Topic: Church Bells

[frankie]

It's not the one you think - by Kid Prince Moore.  I haven't listened to the original since before my daughter was born, and I think I've subsequently changed just about everything about the accompaniment.  Recorded it after a crummy day at work.

[uncle bud]

Recorded it after a crummy day at work.

Shit, Frank, that's just plain wonderful. You need some more crummy days at work. Time to make that damn CD like John said.

I notice the kids aren't squealin' as much as a couple years back in Samson and Delilah. 

What a great song. I hadn't heard it before.

[frankie]

I notice the kids aren't squealin' as much as a couple years back in Samson and Delilah.?

Yeah - my son was otherwise occupied, or else you might have been surprised how loud they can get for such small gromits.  My daughter is still young enough to think it's cool when I play guitar.

What a great song. I hadn't heard it before.

I guess you could say he's pretty obscure - penned a few other tunes like 'Bug Juice Blues'.  It's all on vinyl, and on my 'to do' list for transfer to CD.  I dunno if 'Bug Juice Blues' is a particulary great tune - all I remember about it is the line "I love my bug juice", which makes me want to play it...

[waxwing]

Man, Ramblin' Frank, that is fine! You're gonna have that one smokin' for Coatesville. I love those runs in the middle of a vocal phrase, and that double bend on "Kno-ow". Great arrangement. Works great with your voice. Soulful.
This Back Porch is rockin'. I gotta figure out my recording situation so's I can contribute. Unfortunately this Mac Cube only has a video card and no sound input jacks. I'm gonna have to get some kinda interface, like an M-box or some such, and a small mixer, maybe, I don't know, but my current financial status is holdin' me back. I might be able to record some stuff at a friend's house.
You guys are all puttin' up some good stuff.
All for now.
John C.

[uncle bud]

I guess you could say he's pretty obscure - penned a few other tunes like 'Bug Juice Blues'.? It's all on vinyl, and on my 'to do' list for transfer to CD.? I dunno if 'Bug Juice Blues' is a particulary great tune - all I remember about it is the line "I love my bug juice", which makes me want to play it...

Yes, I have Bug Juice Blues on the Columbia Booze and the Blues compilation (a good one of theirs). It's a cool tune, but this is on a whole nuther level.

[frankie]

You're gonna have that one smokin' for Coatesville.

Thanks John - it used to be a staple in the tunes I'd play during gigs.  Haven't played it in ages.  I'm glad you like the way the vocal works with the guitar - that's one of the most important things to me.  I don't have such a good voice, but I like to try and include it in the whole musical picture, not just slap it on top of some arbitrary arrangement.  Sometimes it works out and sometimes not.  Been working on some Furry Lewis stuff - it's completely amazing to me that he can sing at all in addition to what he's playing.  Jeez!

[Slack]

Wow.  Frank you put the rest of us slobs to shame!  I am unfamiliar with this tune also and agree with the sentiments expressed, very soulful - you need to do a CD.  My spouse walked by paused and listened for awhile and was very surprised when I told her this was a weenie - she thought it was one of the "old dudes"... ha. 

Very, very nice...

Agree with you on Furry Lewis stuff, I can get the guitar parts, but singing on top - ayee - if anyone can do it you can.

cheers,

[frankie]

My spouse walked by paused and listened for awhile and was very surprised when I told her this was a weenie - she thought it was one of the "old dudes"... ha. 

That's cool - thanks!  I guess the compression on the mp3 doesn't hurt in that regard! <g>

Agree with you on Furry Lewis stuff, I can get the guitar parts, but singing on top - ayee - if anyone can do it you can.

Thanks for the vote of confidence - it's defeated me every time so far.  His playing is so loose...

[frankie]

Yes, I have Bug Juice Blues on the Columbia Booze and the Blues compilation (a good one of theirs). It's a cool tune, but this is on a whole nuther level.

Yeah - I remember feeling that this tune was more 'inspired' sounding than just about anything else he recorded, but it's been almost seven (!) years since I listened to his original recordings.

[Richard]

Well, yes. Not a lot to add really, except what about a CD.

"Old dudes..." he he he, I like that!

[frankie]

I appreciate the compliment, I dunno about a CD guys - seems like a lot of money & time to spend for what would basically be a vanity project.  I can be just as vain with mp3s and never have to pay for anything to be pressed!  Real musicians can tour & whatnot in support of a recording.  Best I can do is maybe get two or three people out to the local coffeehouse for my bi-annual gig...

[uncle bud]

I appreciate the compliment, I dunno about a CD guys - seems like a lot of money & time to spend for what would basically be a vanity project.? I can be just as vain with mp3s and never have to pay for anything to be pressed!? Real musicians can tour & whatnot in support of a recording.? Best I can do is maybe get two or three people out to the local coffeehouse for my bi-annual gig...

