Topic: Skip James' Guitar Style--Queries and Tips

[Rivers]

Caveats all round, I play two Skip songs, Special Rider in standard tuning and Illinois in Em. I get too depressed if I try to do much more, I'm simply too much of a sunny disposition to get the doominess required. I mess with Killing Floor but don't enjoy playing it for the reasons I mentioned.

I still think though if you really want to sound like Skip on the crossnote tunes you need to be in the minor tuning. Alvin was close but not quite there, Cephas gets much closer.

[deltaslim]

Thanks for the y'all.  Interesting discussion too, eh?

I guess the real question is: What is my/our primary objective -- play and sound like Skip or interpret the song in the I/we're most comfortable with?  I admit that part of the motivation/limitation is that learning it in a tuning I already use a lot allows me to practice it more.  And since my standard-tuned guitars are easer to reach for whereas you have the pull the Vastapol-tuned Tricone out it's case under the bed, etc... well... :-D

Like Rivers, I guess I've hit on an arrangement of some Skip tunes that I've grown fond of and works for me in live performance (Hard time killing floor in standard E, and Cypress grove blues in Vastapol).  But I'm  pretty sure that as I decide to seriously study more of Skip's and other's cross-note tunes, I'll definitely do em in that tuning.  It'll just be another arrow in the quiver, like standard, open G, open D...

[Johnm]

Hi delta slim,
If you are playing "Cypress Grove" in Vestapol, you are one half-step away from cross-note tuning, just lower your third string one semi-tone, from F# to F (or G# to G, if you are playing Vestapol in E).  Don't wait, try it today, give it a shot, at least.  There's no point in waiting.
All best,
Johnm

[uncle bud]

One of the signature sounds for me with certain classic Skip James tunes is that hammer-on trill he does so often on the third string between the open string and the first fret, the minor third and major third. You can get it in standard tuning, but not in Vestapol. So I agree, drop that string a half-step. The mental adjustment will be minimal IMO.

[deltaslim]

Hi delta slim,
If you are playing "Cypress Grove" in Vestapol, you are one half-step away from cross-note tuning, just lower your third string one semi-tone, from F# to F (or G# to G, if you are playing Vestapol in E).  Don't wait, try it today, give it a shot, at least.  There's no point in waiting.
All best,
Johnm

Hi John - I know and I have tried, its just that I've never really bothered do a note for note cover of the orig because I anticipate some practical limitations in a live gig context.  I guess I'm just exploring other approaches given those limitations. In the middle of a set, I really try not to test the audience's limited patience for audible retunings on acoustics.  Because of their somber mood, doing consecutive Skip James tunes is stretching the audience's capacity to absorb hardcore blues so I have to retune back to Vastapol or other anyway and try more Skip later on in the set. My solution is to bring guitars that are already tuned and stay tuned to standard, Vastapol, or Fandango.  But certainly, if and when I want cross-note, especially if I'm just practicing at home, I do shift to it from Vastapol.  As I said, if and when I build up a bigger repertoire of cross-note tunes, I'll certainly do it 'proper'. 

Thanks for your input.

[si]

Yes I play "killing floor" and "devil got my woman" in crossnote (open D minor) tuning.
Although in my (totally amateur) opinion they are major key.
Tried playing them in vestapol but did not like at all so went back to crossnote.
In my totally amateur opinion I do not consider those two pieces to be fully chordal, I think of the root chord as being just the two notes D and A, I fret an Fsharp but avoid emphasising it.
In the melody of "killing floor" I bend the F up about half a semitone and bend the C up a bit too. 
Incidentally crossnote is fun for some other tunes normally done in std tuning, for example "beulah land" by John Hurt.

[Coyote Slim]

I can't believe no one has mentioned Jack Owens in this thread yet!

Lots of cross-note tunes!

[deltaslim]

I reviewed my study list and realized there are quite number of cross-note stuff in there already.  So I got off my lazy *ss and, for starters, worked out the Skip James stuff and quickly got a number of em down (Hard time killin floor, Cypress grove, Cherry ball, Illinois) in the proper, purist-approved tuning. :-D   I'm not saying I got em down pat note-for-note, but close enough for a non-purist blues audience.

Then while playing with it I came up with some cool new riffs, licks.  It seemed some old compositions also sounded more appropriate in cross-note.  I have decided I'll write some new songs and arrangements in the tuning.  To make a long story short, I think got enough material to justify retuning for cross-note in a gig, and therefore doing the songs in the 'right' tuning.  And, oh yeah, they do sound better that way, even tho the notes are the same.

Thank you all for the inspiration and kick in the butt!

[Rivers]

That's great to hear Slim, it dos sound subtly different does it not.

Thank you all for the inspiration and kick in the butt!

That's what we're here for!

[farka]

Absolutely do the Dm tuning. If you're in open D, it is only a matter of taking the F# to F. I'm not the best on-the-spot tuning guy out there, but I do Skip tunes at live shows every once in a while, and it doesn't slow me down much at all to tune from open D to open Dm. You can't miss it when it's there.

One "trick" I employ is to do the F string slide from the second to fourth fret used in HTKF and Devil Got My Woman. 2~4~0. That just sounds right or it doesn't, and after a while it becomes automatic. When I tune back up, I just fret the IV as it would be in D (a C chord played using what would be an E7 shape if we're in standard tuning) and that rings pretty true when the F is back up to F#... maybe more importantly, it again sounds REALLY off if it is off a fraction.

If for no other reason, it seems to me like playing a Skip James song in standard tuning would be twice as much work as it is in D minor.

[Lwoodblues]

 farka is correct. Cephes teackes it that way and watching Skip, thats what it looks like even though you could probably play it in a number of tunings,

[uncle bud]

I notice that Orville Johnson has a lesson on Skip James in the latest Acoustic Guitar, available on the website at http://www.acousticguitar.com/article/Default.aspx?ArticleID=25611

[pfunk75]

Hi

I am exploring skip James r?pertoire (i Did get the John Cephas lessons). i am this week working on crow jane i could not find any accurate tabs any idea, i am trying to work on YouTube a skip james version.
another question would be how to work the tempo, do you work with a metronome ? do you just follow your soul or may be feet claping ? timing is something not that easy with skip james stuff.
thanks for your help !
felix

[Laura]

Hi Felix,

I don't know of anything on-line but I learnt a nice version of Crow Jane from this book:

http://www.guitarvideos.com/artists/stefan-grossman/country-blues-guitar-complete-set-lessons-1-3

It doesn't have any of the nice breaks but does outline your basics to work on.

[Rivers]

Try standard tuning, capoing at the 3rd fret, play out of C position, was my conclusion after listening and playing along. There's maybe something slightly different going on with respect to the voicing of the last repeated IV chords, perhaps a closed position jazzy F7 shape (not sure about this). Picking hand I think is alternating bass all the way. I have not attempted it in any alternate tunings, I believe he's in standard, capoed, C position.

This is based on the 'She Lyin' Genes CD version. Please feel free to post a link to the youtubes version you're studying. Interestingly Carl Martin seems to be configured like that also so I assume Skip got it from there.

I could be completely wrong though and will be interested in further comments.

[later: I'm hearing a low E flat in there which would tend to trash my theory. Maybe E position tuned down half a step? Henry Johnson seems to play it out of E position]