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Negroes all be in there gamblin', you know and they shoot a Negro down... And some of them short guys be standin' around the crap table, the crap table is high, he can't get up there... Pull that dead man up there and stand on him and still keep shootin' dice - Big Bill Broonzy, Blues In the Mississippi Night

Author Topic: Memphis Minnie & Joe McCoy's Playing: Queries and Tips  (Read 12918 times)

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Offline waxwing

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Re: Ice Man (Come On Up) by Memphis Minnie
« Reply #15 on: September 28, 2007, 08:22:03 PM »
Alex,

Try using 12/8 time, which, unfortunately will require a lot of re-editing.

Usually one just uses text below the tab to say something like "Damp Bass throughout".

All for now.
John  C.
"People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it."
George Bernard Shaw

“Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't after you.”
Joseph Heller, Catch-22

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Offline Pan

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Re: Ice Man (Come On Up) by Memphis Minnie
« Reply #16 on: September 29, 2007, 02:06:26 AM »
Hmmm. ::)

Wax is right,  12/8 would get you the triplet feel.  But, with such a lively tempo, I wouldn't reedit to 12/8, since this is not only a lot of work, but renders the notation also harder to read. Usually faster tempos are notated as straight 4/4, even if there's a triplet feel, just to simplify things.
I would consider the tempo limit to be somewhere where actual three note triplets start to be played repeatedly, in this case 12/8 might be considered.
Sometimes it's mentioned in the top of the first page, if the eighth notes are to be played with a triplet feel (two eighth notes = a quarter note + an eighth note triplet).

I wonder if the program has a playback option with triplet or "swing" feeling, so you could hear your transcription properly, but I'm sure Steve or others in the know can tell you much more about this.

Just my 2 cents  :)

Pan

chipmonk doug

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Re: Ice Man (Come On Up) by Memphis Minnie
« Reply #17 on: September 29, 2007, 04:47:38 AM »
Sounds good Ghost, I'll have to start working on the transcription.


Offline SteveMcBill

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Re: Ice Man (Come On Up) by Memphis Minnie
« Reply #18 on: September 29, 2007, 05:02:21 AM »
Yes, Waxy is definitely correct - changing to 12/8 would give the required feel (see also Mississippi Blues which is a 12/8). I might well give this a re-edit to 12/8 over the weekend - I'll see how much spare time I get.

However, Pan is absolutely spot-on with his suggestion that TablEdit may have a 'swing-feel' function. Go to 'Midi Options' and check out the 'Picking Syncopation' choice. This is often left at zero but can be altered to give a varying degree of 'swing' or 'shuffle' feel to the music playback. For this tune I would suggest setting this at a level of '2' and see what you think.

Hope that helps.

Ghost - I'm still looking at your requirement to brush and damp at the same time in TablEdit - looks like I might have to write to Matthieu (TablEdit author) about it). Just like yourself I like to get all my arrangements and compositions into TablEdit as a memory thing (the storage mechanism in my head is getting older and less reliable) and for long term archival purposes as well as for passing them around.

Steve   ;)

Offline waxwing

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Re: Ice Man (Come On Up) by Memphis Minnie
« Reply #19 on: September 29, 2007, 11:10:48 AM »
Sure, I know about the "swing feel" playback setting, but I thought Alex was looking for the actual representation in tab. I tab almost everything in 12/8 unless it's totally square, and, if I feel it's neccessary, indicate the tempo with text. But then I'm just writing the tab for my own sake, having the same faulty memory mechanism as the rest of you codgers, so I'm not worried too much about how others might interpret it.

To be honest, after spending many hours of hard work transcribing a particularly difficult song with variations in every verse, I'm a little adverse to just posting it on the net for one of those "ME Too!" Free Tab feeding frenzies you often see on the 'Shed or IGS. Never once have I seen someone acknowledge the time and effort that goes into working it all out. Everyone seems to assume that once it's been done that they are entitled to "The Tab", free, or whoever worked it out is an a-hole, as if the transcriber is just stealing from the artist anyway or something. Not to mention I'd really hate to show up at PT and hear 5 other players doing all the obscure songs I've worked out.-G- Like on the Lyrics board, I'm pefectly happy to talk chord progressions to get someone started on their own transcription, or help out with the difficult parts someone can't quite get (Heck, that's what my mentors do for me sometimes), but I just can't get myself to give away all that work for free to someone who won't even try. Sorry, just my selfish pet peeve. Maybe if I get to the point where I can hear it and just play it I'll feel different.

As to doubling Effects in TablEdit, Steve, that would be a great improvement. I can think of several different effects that would be good to be able to double up.

