WeenieCampbell.com
The Unwound Third => Other Musical Interests => Topic started by: Slack on September 17, 2006, 08:34:07 PM
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I thought some might be amused (or even appalled) by a report on Slackabilly's first gig. This is only peripherally related to country blues, so feel free to ignore!
A little background, and at the risk of telling you more than you want to know. Earlier this year, a couple of friends and I decided to fool around and 'start a garage band'. So we got together a couple of times a month and sure enough - had some fun fooling around, experimenting w/ 50's rock n roll, swing, jump, blues etc. 3 months ago we recklessly and foolishly decided to accept a free public gig on Sept 16th - the challenge being to see if we could come up with an hour of material good enough to play in public in 3 months time. An hour is a long time, and this gave the band focus. We decided (actually I decided, since I'm doing the lead singing) to focus on two genres: rockabilly and jump blues. I say recklessly and foolishly as only 2 of the 3 (myself and the bass player, Jeff*) had any rock n roll band experience - and that was in high school, 40 some odd years ago for both of us. The keyboard player's (Mark*) main musical interest for the past 30 years has been classical, but with strong side interest in stride, boogie and jazz piano - he can play all these styles (I agreed to do the band thing -- for an opportunity to play with Mark. He also plays sax and clarinet). With the threat of making a fool of oneself in public now firmly in place - we started practicing twice a week. :P
This has been a different and interesting experience (for me anyway)... playing with others, working around various members strengths and weaknesses, dealing with different personalities. And as it turns out, very rewarding, these are great guys, we are all pretty jazzed about the band and are looking forward to working on new repetoire... after we take a break. In any case, we did it.... we avoided making fools of ourselves. ;)
*A quick aside about Mark that Country Blues fans can appreciate. In high school (he's 54) he would go downtown to Good Will and buy 78s. The stride, boogie and jazz piano from the 20's and 30's blew his mind - he could not imagine how they were playing these pieces (sound familiar?). He found a company in El Paso that would transfer his 78s to 4 Track tape so he could play them on the 4-track player in his car! This is the music he played on a fateful first date - the date now happens to be his wife of 30+ years.
*Jeff has played bass (and guitar) in church bands for some time. He has a son who is a professional muscian, two brother-in-laws and a son-in-law who play in bands. He knows equipment (Mark and I are still trying to figure out what all these little knobs are for on our amps). The genres we are playing beg for an acoustic upright bass. Jeff rented one for a couple of months -- but like all bass players, he has other gigs and needed to consolidate on electric bass for the time being -- he does have plans to get an upright at some point.
The gig was an anuual picnic for the "Recovery Alliance" - which is a non-profit organization devoted to helping alcoholics and drug addicts stay clean and sober(there were probably lots of muscians in the audience, haha). Two downsides to the gig, 1)the audience could not drink and 2)neither could we (so I wore my "Clean and Sober" hat until the gig was over -- whereupon we immediately hit the bar). It was rumored that there may be 400 people at this event -- I'd guestimate about 125. It was a good first public gig to do, the audience was very polite and patient with our occasional timing and tempo problems (we are looking for a drummer - Richard, wish you lived a little closer! ;) and we had loads of fun. Fame and fortune may be delayed due to getting our name wrong on the handbill (attached). One pic attached, my photographer fell down on the job (no vocal action shot), but it does show we are attracting young groupie chicks. Set list below.
Rock Billy Boogie - Johnny Burnette Trio
Good Rockin' Tonight - Elvis
T-Bone Shuffle - T-Bone Walker
Choo Choo Chi Boogie - Louis Jordan
Lonesome Tears In My Eyes - Johnny Burnette Trio
Shake, Rattle & Roll - Big Joe Turner
Milk Cow Boogie - Levon Helm and the Cromatix
Little Sister - Elvis
I Got A Rocket In My Pocket - Jimmy Lloyd
Call it Stormy Monday - T-Bone Walker
Baby, Let's Play House - Elvis
Number 9 Train - Tarheel Slim
Twnety Flight Rock - Eddie Cochran
And I'll now have a little time to work on some PT lessons.
Cheers,
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Cool set list- good variety of songs, dig the Tarheel Slim in there with The Johnny Burnette Trio and of course Elvis, but no "Lonesome Train"?
And I have to say you look quite comfortable wearing that Nashville. Are you creating a new genre maybe Blues-a-Billy?