You gotta start somewhere.?

Anyway, I've got your mp3s in my iTunes library and, goddamn, they're just as good if not better than a lot of the stuff in there. If I'm playing alphabetically by artist, I get Church Bells, Joliet Bound, Sawmill Moan, Snigglin' Blues all in a row and a fine mini-Frank playlist they make indeed. Really great song selection, unusual -- with the possible exception of Joliet Bound which isn't played by that many people either -- and a musical execution that's the real thing, even if these are after-work, minidisc one-offs. Keep posting those mp3s and I'll soon have my own Frankie CD.

Ari's a real musician and ain't touring and we're still waiting for the 2nd CD...

How old are the kids now? 3, 4? They can get jobs, dammit...

Actually, maybe you're right. Why bother pressing CDs. But getting into a studio might be nice.

[Bill Roggensack]

But getting into a studio might be nice.

Frankie - great job on 'Church Bells!'

If you're running on a decent Widows/Intel machine - fast CPU, lots of RAM and a big fast hard drive, you should look into buying Soundblasater Audigy 2 NX or the Extigy system (which is simlar what my son is using; however, these are aboth USB so might be getter to go with something inboard and less convenient). Here's what you get:

Connections and Controls
  USB connector
  Line In
  Mic In
  Optical S/PDIF In
  Line Out (Front/Rear/Center/Sub)
  Line/Headphone Out (Side)
  Optical and Coaxial S/PDIF Out
Controls:
  Master Volume Control
  Mic Volume Control
Indicators:
  Power LED   Dolby LED
  Mute LED    CMSS LED
  IR LED

It took a bit of fooling arougn to get everything working properly, but with a little perserverance, I'm living proof that an amateur can do it. Then you'll need to add some reasonsably priced mising and editing software, and you'll be ready to go. They used to bundle some passable sutff, but a quick check on the current web site suggests they have stopped doing this. There is lots of stuff out there that will do an adequate job until you get into serious effects and large numbers of tracks.

With a little practice and a good set of ears 9which you have), you can probalby get pretty close to what you'd get in a small digital studio. At you own speed and for a well controlled cost. I would spend my money there instead of on studio time.

[Johnm]

Hi Frank,
This is my favorite of all the ones you've posted so far--just a beautiful job, especially vocally, this is right in your kitchen.  You are really moving some air.  I prefer your vocal to Kid Prince Moore's.  Guitar sounds great also.
All best,
John

[frankie]

Thanks for all the kind words, you guys.

FP - I appreciate all the recording hardware advice, but at this point, it just doesn't make any sense to upgrade what I have.  I might entertain the idea of getting a better microphone, but recording for me right now is just a way of doing a reality check and gauging my progress on one tune or another.  If it were any more work than it is right now (which is really no work at all), I don't think I'd bother.

Once, just before my daughter was born, I tried to record a theoretical "CD" worth of songs myself using some borrowed microphones, mic preamp and DAT recorder.  It was an awful experience - real recording gear can be fussy & sensitive...  I have enough to think about just trying to play a halfway decent piece of music!  I think I can be happy just hacking away at it for fun.

[onewent]

...Frank, I'm only now finding this part of the forum and wanted to give you a thumbs up on Church Bells ... I think I met you once or twice at Ari's place; I was taking lessons for a few years...your version sounds as if you learned the skeleton arrangement from Ari, which I also learned and play, but you've changed it around a little into a unique arrangement ... I think Ari's
playing Church Bells on his new CD, so it will be interesting to have another version out there...

Question: What's the Coatesville waxwing referenced earlier in this thread? ...Coatesville, PA?

Regards ... Tom W.

[frankie]

...Frank, I'm only now finding this part of the forum and wanted to give you a thumbs up on Church Bells ... I think I met you once or twice at Ari's place; I was taking lessons for a few years...your version sounds as if you learned the skeleton arrangement from Ari, which I also learned and play, but you've changed it around a little into a unique arrangement ... I think Ari's playing Church Bells on his new CD, so it will be interesting to have another version out there...

Hi Tom - I think I remember you...? did you have a J-45 at one point, maybe one with an adjustable wooden saddle?? That musta been almost 10 years ago!