All for now.
John C.
"People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it."
George Bernard Shaw

“Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't after you.”
Joseph Heller, Catch-22

http://www.youtube.com/user/WaxwingJohn
CD on YT

Offline SteveMcBill

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Re: Ice Man (Come On Up) by Memphis Minnie
« Reply #20 on: September 29, 2007, 12:05:51 PM »
Hi John,

I definitely understand what you mean about the 'giving it away' with regard to tab and the long hours it has taken to work it out and put it correctly into a tab program - I have at times been a little peeved when I have found my own transcriptions poached (sometimes directly in TablEdit but more often put into one or more other tab products) and then had my name expunged and substituted by someone who didn't have to do the work to work it all out. But in the end I remember what pushed my own guitar playing development along so strongly and that was the start of Kicking Mule records which gave free tab and also allowed us to write in to get tabs that could not be sold with the vinyl. That generosity of all those high profile players coupled with the fact that I have noted that I am getting older, poorer memory, and the thrill of seeing someone else 'get' and perform one of my transcriptions well will continue to allow me to provide my tabs for free and to encourage young players to develop faster than I ever did; to progress further than I ever will; to push the boundaries of fingerpicking steel-strung guitar (I feel Kicking Mule did this a great deal); and to be as generous to newer generations of players as their personalities will allow. Different strokes for different folks and all that !!!!

I am interested in the 'other' linked/coupled effects you would like to see in TablEdit. Could you provide a list and I will approach Matthieu with all of them at one and the same time and see what we can persuade him to take on. Shouldn't be too difficult; he has been very amenable to the vast majority of the changes I (and others) have requested in the past.

Cheers for now mate, keep on pluckin'.

Steve   ;)

Offline Rivers

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Memphis Minnie - Pig Meat On The Line
« Reply #21 on: January 08, 2012, 11:43:25 AM »
This is a cool song I started playing along with it today, recording pitch is C

The closest I could get to the comping rhythm and ragtime proto-Chuck Berry double stop licks was capoing at the 5th fret and playing out of a first position G shape. Anyone playing it this way?

Offline frankie

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Re: Memphis Minnie - Pig Meat On The Line
« Reply #22 on: January 08, 2012, 04:00:09 PM »
I'd need to hear the whole song, but based on a 30 sec clip on amazon, it sounds like spanish capoed up high might be a possibility.

Offline frankie

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Re: Memphis Minnie - Pig Meat On The Line
« Reply #23 on: January 08, 2012, 05:09:49 PM »
a little birdy sent me the tune - A std, capo to pitch (3rd fret in my house).

Offline Rivers

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Re: Memphis Minnie - Pig Meat On The Line
« Reply #24 on: January 08, 2012, 05:38:51 PM »
Thanks Frank, that's very interesting.

Who's playing lead and who's on comp duty, do you think? I reckon Minnie's backing up, Son Joe playing the licks. I have little or nothing to base this theory on.

Perhaps the comping guitar is capoed at 5 playing out of G position, with the lead capoed at 3 playing out of A? Reason I think this is the comp chords are a sitting duck for G position, particularly the early move to the flat V and general C6-ness of the IV chord moves (actually F6, when capoed 5).

Here's a zipped m4a file that should play in iTunes or Quicktime if anyone's interested in listening for scholarly research purposes.



[attachment deleted by admin]
« Last Edit: January 08, 2012, 05:50:36 PM by Rivers »

Offline frankie

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Re: Memphis Minnie - Pig Meat On The Line
« Reply #25 on: January 08, 2012, 06:06:28 PM »
Sorry - neglected to say that the backup guitar sounds to me like C std (no capo)...

Offline Rivers

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Re: Memphis Minnie - Pig Meat On The Line
« Reply #26 on: January 08, 2012, 06:28:15 PM »
Makes sense. I'll play around with getting the backup and lead going separately with those settings. I want to eventually have it working for one guitar but what a great arrangement Minnie & Son Joe put together. It probably deserves a mention on the 'great guitar duets' thread. As does its cousin, Killer Diller Blues.

Offline dj

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Re: Memphis Minnie - Pig Meat On The Line
« Reply #27 on: January 09, 2012, 02:04:42 PM »
Quote
Who's playing lead and who's on comp duty, do you think?

According to both Big Bill Broonzy (Big Bill's Blues) and Paul Garon (Woman With Guitar), Son Joe played the backup while Minnie played lead.

Offline Rivers

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Re: Memphis Minnie - Pig Meat On The Line
« Reply #28 on: January 09, 2012, 04:25:11 PM »
Well there you go. Thanks dj!

Offline Indy_Mark

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Memphis Minnie Tab
« Reply #29 on: March 08, 2013, 09:25:16 AM »
Hi...brand new to the forum here.  Quite impressed so far! Does anyone know of a tab compilation of a decent amount of Memphis Minnie's material?  Thanks in advance!

 


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