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Hi Gary,
Would love to do Lonesome Train(and about 6 more by JB Trio) -- so many songs, so little time! The Nashville is a nice guitar, maybe too nice - my flatpicking is lousy - but I "travis pick" hell out of it.
No new genres, lots of blues in rockabilly already!
(And thanks again for the performance t-shirt! ;) )
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Congratulations, Slack!
I agree with NotRev Gary - great set list, and the inclusion of two Johnny Burnette Trio songs marks you as obvious rockabilly connoisseurs. Can't wait to catch the band on your big Northeastern tour!
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I dunno, it starts with electric guitars and the next thing you know you're playing Stonehenge...
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I dunno, it starts with electric guitars and the next thing you know you're playing Stonehenge...
Mini-Stonehenge with his amp turn up to 11. :)
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Thanks guys, I got to admit - it is fun stuff to do.
CP, we like the name too -- even if they don't get it right on the handbill.
DJ and UB, I'll let you know when we get our myspace.com site up with our touring schedule and you can follow us around the country with the rest of the Slackheads. :P
UB & NotRev, I hate to sound like an out of it ol' foggie, but fill me in on what group played or what is the Stonehenge reference?
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The Tap...
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From Wikipedia on Spinal Tap:
A memorable segment of the film occurs when a miniature replica of Stonehenge is lowered onto the stage behind the band and two dwarves come on stage to dance around it. The band members were expecting a full sized 18-foot (5.5 meter) replica, but were instead presented with an 18-inch (46 cm) model, made exactly as indicated on the original plan (a bar napkin with two tick marks after the "18" instead of one). St Hubbins laments during the gig debrief, "I think that the problem may have been... that there was a Stonehenge monument on the stage that was in danger of being crushed... by a dwarf." It is commonly believed this was a play on Black Sabbath's tour for 1983's Born Again album, which featured massive Stonehenge sets that barely fit on the stages the band played (Sabbath's management had ordered the set measurements in feet, but the manufacturers accidentally built the set using meters). But in reality the reverse may be true, as the Stonehenge sequence appeared in a 1982 20-minute demo of the film. Led Zeppelin also had a Stonehenge stage theme in the final U.S. concerts held in Oakland, California in July 1977.
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Haha, thanks UB - no wonder, I never checked out Spinal Tap even though it was recommended.
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Hi Slack,
Courageous.
I would never........not yet anyway.
If your musical abilities are even a fraction of your website building capabilities ...it was probably pretty entertaining!
This website is pretty neat.
roz
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Double eeek:
I'm shocked and appalled."Rocket in my Pocket" indeed! (I'll have to ask Steph if 'tis so!). This is worse sellout than Bob Dylan going electric.
BTW, I'm sure your singing set back the recovery of your audience years!
Seriously, you need to grow longer sideburns.
Devil's music!
Alex
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That is really cool, John D. I'm jealous--an electric band! Onward and upward!
All best,
Johnm
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This has me grinnin' from ear to ear! Photos are nice but I know we all really want video. Slack meets Christopher Guest.
I bet you guys were great and you obviously had fun!
Your Fan,
Temple
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I'm shocked and appalled."Rocket in my Pocket" indeed! (I'll have to ask Steph if 'tis so!).
In the queue: Red Hot (My gal is red hot, your gal ain't doodley squat) - Steph let's me sing anything.
BTW, I'm sure your singing set back the recovery of your audience years!
You load enough delay and reverb into the PA -- and anyone can sound fabulous. ;D I had to forego singing "Hey Bartender" however.
Thanks Johnm - imagine that!
Temple, a video? maybe in the distant future. Thanks for being our groupie without even hearing us yet. (We are keeping our eyes out for groupies who can also haul around heavy equipment. :P )
And thanks Roz, I worked pretty hard on the site for about a year and a half and I expect it to take Slackabilly about that long to really gel too!
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Congratulations Slack!
I think no one is going to believe that you haven't so far recorded so much as one song! Come on, confess and post an mp3 and put us out of our misery! :D
A beautiful guitar by the way!
Cheers
Pan
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Brilliant........ well done ;) I remembr my first gig at 17 on the back of lorry at a student rag week.. grim but fun!
Now promise if me if I make it again to the States and perchance get your way I can do a gig with the band !!
