Topic: Miller's Breakdown

[eric]

Trying to work these out is really helpful for me and are kind of bonus as I work through the ear training DVD.  Worth doing, even when I don't get them right, or at all. Thanks for posting them, John.

[Johnm]

I'm glad you're enjoying them, Eric, and you got the Peetie Wheatstraw puzzler right, so you're moving in a good direction.
All best,
Johnm

[EddieD]

You know there are so many great lessons available for a lot of the music I love I have recently been neglecting picking out songs by ear. These challenges will be fun and will keep my ears sharp. I will try to participate when ever I can in these. I didn't have much time trying "sleepless nights" so it will be great to actually sit down and really work at it.

[Lyndvs]

That "rocking"chord really had me stumped!.John`s analysis of these songs really is an education-first class.

[Johnm]

Hi all,
I've got a new puzzler for you.  The song is Walter Roland and Sonny Scott's rendition of "Frisco Blues, take one".  It's a ripping duet and Walter Roland, in the lead guitar role, does some really innovative and great-sounding moves.  Here is the duo's rendition:



SOLO

I'm worried now and I won't be worried long
I'm worried now and I won't be worried long
The woman I love, Lord, she caught the Frisco and gone

SOLO

Have you ever heard that lovin' Frisco blow?
You ever heard that lovin' Frisco blow?
You ever heard that lovin' Frisco blow?
Blows just like she ain't gonna blow no more

(SPOKEN: Play the Frisco, man, play it!  See that Frisco train!)
SOLO X 3

Mmmmm, Lord have mercy on me
Mmmmm, Lord have mercy on me
I'm just worried and blue as I can be

(SPOKEN: Play the Frisco, mister!)
SOLO X 3

Here are the questions on "Frisco Blues":
   * What position/tuning are the two guitarists using to play the song?
   * Where is Walter Roland fretting what he plays over the I chord in the first four bars of his solo pass which he starts with pick-up notes at the end of the form around 2:33?
   * Describe how he fingered what you hear him playing in the passage referred to in the last question.

As always, please use only your ears and your instruments to arrive at your answers, and please don't post any answers until Thursday morning, April 16, so that plenty of people have a chance to listen to the cut and come up with their own answers.  Thanks for participating and I hope you enjoy the song.

All best,
Johnm

[EddieD]

It's the wee hours of the morning of the 16th here on the east coast of Canada so here is what I have so far:

 Walter Roland and Sonny Scott's rendition of "Frisco Blues, take one"

Seems to be in D in first position. Possible Drop D tuning on at least one guitar.

The song starts off by hitting the D7 a few times

Kind of rocking around on the D7 hitting notes on the 3rd fret on the second and first strings or
maybe the e string open sometimes.

There is a riff that goes from the D7 to the F in a D shape on the 5th and 6th frets.

Im having trouble nailing down exactly how this is played.
I have something that sounds close but I can tell it's not quite correct.

The chord progression seems to be D7 G7 D7, A/A7/A, D7 ...in a nutshell anyway haha

As far as hearing two guitars I find it hard to tell with this recording. Sounds like one may be in drop D playing basic
chord forms but with lots of low bass strings

I know you said pitch isnt really nessasary but Capo on the second fret to play along with the song this way for a pitch of E.


Here is a tab of sort of what I mean for the D7

Code: [Select]

e--2-2-2-2--2-2-3-2-
b--1-1-3-1--1-1-1-1-
g--2-2-2-2--2-2-2-2-
d--0---0-0--0---0-0-
a--0--------0-------
D--0--------0-------
It works but doesnt seem right to me.

Anyway, Im interested to see if I am close or not Now time for some sleep.

[Lyndvs]

Walter Roland:d position
Sonny Scott:g position-I find it hard to hear not too sure of this.
I think at 2.33 Walter is fretting at the 5th fret 1st string,sixth fret(with slight bend) second string and alternating between 7th fret  second string and 7th fret third string.I think he does this by fretting the fifth fret 1st string with his index and bending the second string 6th fret with his middle finger then just sliding his middle finger over to bar the 7th frets of the second and third string-I think he starts the move with a short slide into the 6th fret bend on the second string.
At one point i thought he may be playing 11th fret third string and 10th fret  2nd string and alternating with the second and third string at the seventh fret but gave up on this as I think he is capoed and this may be too awkward.Also I think I hear that slight bend in there.
Reminds me a little of bullfrog blues.

