Topic: Total Newbie Questions: Banjos, Instruction Books, Gus Cannon

[Clueless]

Hi everyone,
Total newbie here. I absolutely love pre war blues, and have lately been thinking about learning the banjo a la Gus Cannon, and jazz artists such as Johnny St. Cyr. My questions are: What kind of banjo would be most like Gus Cannon's? Could that banjo also be used for a hot jazz style from the 20's? Are there any books that cover Jazz, and pre war style blues banjo? I'm not totally new to music, I've been studying classical piano for almost 11 years, so theory and basic chords are not a completely foreign concept. Are there any websites that cover this style, and have tutorials? And lastly, how much would I have to pay to acquire the essentials: Banjo, Books, Strings, Picks, etc. I'm still in high school, so my funds are limited a fair amount, and I doubt I could spend more than 200.
Thanks for the help,
Alex

[Lastfirstface]

Johnny St Cyr played a six-string guitar-banjo, while a lot of other early jazz banjoists played with a pick on four string tenor or plectrum banjos. Gus Cannon on the other hand used a five-string banjo with different finger picking and frailing styles. I suppose there is some overlap between Gus' playing on ragtime tunes and some early plectrum playing that was built around the same low-bass tuning, but they're kind of separate approaches in my experience.

 As a five-string player I've occasionally detuned and tucked the drone string on the side of my bridge so I could strum on closed chord positions up the neck along with jazz changes (without the fifth string ringing out), but it would be nicer to have a dedicated instrument for four-string playing if I was doing more of it. Dom Flemons, formerly of the Carolina Chocolate Drops, primarily uses a plectrum banjo rather than a five-string for pre-war blues and other related material, and I think its definitely possible to use that approach to emulate Gus' sound without losing too much of his feel.

I'm not sure about written learning materials for Gus Cannon's music, as most of it I've learned by ear over years of listening, but there's plenty of published material on hot jazz plectrum or tenor playing. 

[uncle bud]

I can't think of any learning materials for Gus Cannon off the top of my head either. I've just figured some of his stuff out by ear, which comes pretty easily if you have played guitar. You would get into C tuning (gCGBD), learn your I, IV, V chords, and then start figuring out the riffs. I was able to pick up rudimentary banjo skills fairly quickly having played guitar - not sure of the same quick skills transfer from piano, though I think piano prepares one to learn any other instrument well. The nice thing about the banjo is it is a pretty forgiving instrument (even if listeners are not).

While I think you could play some of the material on a plectrum, the 5th string seems pretty key to nailing his sound on some songs, IMO.

Can't help you with early jazz banjo but you may want to check out the banjohangout at http://www.banjohangout.org/forum/. They have a specific forum for 4-string banjo.

As for cost, there are cheap banjos out there, some terrible, some quite playable. There are numerous threads on the banjohangout with that kind of advice. Banjo strings are cheap and you don't need picks to play Gus. For instructional material, you might want to start with youtube - there's a lot on there and it's free, while you're figuring out what instructional material might be useful for your goals.

[Lastfirstface]

While I think you could play some of the material on a plectrum, the 5th string seems pretty key to nailing his sound on some songs, IMO.

I know what you mean, there are some things Gus does that are dependent on having the fifth available.

[waxwing]

I remember seeing a rather extensive discussion, by someone named Tony (maybe Tony Gilroy? Extended senior moment), about Gus's ability to play in a variety of styles, sometimes frailing, sometimes fingerpicking, etc., on one forum or another, I searched here and at Blindman's, but no luck. It might have been mudcat or maybe the banjo hangout, neither of which I frequent regularly but discussion of Gus would certainly draw my attention. Is this something you've seen at BH, Andrew? Tony seemed to be a researcher, or promoter of historic black banjo styles. Seem to remember some links to videos, but not instructional, more like an outdoor festival performance. Ring any bells for anyone?

[Edit to add] Here's a blurb that mentions the versatility of Gus Cannon. http://bluegrassbanjo.org/1800s.html

Hmm, also mentions Charley Patton's mother was a banjo player. I thought I read somewhere it was his first wife. Maybe both?

-----

Found it! It was banjo hangout. It was Tony Thomas. Here's the link; http://www.banjohangout.org/archive/146118

The discussion starts out led by our own banjochris posting with his real name, and then Thomas joins with some extended posts as writerrad. Good stuff.

Wax

[banjochris]

There is indeed some good information on that thread, especially biological and anecdotal, but I would say caveat emptor to some of Tony Thomas' statements about Cannon's playing style on his 78 recordings and some of the things he says about Cannon and Uncle Dave Macon and the way they fit into the banjo tradition of the time. Both of them, in my opinion, are more individual artists than Thomas suggests. Also, I think it's pretty clear on Cannon's prewar recordings that he's playing in the same three-finger style for the vast majority of them.

Chris

[uncle bud]

I agree, the 78s all sound like three-finger stuff to me. The downpicking/frailing stuff comes on the Stax record from the 60s and one or two things from the 50s, and much of the time on those it sounds like he's pretty much just punching out chords with occasional flourishes. There was a 20-second video on YouTube of him playing I can't locate at the moment - I vaguely recall that being some kind of downpicking but may be confusing it in my memory with something else.

[StoogeKebab]

There was a 20-second video on YouTube of him playing I can't locate at the moment - I vaguely recall that being some kind of downpicking but may be confusing it in my memory with something else.

Might this be the video?

[uncle bud]

Yes, that's the one - thanks StoogeKebab.