Be an honour ;)
Come over to weenie Guernsey and we'll see if we can put it together!
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A beautiful guitar by the way!
I'll second that. I meant to ask: Did you have to buy that guitar once you'd joined the band? Because if that's the case, I may need to join a band, too! :P
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Yes, I didn't think I'd ever get e-GAS, but that electric thingamabob of Slack's is very comely...
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I think no one is going to believe that you haven't so far recorded so much as one song! Come on, confess and post an mp3 and put us out of our misery!
Pan, those would be our 'basement tapes' and we are not prepared to release those until... well, until fame and fortune is assured. :P
Now promise if me if I make it again to the States and perchance get your way I can do a gig with the band !!
You bet Richard, the bass player even owns a set of drums - you won't even have to bring your own! :D
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A beautiful guitar by the way!
I'll second that. I meant to ask: Did you have to buy that guitar once you'd joined the band? Because if that's the case, I may need to join a band, too!
Yes, I didn't think I'd ever get e-GAS, but that electric thingamabob of Slack's is very comely..
DJ, I bought the first guitar after I joined the band (telecaster), and then the second guitar after we decided what genres we were going to play(gretsch). And now I'm just buying them for fun (danelectro). So don't wait, we are approaching middle age after all. Cheaper than comparable acoustics, the only downside is that they need this box-like thing called an "amp". :P
Here you go, just to fuel your gas, it can do the twang thang and it can do the smooth T-bone thang.
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Way to go John - at least you guys had good equipment! And you remember the carpenter's saying - it's a poor workman that blames his tools.
>:D
Sounds like you guys had a blast, and will probably be on the road in a converted school bus any day now.
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Well done, Slackjaw Johnny! Pulling together a band, taking on vocals, and being the sole guitar player is no mean feat. And it sounds like you had a heckuva good time doing it!
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Thanks Dave and FP,
It was quite a bit to chew off -- but it's amazing what you can get away with if you pretend like you know what you are doing. :D
Country Blues is a fundamental part of a lot roackabilly and so many of those guitar parts are pretty simple - vocals in most of the above are pretty simple too, I ain't no crooner. You'll also notice a music stand in front of my mic -- I needed quite a few lyrics in bold face 20pt type.
But what really helps is having that keyboard. If I could not sing over some boogie guitar part, Mark filled in the guitar line. He does bass lines, sax lines - whatever... he can cover the range. I will try to get an mp3 of 'Choo Choo Ch' Boogie' sometime, he's doing sophisticated bass lines (ones the bass player cannot do) under his breaks - fabulous. Mark's transcribes all his breaks (his comfort zone) - we turned him on to the software "Transcribe!" and he just goes to town with some great stuff. On the other hand, he's never played in a band, so stuff you and I would take for granted in working on something together - was initially completely foreign to him. We had to spend time learning to communicate, had to explain the nashville numbering system, 12 bar catch phrases like 'quick change', 'stay on the five' and even what a 'tunraround' was! Had to point out that the songs are fluid and not rigid and keyed off the vocal. Needless to say there have been some funny and interesting communication break downs. But he's hooked now, we are supposed to be taking a break and he sent an email yesterday wondering what he is supposed to be working on, which is just great.
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I think no one is going to believe that you haven't so far recorded so much as one song! Come on, confess and post an mp3 and put us out of our misery! :D
OK Pan, I know after well over a year you are not going to believe it - but we've just started to fool a bit with recording. It is a recreational band after all. :) Anyway, we plugged a laptop into the mixing board and recorded a practice. A multitude of problems, the usual timing, pitch, flubs etc - not to mention live levels don't equate to recorded levels. But here are 4 tunes that were 'decent' - posted for the select weenie crowd. ;)
Choo Choo Chi Boogie
Gravy Train
Lonseome Tears In My Eyes
One Hand Loose
Some of my favorites we do are with saxophone, but the delay level which sounds very cool live, sounded pretty bad from the mixer. In any case, a pretty good representative of what we are having a blast doing. We've got a wedding to do on the 30th - so maybe we'll snag a few additional tunes.
Click "Tunes" on http://slackabilly.com (the much better vocals are Ken, our drummer.)
Cheers,
slack
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Cool Slack! What happened to the guitar on the Choo choo mix? It needs punctuating with some pterodactyl screams and brontosaurus bends like the ones you're doing on the other tracks. The piano guys is, as you say, a gem.
