Title: Re: Son House Definitive Documentary
Post by: StoogeKebab on September 24, 2018, 06:46:54 AM
Once you get into the realm of trying to lease the use of works of art owned by mega-entertainment entities like Sony, you really need deep pockets.

It was a tough thing to face, but of course I was also a legally powerless fifteen year old when this was all happening, and generally felt lucky that anyone was listening/treating it seriously. I tried to seek an 'alternative' channel of communication through someone my father put me in touch with that had licensed from Sony for an Australian Defence Force project and was sadly met with "$10,000 per 30 seconds is pretty standard"

As I said, if I had Ron Mix's film, I would pay for its transfer in a heartbeat and devote even minute of my upcoming semester break to editing as good a documentary as I can, even without Sony's approval (which I wouldn't need, per se, to make some kind of film, I just wouldn't be able to have any music in it  :P ). It's just a shame that that particular roadblock really does seem like a dead end at this point.
Title: Re: Son House Definitive Documentary
Post by: MissouriTiger on September 24, 2018, 02:31:55 PM
This is such a cool idea!!! I used to fantasize about making an individual documentary about every blues man in history. Crazy, yes?! Who would watch them all? Only us members of Weenie Campbell and that's about it - lol!

Godspeed to you in this project!
Title: Re: Son House Definitive Documentary
Post by: harry on September 24, 2018, 06:01:58 PM
Hi Stooge,

Are you aware of this?

https://eu.democratandchronicle.com/story/news/2015/08/26/son-house-wednesday-wrap-up/32423835/ (https://eu.democratandchronicle.com/story/news/2015/08/26/son-house-wednesday-wrap-up/32423835/)

Title: Re: Son House Definitive Documentary
Post by: StoogeKebab on September 25, 2018, 05:08:04 AM
Hi Harry,

While I hadn't seen that specific report, I was made aware of that screening by a post somewhere on here, albeit sadly long after it had happened. After Bob West passed away, I was no longer corresponding regularly with anyone about the project and that's when it started to dwindle.

In any event, the report that I had read at that time made no mention to new quotes by Ron Mix, or that someone had actually edited that footage, so I had inferred (which I'm now pleasantly surprised to see was an incorrect inference) that it was the same cut that I have a poor quality VHS rip of. It's also a shame I wasn't able to reach Ron Mix at the time (September and October 2015, my only project related goal while on holidays) as that was right after this occurred and I'm sure he would've been able to point me in the right direction of it all.

If what is suggested by the article - that the Mix film was scanned and re-edited - is in fact the case, the job that I could do now has been done for me, and that's really good to hear, it's just unfortunate that the film appears to be unavailable elsewhere.

This talk over the past few days has really got me motivated to dig into it some more (perfect timing, I have a week off  :D) and I'm going to try and get in touch with the Rochester filmmaker that is named as doing the new edit. Hopefully that produces something fruitful!

Thank you John, Tiger, and Harry for commenting and bringing it all back to my attention. As they say, here goes nothing, we'll see what can be come up with.
Title: Re: Son House Definitive Documentary
Post by: StoogeKebab on September 25, 2018, 05:21:19 AM
Another thing for those interested, here's the YouTube clip of the poor quality copy (not my upload, but identical to what I have)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkIh3XBGQYU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkIh3XBGQYU)

And here's a discussion recorded at the Son House events:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LUKgxliRkc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LUKgxliRkc)
It hits hard upon reflection seeing this as I was 9,500 miles closer than I usually am while all this was going on and I was taking a break from it!

The most pleasing update is that there was a George Eastman Grant to transfer the film. Should anything else ever happen that wants to use this film, it's had a high quality transfer done of it. That's fantastic to hear.
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/25/arts/music/son-house-inspires-a-rochester-blues-festival.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/25/arts/music/son-house-inspires-a-rochester-blues-festival.html)

Looking back, the only thing I could've added to this was digital savvy and looking at a wide scope with new interviews as opposed to a specific project. Scrolling back through this thread shows how lofty my goals were! I assume that Dick Waterman was aware of it, though looking back I don't think I spoke to him around this time.

In any case, it's brought me great comfort to see that the film has been shown some reverence and was transferred and edited. I hope that by nagging a few people this week I might work out how one could go about seeing more of it. Any news I receive will be immediately shared with my dear Weenie family.
Title: Re: Son House Definitive Documentary
Post by: Rivers on September 25, 2018, 06:37:24 PM
Thanks SK, and good luck, you deserve it
Title: Re: Son House Definitive Documentary
Post by: harry on October 04, 2018, 03:16:45 PM
I am the maker of this documentary...the documentary is available to see through the Monroe County Library, Rochester, N.Y.  It also was accepted in a few video festivals. I am curious if anyone knows how the documentary was uploaded to Youtube since I have never done that and am the director and producer of it. There are very few copies of it and by a very few I mean under 10, probably closer to 5. I own all the copyrights to the documentary. I don't mind it being presented to the public in this manner but I'm extremely curious who uploaded it to YouTube. I can be reached at mjbrady67@gmail.com. Thanks much, Mark Brady


This was posted as a comment on YouTube, Preachin' the Blues aka Son House On Film, 1977 (part 2 of 2) 
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