[Johnm]

Hi all,
I will be off-line until Monday evening, so that leaves plenty of times for folks to listen and respond to the Walter Roland/Sonny Scott puzzler.  I look forward to re-visiting the thread when I return.
All best,
Johnm

[Gumbo]

Wow this is a tricky one to pick the bones out of!

From the opening chords I think the rhythm (sonny) is played in C position with a capo on 4 if we're in concert standard tuning (we might be after all).

Walter could very well be playing out of D position, as Lyndvs and EddieD have it.

Johnm, much as you recommend that we don't focus on the sounding key (E in this case) and go for the sound of the playing position,  it seems hard to do that until I get to recognise a particular pattern (I'm beginning to spot the long A intervals for example). so if this sounds in E then I'm looking for E position, D position two frets up, C position 4 frets up etc and then either going YES! when I find it or getting stuck as it doesn't sound right, and wondering about the many possible alt tunings. I don't play other tunings much if ever so i'm limiting myself there.

the 2.33 seems to be a jump up from D position to the F at 5th fret but it's murky as pond weed at a skinny dipping party, so the fingering will have to be left foe someone else to explain!

[Johnm]

Hi all,
Well, it seems like as many as are going to respond on the "Frisco Blues" puzzler have responded, so I'll post the answers. 
   * Both Walter Roland and Sonny Scott played the song out of D position in standard tuning.  Sonny Scott is pretty hard to hear, but for the most part, he is playing boom-chang back-up, alternating between the open fifth string and the second fret of the sixth string for his I chord (D), and occasionally doing a little boogie run under the IV chord, G, moving from third fret of the sixth string to the second fret of the fifth string, the open fourth string, second fret of the fourth string and the open third string.  One of the really impressive things about Sonny Scott's unassuming back-up is that Walter Roland changes the phrasing of the form over the course of the rendition, and when a lead player phrases irregularly, it is the way the seconding player hears and responds to the irregularities that makes the difference in whether the duo moves smoothly through the song or has various speed bumps, stumbles or train wrecks.  Sonny Scott is flawless in his back-up, and as a result, Walter Roland sounds all that much more like an ace.
   * In the passage beginning around 2:33, for the first four bars of that pass through the form, Walter Roland moves from a D shape at the fifth fret, 5-6-5, going from the third string to the first string, down to a D at the base of the neck, 2-3-2, back up to the fifth fret, back down to the second, back up to the fifth fret, accenting it twice, then down to the second fret, but landing on a D7, 2-1-2, which he rocks rapidly into a D, 2-3-2 and back to the D7, concluding the four bars there.  EddieD and Gumbo both caught this move, in the main, well done!

The cool thing about this move is that when you take any three-note voicing of a major triad and move it up three frets, keeping the shape intact and a low root in the bass, you end up with a minor seventh chord off of that same root.  In this instance, Walter Roland is voicing his low root on the open fourth string.  His D at the base of the neck is voiced Root-5-3, moving from the third string to the first.  In moving that D shape up to the fifth fret, he winds up at frets 5-6-5, with a Dm7 chord which is voiced root on the open fourth string and then bVII-bIII-5 on the top three strings.  Rocking between a major chord and its minor seventh chord (or vice versa, as in this case) is a striking sound, and its relatively easy to achieve in such an instance because you're moving the left hand shape intact.  For an example of another playing using this device, but in another key, listen to Lil' Son Jackson's "No Money, No Love', for which he utilizes the very same concept, but working out of A position in standard tuning.
   * Walter Roland's fingering for the passage in question would require him to finger the D shape with his second or middle finger fretting the third string, his little or fourth finger fretting the second string, and his third or ring finger fretting the first string.  That arrangement leaves his index or first finger free so that when he goes to the D7 shape near the end of the passage it allows him to move really quickly from the D7 to the D and back, just by fretting the second string with his little finger and then lifting it, going back to the index finger fretting the second string.  If you listen to the rendition from the beginning to the end, Walter Roland uses this fingering and division of labor in the left hand for all of his playing over the D chord, and it allows him to move rapidly from an open second string to the first fret and the third fret, seamlessly, as well as occasionally picking up the third fret of the first string with his little finger.  It is really a slick solution to playing in the D position and figuring out a quick way to go back and forth from D to D7.