I'm glad you liked the tune.? Ari definitely turned me on to the song - the first time I ever heard it, he played it for me over the phone.? I don't think I ever got him to show me exactly how he plays it, though.? Just after I heard Ari play it, I was in Portland, Maine and found a copy of Kid Prince Moore and Shorty Bob Parker on Wolf - an LP, no less.? I worked out the tune from there, but I suppose that I've always had Ari's in the back of my mind.? There's at least one very "Ari" move that I, ahem, borrowed...? but it comes from If You See My Savior.? In the last verse, instead of playing a lick that moves from C or C7 to F, I play it as Gm7, C9, F.? Ari does the same move in one of the last verses If You See My Savior.? I'm not convinced it sounds quite right in Church Bells, but that hasn't stopped me from playing it yet, 'cause I like the way it sounds.? Even if I do tend to sing flat over those changes.

Question: What's the Coatesville waxwing referenced earlier in this thread? ...Coatesville, PA?

Yup, that's Coatesville, PA.? The Coatesville Cultural Society has a small old-time music festival there every year in May and they asked me to play a short set.? It was fun, but I'm not really much of a performer - I'd rather be out in the parking lot, jamming!? Come to think of it, I can't remember at all if I played this tune or not...? duh!

[onewent]

...I always brought my black early 30's L-00 to Ari's and I'm 6'5 and came in from Lancaster...Ari couldn't believe anyone would drive that far for guitar lessons...heck, I'd still do it if he were teaching...the lick from If You See My Savior, yeah, I recognized that one at the end, I play both songs, ... post a message or drop me an email if you hear of any country blues being played around, I'd be interested ... maybe one of these day, if I get the tech part together, I'll try to post my version of Church Bells... regards Tom W.  onewentatptddotnet (use the @ and . to replace the words)

[Blues4u2go]

Frank,
I've lurked about the Main Weenie Forum for quite some time,? and I have only just now discovered the Back Porch. . . and . . . Church Bells is the very first song that I have listened to here.? Very, very nicely done.? What a beautiful song.? ?I'm very impressed.? Would you care to share any insites as to the how to's, chord changes, etc?? I have to try to figure this one out now.? ?I had also never even heard of Kid Prince Moore before.? ?If you don't learn something new every day you're not breathing.? After hearing it I did a quick look on Amazon and see that Document released a complete recordings of cd in 1994.? I may have to check that out.

I look forward to listening to everything else on the Back Porch, but I imagine they will be hard pressed to match your take on this song.? If I can get it together this looks to be the perfect place for me to post an initial recording.? I am very much a newcomer to recording.? I recently purchased an Iriver and purchased a couple of small mics a week or so back.? My very first attempt at recording, the instrumental part of Paul Rishell's 'Louise' was fairly disastrous.? Many, many, many, takes trying to get through the song without a noticeable mistake.? Man is it tough.? And that was without any vocals!? Singing and playing has a lot of the same qualities for me as going down a dark black alley at 3am.? ?

Anyway, I found your home page as well, doing a Google for 'Church Bells Kid Prince Moore' and I look forward to listening to your other recordings.

Enjoy,
Mike Moran

[Prof Scratchy]

Thanks, Mike, for reviving this thread. It prompted me to have another listen and, yes, what a great song and a fine  performance. Which makes me think: Frankie, you haven't posted in a while. What  have you got up your sleeve?
Prof S

[frankie]

Hi Mike,

Church Bells is played out of C in std tuning and I'm probably close to concert pitch.  As a player, I'm basically a meat & potatoes kind of guy - the stuff that gets me going is the interplay between the voice and accompaniment, not necessarily fancy guitar stuff in isolation.  The chord shapes are all, for the most part, your typical first position chords with the following exceptions:

G7
e-1-
B-3-
G-0-
D-3-
A-2-
E-3-

The bottom G note is played with the thumb.  It's a chord shape used frequently by Rev. Gary Davis.  It's one of the things I eventually ended up using in the song - even though I haven't heard the original in a while, I'm nearly certain that this chord isn't used by Kid Prince Moore.

Underneath the "Lord I kno-ow my time ain't long", there's a D note (2nd string, 3rd fret) that figures prominently, first bent and released underneath "kn-ow", then as part of G chord at the third fret underneath the word "time":

G
e-x-
B-3-
G-4-
D-5-
A-x-
E-3-

Then as part of an F6 underneath the word "ain't":

F6
e-x-
B-3-
G-2-
D-3-
A-x-
E-1-

These features are part of KPM's performance (iirc), as are the bass runs that I typically use on the IV (F) chord.  Usually, they start on the 1st fret of the sixth string, then fifth string open, fifth string-3rd fret, fourth string open, fourth string-3rd fret, third string open, third string-1st fret, third string-2nd fret, second string-1st fret:

F-A-C-D-F-G-Aflat-A-C

All executed with the thumb except the final C on the second string.  You could probably think of it as an F6 arpeggio masquerading as a bass run.  This is just a typical run - I'll do others depending on my mood and how well I remember what it is I think I'm doing.  My timing is less fluid than KPM's, who is all kind of loose, going from memory.  Some people see this in different ways - I suppose some might be inclined to say that KPM couldn't count or something - I see my need for structure as a side effect of years of exposure to product disguised as music and which demands structural predicability.  In other words, something to be overcome...