Loved the other three tracks, esp. Gravy Train. The harmony vox work great where they appear, you should keep working them up. Likewise the callouts, "yeahs!" etc are a gas and sound completely natural.
Yeah I'm craving a 6120 too. Does that have the TV Jones p/u's? Sounds excellently scary on Gravy Train and Lonesome Tears, assuming that's the same guitar.
Your voice works well for the genre. Just keep pushing it out there and forget about being self critical. It sounds great to the rest of us. Keep it up dude!
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Haha.. thanks! It really is a ton of fun.
We do Choo Cho ala Louis Jordan so I only play rhythm on Choo Choo, which on our poor mix, gets drowned out by the piano - which is OK as the piano parts are pretty great. So, no pterodactyl screams on Choo Choo (we have plenty of other songs to scream and yell on however). :P
Ken sings good harmony and we do "Everybody's Trying To Be My Baby" entirely in vocal harmony. We'll get a good mix of that one soon -- it is a sax piece and one of my favorites. The bass player also joins in on some vocal backing - so we working on developing the vocals more.
I sold my 6120 w/ filterons and now play a Duo Jet with single coil dynasonics (which I'm holding on the front page glamor pic), I like dynasonics a lot better. Actually I'd love a 6120 DSW (western motif, dynasonics) - but domestic tranquility dictates that I pace the number of guitars I go through. :D You might prefer filterons however, so if you get the 6120 itch, play both.
I'll get a picture of our setup on the 30th -- I think you'll find it interesting. -- using the latest in technology to produce that 50's sound. ;D
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Thanks for the heads up on the 6120 DSW, I wasn't aware of that guy. Kudos to Gretsch for reviving one of the great American guitars and making it even better. Man, I can't believe you sold that sucker though, Filteron or not!!!
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Man, I can't believe you sold that sucker though, Filteron or not!!!
Yea, I do regret it on occasion. But they are still making them ;) ... the Japanese are doing a fabulous job building them too - many think that they are the best Gretsch's ever. A year ago they had great deals on Gretschs as they were closing out many lines in preparation for the Chet Adkins endorsement - which they stuck on everything. I pickup up the duo jet new, for dirt cheap.... and I wish I had bought another couple of models as well!
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Great tunes, Slack!! You are right about your keyboard player. I wish he would come to Pt T so I could look over his shoulder. Glad you are having so much fun with the band!
ho ho ho
Temple
:D
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I'd say you're right on the track -Slack! :P
Great pianist. You really have a great guitar sound for this kind of music. And I loved the vocal harmonies.
Have a great gig on the 30th! And post some pictures.
Cheers
Pan
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John:
Triple eeek..Happy New Year.
Joe Buzzard says music began it's downhill slide with the electric bass.
Keep workin' on the 'burns.
Alex
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Triple eeek..Happy New Year.
Joe Buzzard says music began it's downhill slide with the electric bass.
Keep workin' on the 'burns.
Alex, all I can tell you, and Joe --- is that you are not, and never will be, our target audience. :P
Happy New Year to you too! ;)
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I'll get a picture of our setup on the 30th -- I think you'll find it interesting. -- using the latest in technology to produce that 50's sound. :D
OK Mark, you might be the only one interested, ... on second thought, anyone that is performing, solo or otherwise, should check out Bose's PAS (Personal Amplification Systems). I'm not really a Bose fan, and they are awfully proud of thier stuff - but they have a winner in the PAS - we use two of them (the original models, one bought as a reconditioned unit and the other bought used off of eBay).... google them to see what they look like.
The attached photo may be a little dark... but will give you an idea of our setup. I'll post some low quality videos on YouTube, especially for Alex, as soon as I figure out how.
The idea is to make things fun and easy and something we can grow old doing (or older doing :) ) - so no hauling around a bunch of heavy equipment. We use two original Bose PAS systems, 3 of their bass modules and a small mackie mixer to run everything through - bass, drums, guitar, keyboard, sax, and 3 vocal mikes. The drummer runs sound from a small table sitting next to his Trapps shell-less drum set (the whole drum set assembled but folded, fits in the back of his Honda Element, passenger seat intact). We have slapback on the vocals, sax and guitar and I have a box, built by the drummer (he is an EE and has done professional sound before) that simulates a Fender Bassman with high and low gain ("Slack's Edge"). No amps, no monitors - and it sounds terrific live. Sound is projected 180 degrees, no dead spots. We can play at lower volumes as sound is projected further by the line array. (We are still learning how to use the system to best advantage, we did have a few feedback problems on the 30th as the room was very 'hard" - concrete floors, rocks walls, tin roof - but the outside concerts we did this summer and fall were no problem sound-wise, we got many compliments.)