Thanks to EddieD, Lyndvs and Gumbo for participating and I'll look for another puzzler to post soon.

All best,
Johnm 

[waxwing]

Another good one, as usual, Johnm.

Just wanted to point out that Scrapper Blackwell uses this same fingering for his I chord in Back Door Blues to even more varied effect, using the index to finger the bIII on the 1st str. 1st fret as well, playing runs on the 1st and 2nd strings and going up to the 5th fret position for some riffs around that position to boot. This song was also discussed in the circle of 5ths thread because he (sometimes) substitutes a nifty walk down in 5ths for his V chord. Interestingly both Roland and Blackwell played with Josh White (answer to question in the Euroweenie quiz, BTW) but I'm not familiar enough with White's work to know if he used similar figures.

Wax

[EddieD]

I'm looking forward to the next one Johnm!

[eric]

My excuse is I was traveling, but the truth is I had a tough time with this one.  I look forward to the next one.

[Prof Scratchy]

Same excuse as Eric. Now back home - so no excuses for the next one.

[Johnm]

Hi all,
I have a new puzzler for you.  The first song is Johnnie Head's "Fare Thee Blues, Part 1".  Here is his performance of parts 1 and 2 of the song:



KAZOO INTRO

When you hear me sing this song, babe, I ain't gonna be here long
Fare thee, high brown, fare thee
A-when you hear me sing this song, babe, I ain't gonna be here long
Fare thee, honey, fare thee

I'm gonna see you in the Spring, honey, when the birds begin to sing
Fare thee, high brown, fare thee
I'm gonna see you in the Fall, when you won't have no man at all
Fare thee, honey, fare thee

KAZOO SOLO

I left her standing on the hill, crying, "Daddy, I love you still."
Fare thee, high brown, fare thee
I left her standing on the hill, crying, "Daddy, I love you still."
Fare thee, honey, fare thee

I'm gonna see you, babe, way late, when your love have turned to hate
Fare thee, high brown, fare thee
I'm gonna see you, babe, way late, when your love have turned to hate
Fare thee, honey, fare thee

KAZOO SOLO

The questions on "Fare Thee Blues, Part 1" are as follows:
   * What position/tuning did Johnnie Head use to play the song?
   * What is the progression of the song, expressed in the key of the position that Johnnie Head used to play it?  Write it out in four-bar phrases if you wish.

The second song is Tallahassee Tight's "Quincey Wimmens".  The only thing I know about Tallahassee Tight in a biographical sense is that his name was evidently Louis Washington.  Here is the song:



Now those Quincey women produces, they sure do treat you fine
I got me a good Quincey woman, she sure treats me fine
You oughta go to Quincey, big boy, and see this gal of mine

She got coal stray hair, pray it's all in mine
She got coal black hair, it's pretty as long as mine
Way you treat me, baby, I stay worried all the time

Let me get up on some high mountain, and see her from miles away
Let me get up on some tall old high mountain, see my gal from miles away
Let me hang 'round there, baby, she sure will make you pale

She got ways like a terrapin and that she 'round this town
She got ways like a terrapin, just let any woman 'round your town
And if you two-time that gal, she's sure gonna turn your damper down

She got eyes like the devils, cast in the lion's den
She got eyes like the devils, cast in the lion's den
It's gonna be a long time, baby, 'fore you see my face again

Edited 4/27 to pick up correction from Prof Scratchy

Here are the questions on "Quincey Wimmens":
   * What position/tuning did Tallahassee Tight use to play "Quincey Wimmens"?
   * Where did he fret the fill he plays from :30--:33?

Please use only your ears and your guitars to arrive at your answers, and please don't post any answers before Friday morning, April 24, after 8 AM your own time.  Thanks for participating and I hope you enjoy the songs.

I wanted to mention, too, for the benefit of any recent arrivals to this thread that in the very first post of the thread is a link to a post that has a complete listing of all of the songs that have been discussed in the thread, with links to each of them.  If you enjoy figuring the songs out, and there are songs we've already done that you didn't participate on, the set-up will allow you to listen to the songs, see what questions were asked, and then come up with your own answers. 

All best,
Johnm