Topic: The Carter Family's Recordings: Playing Positions, Pitch, Vocal Arrangements

[frailer24]

John, I am sorry to inform you, but Maybelle reported in an interview that "Sara only knew about two keys on the guitar, C and G." And, as a Carter style player for many years, the aural evidence bears it out, although, on the 1928 recording of "My Clinch Mountain Home", Sara seems to use A position. When I get to my computer, I shall post my corrections. I have played Sara's backing through and through, and my thoughts appear correct.

[Johnm]

Larry,
If Maybelle said Sara knew only C and G positions, what makes you think she was playing in A position?  In fact, the aural evidence does not bear out Sara's playing in A position.  Neither Sara nor Maybelle recorded a single tune played out of A position.
All best,
Johnm

[frailer24]

I had been fooled by the low E flat on Sara's guitar. C sounds correct. But, I just don't hear F position in her work at all, on something like "You Denied Your Love", I tuned a quarter step low and used G position. Hopefully, I'm not wasting your time, I just don't want people being accidentally misinformed.

[Johnm]

Larry,
Please believe me when I tell you I am really careful about what I post in these threads.
All best,
Johnm

[frailer24]

John, let me start by saying I learned quite a bit from your filmed lessons, and have no intent of disrespect. I am just posting my thoughts on the matter, based on my own hearing. Just trying to give you something to chew on. I am not trying to say you are wrong, just that it is a possibility either way (to me at least ;-) ). P.S. Just tried F position and by gadfrey, it works! I guess I have a hard time picturing Sara using that position.

[chaspuck]

Johnm, you have done a mighty job here, congratulations! I stumbled on your work while listening to "Away Out on the Old Saint Sabboth" and wondering about Maybelle's position for the recording. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but are you saying that Maybelle is playing in the key of A out of a C position, i.e. that she is capoed on the 9th fret? I've tried it and it sounds like it's pitched too high.  What, to you, indicates that she is not playing in A without a capo?

Respectfully,
Charles

[chaspuck]

JohnM,

Please disregard that last question about playing in A. Obviously the low bass note on the 4 chord indicates that the A position isn't the one.  I should have opened my ears more carefully before I typed.

But I am still curious about the register-- do you believe she is playing capoed at the ninth fret?

Thanks,
Charles

[Johnm]

Hi Charles,
No, what it means is that Maybelle was tuned a minor third low, C#F#BEG#C#, so that when she strummed a C position chord, fingered X-3-2-0-1-0, what sounded was an A chord.  On the Carter Family's early recordings especially, Maybelle is often tuned quite low.  She never played out of an A position on their recordings.
All best,
Johnm

[frailer24]

Matter of fact, I don't believe she ever used A position at all, even in her solo years.

[Lebesgue]

JohnM,

This is fantastic!

I have been working through a few of the Carter Family songs and while I was able to figure out that Ma Carter tuned down a half step and played out of C for Keep on the Sunny Side by watching her play on youtube, I was really stumped as to what position to play Can the Circle be Unbroken in. 

I tried capoing on the 1st fret and playing out of G for example, but it was missing the low 5th in the bass. Its seems natural now after looking at the chart and playing it in the 'correct' position but it didn't really cross my mind that she would tune down two whole steps.  I'm really glad I happened across this page.

As a side note I've been tabbing out some of the Carter Family songs and posting them on ultimate-guitar where I don't really think they are much appreciated.  Is there somewhere on here I could put up tabs?

Thank you,

Peter

[Johnm]

Hi Peter,
Welcome to Weenie Campbell!  I'm glad you are enjoying the playing position table for the Carter Family.  We don't post TABs at Weenie Campbell for reasons relating to how much space they would take up, but also because we don't want that to become a primary focus of the site.  If you wish to post a message indicating how interested people could get such TABs from you, I'm sure that would be fine.
All best,
Johnm

[frailer24]

Peter, I am not sure if John mentioned this, but Sara's voice changed so drastically over time from smoking so heavily that in nearly every song, guitars were routinely tuned low. Now if anyone can figure out the autoharp positions, there lies a real challenge for anyone brave enough to take it. :-)

[Johnm]

Hi all,
Actually, the tuning low is more of a function of Maybelle's "comfort zone" playing positions relative to Sara's preferred singing keys.  From their earliest recordings up until their last recordings with the original personnel, one of Sara's favorite singing keys was A flat.  Had Maybelle been more comfortable and confident playing out of the G position, she could easily have put a capo on the first fret to play in A flat, or even tuned up a half-step, and fingered a G position to sound in A flat.  As things stood, especially early in their recording career, Maybelle was so much more comfortable playing out of C position that she often chose to tune two whole steps low just so she could play in C position and have it sound in A flat. 
On later recordings in A flat, Maybelle sometimes chose to capo and play out of an F position to sound in A flat--and there are far more tunes on which Maybelle played out of F position in the Carter Family's later years than their early years. 
All best,
Johnm

[frailer24]

I found that a good amount of Maybelle's work in F position is a bit more complex than first expected. Even more amazing is the sheer number of numbers in that position. For example, I tried "Carter's Blues" in F, and it worked suprisingly well. Then again, it works out of G just as easy. Thanks for your labor in this effort, John. Someday I shall work out the autoharp positions for completeness.

[uncle bud]

I recently was watching Mike Seeger's Southern Guitar Styles, and after flatpicking Black Jack David in F position, he notes that on the occasional tune where Maybelle flatpicked, she often favoured F position.