The "Palm Trees" in back of the drums are the 2 Bose systems -- palm heads velcro-ed on, cloth covering the array "trunks" and lights around the trunks. Bass modules are stacked (cannot see), and a Bob Jr., simulated Tiki torch on top. Don't ask me what any of that has to do with rockabilly music - we're just in it for the fun. We should probably be playing surf music! :P Anyway, makes for a very clean stage... Youtube videos coming...
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Love the palm trees!! The PAS system does look good and gets rave reviews. I had a demo in GC and was suitably impressed. You'd definitely need two to get an interesting sound I think, and the optional bass drivers. Why 3 bass units actually?
Don't you miss out on valve amp distortion from the guitar a little bit, though you can get it with something inserted in the guitar channel I guess...? Oh wait I just re-read, that must be 'Slack's Edge'. Very interesting! I guess you must be mixing down to subgroups and adding slapback to the groups via another insert.
Must be a joy for the sound guy and that's half the battle. No monitors, yum.
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Why 3 bass units actually?
That's what came with our refurb/used units. We'll probably add one more bass unit. Bass guitar, bass drum and keyboard, suck up the low end and the tone improves with additional bass modules - ea module has 2 - 6 in speakers.
Oh wait I just re-read, that must be 'Slack's Edge'. Very interesting!
;D
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Very cool, and I'm assuming here it sounds really good! The tweed look is pretty fabulous. I see it's in-series with the echo, so you must have two or more echo units going, separate ones for the vocals and sax. Nice. Good solution. Somebody's been thinking. I'd love to play with that little box. Is he making any more? ;)
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I'd love to play with that little box. Is he making any more? ;)
Ha, I'll ask him. The box is just a electric junction box (from home depot), he downloaded the tweed pattern off the internet and printed it on some kind of gloss self adhesive paper for a cover. He is a clever and creative fellow, that's for sure.
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Cowboys in Paradise, we have no shame. :P
http://youtube.com/results?search_query=slackabilly&search=Search
Sound quality is poor, recorded on a Flip camcorder (about the size of a pack of cigarettes, amazing). Most of these will be deleted in the near future I think, so I'd be selective in your viewing so as not to waste too much time. :D Try:
I Wanna Bop
Everybody's Tryin' To Be My Baby ...and maybe
Hey Bartender
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Hey Slack,
Thanks for posting these. It sounds like it was fun, and you got people dancing to it!
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Thanks Doug, we figure if we can get folks to smile, laugh or dance --- we've done our job. :)
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So when's the world tour?
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So when's the world tour?
We're ready - as long as we don't have to stay up past 10pm.
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Hey Slack - your vocals are sounding pretty good! I especially enjoyed the conveniently placed lyrics sheets, and the waiter tucking a longneck into your [custom built?] mic stand beverage holder. Everyone in the band looks like they're having fun, so I'm happy for you! BTW - you might want to check out a guy named Ridley Bent if you want to hear some tunes with interesting lyrics - he has created a new genre known as "Hick Hop" - clever rhyming and stories with a fair bit of humour. Here's a sample of love gone wrong (she got the couch and he got the records) from a tune that's getting airplay here, called "Nine Inch Nails:
But wouldn't you know it, the jackets are wrong
And the sad ones are gone
I got her Tool collection and she got my Working Man's Blues
She got my Tom T Hall and I got her Husker Du
We got 'em all mixed up when we were high on rails
She got my Nine Pound Hammer, and I got her Nine Inch Nails.
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Why haven't I heard you sing before? You have a great voice!!!
Have you quit your day job? :)
Temple
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I've been trying to talk Stephanie into taking that third job so I can quit and devote full time to putzing around -- somehow, that has not gone over too big.
