Topic: Whilst on the subject of Downloads

[kenneth]

This is an amasing site with an enormous amount of free downloads. Both studio recordings and rare live concerts http://delta-slider.blogspot.com.au/search/label/Fahey

[uncle bud]

This topic is locked. Under discussion with moderators.

Edit: Unlocked. Moving it to Other Musical Interests.

[Parlor Picker]

How legal is this? 

[Norfolk Slim]

He appears to have a section on that issue, addressing copyright etc.

The answer (in summary) appears to be "technically much of this is copyright material, but probably no one will care too much.  If they do care, then let me know and I'll take it down".

Personally, I'm not too keen on that ethos.

[Delta_Slider]

Hello all, nice of Kenneth to let everyone know about my blog.  I really do appreciate it when people pass along their passion for music.  I have built this blog based on my passion for music.  Thanks Kenneth!

As for the question of legal downloads.  I encourage any and all to read the disclaimer yourself.  It?s unfortunate that Norfolk Slim chose to interpret my words into his own, and then put quotes around it as though they are my words.  They  are  not. 

He says ?much? of this is copyright material.  Wrong.  ?Much? of the free downloads are taped, live shows that many, many artists these days are perfectly fine with.  Many are sourced form other sites that specifically say that they have received the permission of the artist.

If you like Fahey or Kottke I highly suggest you download one of Ragtime Ralph?s fine releases, there?s nine to choose from.  He gives all his music away for free.  Delta Slider is sort of the unofficial headquarters for Ralph?s music, he maintains no site himself.

?Much? of my site is also dedicated to reviews of music I enjoy.  Some of these may have a free download of a song or two that the label has decided to give away and very graciously allowed me to post.  Most are simply embedded songs that you can listen to, but you have to click over to their site and buy if you want a download.  See how that works?

I recently was included in one guitarist?s ?Thank You? section of his latest release, specifically for supporting and promoting his work on Delta-Slider.  Yet another is releasing a new CD soon with the closing track of Delta Slider Blues.  Many fine guitarists have written articles for my blog.  I?m very proud of this.  I know musicians work hard for their money, I?m not here to short change anyone.

I hope people will stop by and see for themselves.  Check out some music, leave a comment, enjoy.

Thanks,
Scott

[Norfolk Slim]

Scott,

I specifically drew people's attention to the fact that you had a whole section dealing with the legality / copyright issue.  My "quote" was flagged as a summary, and I would imagine that it was clear to everyone that it was *my* summary.  Certainly that was the intention and if there is any confusion caused by the way I did it, then please accept my apologies.

That said, I am still not entirely clear that what I said was incorrect.

You say that "much" of the free downloads are taped live shows that many artists these days are fine with.

The issue, surely, is that (1) Many of those who are fine with it, take that stance on the basis that it is for personal use of people who paid to be at the gig, rather than to be put on the internet for all; (2) Many many artists are not fine with it.  They are quite understandably protective of their work and intellectual property, given how hard it can be to make a living as a musician outside of the big labels; and (3) either way, it should surely be the artist's choice, rather than sticking it up there and waiting to see if they find out about it and/or object.

My view, is that unless a specific artist is known to be "fine with it" or has specifically waived rights, then it ought not to go up.

That is the ethos I am uncomfortable with and I don't think it is an answer to simply say that lots of artists are fine with it.  Regrettably, it is a mindset which is increasingly becoming the accepted norm and I think thats a bad thing.

Of course, there is no issue with stuff that people have waived rights over, or embedded stuff with paid downloads elsewhere etc and I can see that your site could be a valuable resource for that sort of thing, for those interested in the genres / artists you are concentrating on. 

It may well be that you can confirm the vast majority of what you have up fits into those categories, in which case please do clarify, so that people who are concerned about such things can enjoy and download, guilt-free.

[Rivers]

If you like Fahey or Kottke I highly suggest you download one of Ragtime Ralph?s fine releases, there?s nine to choose from.  He gives all his music away for free.

Ay, there's the rub. It is not "his music", and it is not "his" to give away, unless he has an explicit release from the artist and copyright holder that would hold up in court of law, in this day and age. Worse still, folks who innocently went ahead and downloaded recordings later deemed illegal could also be in trouble if a case were to go to court.

So somewhat vague blanket assertions that "permission was given" are, IMHO, not sufficient to enable wc.com to endorse an external site making said material available.

This is not a Grateful Dead concert we're talking about here. The Dead already had several albums out and were making a ton of dough touring, not to mention making board recordings of every live show, which were always going to sound better than an audience recording, when they said "OK, tape away!" Even so, they could not have imagined the media shift wrought by the connectivity of the modern internet. Sharing files on usenet groups is one thing, www 2013 is a different animal. <- That statement will look extremely quaint by, say, 2015

I have a ton of tapes, minidisc and latterly digital recordings that a lot of folks would like to hear. Because I pressed the record button does not make them mine to distribute. A lot of people don't seem to get that.

Have you heard "Tokyo Bootlegger Man" by David Lindley? It may make you think about how the musicians you love might view this. Money is not the whole of the issue either, quality control is another big, in some cases bigger, factor. I could name a few musicians in our particular genre who definitely would not support having their live shows taped by amateurs and published without permission. Hell, if it were me I wouldn't either, but that's not likely to be a problem anytime soon.

I don't know if you're a musician or a fan. That could be at the root of the difference in perception.

Just my $0.02

[RC Johnston]

Hiowdy!  Ragtime Ralph/Blind Brand X here...I give my music away for free...no one needs my permission to record my rare live shows or download my releases...I am just happy to have the music out there and to be supported by such important sites as Delta Sl?der and the Fahey Guitar Players Group.  Cheers!  RC Johnston.

[Delta_Slider]

Ah, Ralph to the rescue!  See above post folks.

Ay, there's the rub. It is not "his music", and it is not "his" to give away, unless he has an explicit release from the artist and copyright holder

Just for clarity: Ralph IS the musician, it IS his music, HE wrote it, played it, paid to go in the studio and printed up 100 copies and mailed them out.  FREE.  People not lucky enough to get one can download one. 

Seriously, you are missing out if you don't give his music a listen. 

[Norfolk Slim]

As has been said above, that is fine- of course it is.  No one is going to criticse for providing links to authorised/ paid downloads, or providing stuff which the owner has said can be distributed.

What about the rest of the stuff on the site please?

[Rivers]

Thanks guys, I'm sure that makes all of us who have concerns a little more relaxed. Please feel free to expand on the permissions granted to the other material if you can.

[Delta_Slider]

Chuck Johnson is a great guitarist that I have been posting a lot of lately and he ok's all his live recordings. I'm afraid you'll have to dig around and see what there is.  Most posts have something to say about the music, decide for yourself. There's just too many posts to detail all the artists one by one. 

Other than that one example, all I can say is I have obtained the vast majority of my bootlegs from DimeaDozen.org that has been operating for years with no legal issues that I know of.  Here is a link to all their rules they enforce in order to:
stave off legal trouble
respect artists? rights
http://wiki.dimeadozen.org/index.php/DimeTOS:Allowed_Torrents

[Bill Roggensack]

I think Tim O'Brien used a parody of "Jimmy Brown the Newsboy" quite effectively to summarize how the Internet and peer-to-peer file sharing have affected his livelihood.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVjNcjaw_IE&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DZVjNcjaw_IE



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