There's no one way to play this and this isn't really an arrangement - it's how the song turned out on this particular day when my daughter was sitting across from me after work.  I'm glad you like the song.  I've played it for a long time and it's worn in like a good pair of boots, unlike all the other things I've posted.  As such, it probably doesn't belong here as it kinda violates the spirit of the Back Porch endeavor, imo.

Anyway, I hope this helps - there's a bunch of good stuff done by others tucked away in the Back Porch, so going through the contributions will be fun, imho.

Re:  singing and playing - I've never found that there was a learning curve with it.  On the other hand, it's always been something like this: can't do it, can't do it, can't do it, can't do it, can't do it, can't do it, whoa! I can do it!  Keep at it, but get a firm idea in your mind of what you want to sound like.  In coaching my wife and daughter through learning the fiddle, it has been reiterated to me what a powerful tool just singing is as a way of understanding musical ideas - sing your guitar parts (or other instrument)!  Then sing the vocal melody - once you can do that independently, putting them together will probably be much easier.

Prof. Scratchy - nothing in the works, but haven't had any real contributions to make, either...  been playing a bunch at home to take the edge off work, but that's about it.

[Blues4u2go]

Frank,
Thanks for taking the time to break this down.  I am going to take a run at it now.   That G7 chord is a little different, but it will probably just take a little getting used to.   I do use my left hand thumb quite a bit.   

My search on Google for Church Bells Kid Prince Moore also pointed me to Ari Eisinger's forum.  It looks like this song will be on his new cd.   My teahcer had reccommended Ari's playing, and I first heard him here on Weenie Radio.  I sent him a note to see if I could order both cd's, but I have not heard anything yet.   Looking forward to it.

Thanks again,
Mike

[frankie]

Ari's fantastic, of course.  I haven't heard him play Church Bells in a while,  but I'm sure what made it onto the CD is perfect.  I could be happy as a guitar player subsisting on a steady diet of Ari's clams...

[lebordo]

Great job, Frank.

I've got Kid Price Moore's version of Chruch Bells [and the flip side of the same 78 (ARC 6-06-62), Sign of Judgement] on small MP3s as a result of a project I did a year or two ago for a friend in California.  So if anyone wants to her the Kid's version from 1936, and it's allowable to post it to the forum, I'll be happy to post it (or email it, if it's not supposed to be posted to the forum).

Although he recorded 11 sides for ARC and 6 sides for Decca -- all of which are available on LP or CD -- these are the only two I've ever heard.  Based on the titles of his other songs, these two are the only ones with a "gospel" tone to them, so they may not be representative.  But to me,  both seem a bit mysterious.  Seems to be a lot of tension -- kind of like he's caught with one foot in heaven and the other in hell.  His guitar reminds me a little bit of John Hurt's, yet with an eerie tone to it.  Of the two, Sign of Judgement is the stranger, at least to me.  A few of the base notes seem to purposely border on discord.

[frankie]

Like Church Bells, I haven't heard Sign of Judgement in ages, but I can still remember the chorus with that C sharp showing up in the bass.    It's almost as if he's going for a jazzy kind of sound - like a diminished passing chord between the change from the I (C) to the V7 (G7).  I'm not sure that's really what he intends, but it's fun to leave that note where he puts it, dissonance be damned.  Beautiful song.

[frankie]

These features are part of KPM's performance (iirc), as are the bass runs that I typically use on the IV (F) chord. 

I just got a chance to hear the original once again, thanks to the juke...  actually, the only similarities between KPM's recording and mine are the words and the riff under "I know my time ain't long".  Everything else, I guess, I must have stolen from Ari!  Oh, well...  that's what you get from relying on memory...  In retrospect, I guess I have heard Ari play this pretty often, much more often than I've sat down and listened to Kid Prince Moore.  Ari has the advantage of being alive.

It'll be interesting to see what the recording of it on his CD sounds like.

[Buzz]

"Old Guys", indeed!  I will be fifty--eight  next week, so I think my age and gray hair qualify me as an old guy ....though I ain't as old as the real old guys we love to hear. Great compliment from Stephanie, Slack.

I agree, Frank. You sound, simply, "great".

Andrew: I am going to combine all those (Frankie and Gibson, Frankie and Martin) tunes in a row, and burn them to a cd--great idea!

Love this site, Slack!

Miller