Thanks you two for the (too)kind comments - I'd say the vocals are improving.... and that is one advantage of playing in a group where initially no one else wanted to sing. Once it appeared that no one was going to yell out "you suck!" - it's been pretty easy to have no shame. :P
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A big slap on the back there, and I echo (no puns intended) the comments of my colleagues above. Love a lot of the guitar stuff you're doing, have no idea what it is but would like to
steal learn a few of those licks when I see you. I'll make a list.
Your singing has come a long way, I'm jealous.
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learn a few of those licks when I see you. I'll make a list.
Lordy, that'll take about 5 minutes! :P
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Hi John D.,
I've also enjoyed the Slackabilly tunes I've listened to--it sound like you're all having a lot of fun with vocals, groove, special effects and material all working well together.
I was listening to the JSP "Shake That Thing" set recently, and noticed that some of the Ralph Willis tracks almost sound like early rockabilly, and could definitely be done that way, sort of like Carl Perkins' "Matchbox". I'l dig up some good candidates and pm you with them.
All best,
Johnm
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Thanks John - sometimes it works well together, other times not! hey, you're trying to suck me back into country blues aren't you? ;)
Seriously, do send me your track picks -- I think I'll have to pick the JSP set up - I just listened to Ralph Willis, 30 sec clip of "I'm Gonna Rock" and it definitely sounds like rockabilly to me(not to insult Ralph Willis). Do you know the date on the Willis tracks?
Cheers,
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I was listening to Professor Longhair in the car today and thought of you guys. Plenty of good material and ideas there. He messes with the time signatures for variation, good trick. Try 'Ball The Wall'. I have no idea what it means but it's a happenin' little number and I'm sure the piano player would love it.
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John, thanks for pointing out that JSP 'Shake...' set, I was listening to some short cuts on the web and it sounds really really interesting. Seems JSP are on a roll at present.
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Hi John D.,
I listened to all of the Ralph Willis tracks on "Shake That Thing" and the following seem like they might be good candidates for Slackabilly:
* That Gal's No Good
* Goin' To Chattanooga
* Amen Blues
* Tell Me Pretty Baby
* I'm Gonna Rock (this one is already rockabilly)
* Cool That Thing
* Bed Tick Blues (good novelty number)
All best,
Johnm
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Thanks John, I think I'll go buy the set!
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If you'll indulge me one more time. :D We've gone back and tried to get decent recordings for demo purposes - e.g. we need something to hand out in order to get gigs. I need a few of those critical weenie ears - not so much for performance issues (we'll be working on those for awhile), but for recording/sound suggestions or arrangement suggestions. We've got 3 decent (our opinion) cuts of various instrumental and vocal arrangements taken straight off the mixer using this digital recorder...
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/MAudio-MicroTrack-II-Portable-Digital-Recorder?sku=241715
...with the idea that we'll just start recording performances/practices and hope we capture some good performances (blind squirrel finding a nut premise). We're not interested in recording individual tracks e.g. we want to do "live" recording only or "field" type recording as in the old tradition. e.g. this is pretty much how we sound live, for better or worse. :)
It's a pretty slick little recorder btw. The original recordings are in two channels, but I put up mono versions to save download time and space.
http://www.slackabilly.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_docman&task=cat_view&gid=15&Itemid=13
Thanks!
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I haven't listened to the samples yet... I'm still stuck on the Slackabilly Swag page, struggling to decide whether I need the Slackabilly BBQ Apron, or the Slackabilly T-Shirt for my dog first... :-\
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Slack, I've got one suggestion. On Choo Choo Chi Boogie and Hey Bartender I'd bring the guitar up in the mix a bit. Actually, even on One Hand Loose I'd goose it just a tiny bit.
Your vocals are sounding really good!
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struggling to decide whether I need the Slackabilly BBQ Apron, or the Slackabilly T-Shirt for my dog first... Undecided
Doug, I cannot help you - those are both such huge sellers. :P
Thanks DJ, on another take I had the guitar up higher on Choo Choo, but thought it too loud, made things muddy so turned it down - but, being the guitar player, I like the direction of your suggestions. ;)
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Hi Slack,
I listened to the songs before I went to sleep last night (talk about strange dreams... O0), and I agree with dj's comments...
First, it sounds really good. I was impressed by the recording quality, and the sound of the band in general, and your singing in particular.
