Topic: miking/pickup on a 12string - Help!

[Sugar Mamas Son]

Greetings!

I've been playing live with a Fraulini Francesca and been using a small diaphragm condenser mic with varying degrees of success.

I'm thinking about fitting a pickup and using it along with the mic for a more stable sound. Does anyone have any recommendations for good pickups or any useful live set up tips from their own experience?

The major manufacturers don't seem that clued-up about long-scale 12strings and sound engineers at venues don't really know what to do with one...

Thanks for your help, guys!!
David

[blueshome]

I've managed to get good live sound from my Angelina 12 using an AKG C1000. I've tried a Fishman soundhole pickup but could not live with the sound. Have you thought of putting your mic out through a small EQ unit so that you can tailor your own sound a little?

[Sugar Mamas Son]

Thanks for that; what about mic placement? Any tips? I've been going for 45' around the neck/body join area thus far...

I fully expected the p'up sound to be hard to live with. They always sound pretty naff.

I live in London btw, I see from your myspace you're in my neck of the woods? I help run www.bluesinlondon.com which might be of interest to you.

Cheers
David

[Big River]

I really like the K & K Pure Western system that mounts under the bridge plate on just about any acoustic guitar. It has a very woody, natural balance without that weird "quackiness" that most under the saddle pickups have. The only flaw I have found is a very slight roll off on the top end, but that just be on my guitar (a late 1930's Gibson L-OO). You can compensate for this roll off by EQing it up just a tad on the top end. I played a gig recently sharing a bill with another player who had an under the saddle Highlander pickup on a similar '30's Gibson L-OO and the K & K just sounded way more natural, retaining the acoustic tone.
I also use a AKG C1000s condenser mic that the previous thread mentioned  (I use it for my National resonator guitars that have no pickup) and it adds a bit of acoustic air to the overall sound, but if I had my choice between the microphone or the K & K I would go with the K & K as it has a more immediate, crisper response than just the microphone (and more volume without feedback). That AKG mic works great for a resonator guitar as those reso's put out a lot of volume, but I have a little difficulty getting the sound I want on a regular acoustic with just the microphone. Amplifying a twelve string really should not be any different than a six string.
One nice thing about the K & K is that they are very reasonable...my local guitar shop charges $150 including installation! You can't beat that. It sounds best with a preamp, but it actually sounds pretty good without one, which is pretty amazing.
That Fraulini 12 string is a wonderful guitar. A friend of mine has one and he has let me borrow it for recording. I love it! If you go to my My Space music page listed below you can hear it on the track where I play Blind Willie McTell's "Mama "Tain't Long For Day" (in G tuning, tuned down two steps in pitch) and there are even a couple of photos of me playing it on that space. Those guitars are featherlight and have a wonderful response. I plan on on ordering one when my finances improve. Hope this info helps.
James Clem
www.jamesclem.com
www.myspace.com/clemjames