The drums seemed a bit too "forward" for my liking... especially on Choo Choo, but also on One Hand Loose. That may just be my preference, but it was like the drums were on top, your singing was behind that, and then the other instruments were layered behind that. (The spatial analogy may not be helpful, but I was hearing more drums than I wanted to, and less of the other stuff). The piano on Choo Choo is really fun, and I'd like to hear it more.
But all in all, nice demos... they give people a flavor of what they can expect with Slackabilly, and the quality is high enough that the recording won't get in the way of their decision...
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Hi Slack
I too would like to hear a little more guitar on the first two tunes.
Your singing is very, very good on these takes! Congratulations!
Pan
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OOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWW!- Johnny Burnett
I have to agree with dj need to kick up the guitar a bit on On Choo Choo Ch' Boogie and Hey Bartender and drop down a bit on the drums. The vocals are waaaayyy cool and I really like One Hand Loose.
What type of echo/delay are you using live?
Looking forward to my Slackabilly swag.
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Thanks for the comments fellars. Coupla things:
after recording we immediately played back, through the PA, the recording and then adjusted levels -- I think that is what may have happened to the guitar on the two tracks - it came over clearer than when you listen on stereos or headphones even.
Also, Ken (the drummer) sings on One Hand Loose - he's the one with the experienced voice, he moves a lot of air at very good volume. He's very generous with patient with my vocals, he's a great harmonizer (which is a mystery to me, but I'm going to learn). We'll definitely put up more of his tunes - he is an excellent blues singer.
Here are some comments from our former bass player (who appears at the very beginning of this thread), who has quite a lot of sound experience. He has the advantage of knowing the band well -- but agrees with all of your comments. I asked for criticism from Jeff in a separate email and here was his response:
----snip---
Excellent ? a remarkable improvement over the recordings done last year. You clearly have the right tools to produce excellent recordings. The songs sounded much better than ?demo? and are quite acceptable, as is. But, you made the mistake of asking for my critical assessment ? so here goes:
Slackabilly is a live band but the recordings don?t sound live. Everyone seemed to be on their ?toes?, being very careful to not mess-up. The recordings are technically very good, but the ?spark? that makes live music fun and exciting was missing. Easily fixed as you record actual ?gigs?. I suggest you add one or two mic?s, pointed at the crowd and not in the mix to the PA, to pick-up the crowd ? and be sure to leave some of the band ?patter? on intros and outtros. Keep it interesting, live and lively. The demos need to show that the band and the crowd are having fun. You are selling entertainment, not music. That?s my opinion anyway.
I would go stereo, even at this point. I can?t really judge how the recording sounds ? I?m too used to stereo. Some of the ?spark? I was looking for might return in stereo.
Specific songs:
Choo Choo ? Vocals sounded a little muddy and over processed (reverb or echo) on cheap headphones. Much better on very good headphones and my low-medium quality home stereo. Still, you have to master to the lowest common denominator ? your prospects will probably listen on a boom-box or cheap computer speakers.
You guys are good enough to go with a cleaner vocal sound with a higher-end EQ that cuts through the mix. The lower end EQ, with vocal processing, sounds good to the singer, but a cleaner sound with more treble EQ will help the crowd hear the vocals.
I never did hear the guitar. The piano solo was up-front and sounded good. Drums were good and kept the song moving, although it seemed to drag a bit, at least to me. A little more bass would sound good to me. I liked the whistle at the beginning and end.
Hey Bartender ? Vocals right on, although I would cut a little of the vocal processing. The sax sounded great and definitely up-front on the solos. Drums were solid ? I could still use a little more bass (I may be prejudiced). This song also seemed to drag at bit ? more caffeine for the band (I bet you did this at the end of a practice session when everyone was tired).
One Hand Loose ? Great new song. Solid vocal sound. I?d like more bass. Guitar sounded great ? I missed it on the earlier two tracks. I liked the ?click? (off the rim of the snare?) at the beginning, but it quickly got old.
That is being as critical and picky as I can be.
Record everything ? mic the crowd ? make it fun. You can relax about the sound quality ? it is very good ? much better than I expected coming off the mixer. Just do what you do best ? play ? sing and have fun with the crowd.
---and then after he'd read this thread---
I?d agree with everything posted on the county blues forum ? It?s good to see that your old friends haven?t abandoned you, despite your growing addiction to the ?devil?s music?. Sounds like we all missed the guitar ? It also sounds like I?m the only bass player! Since you are limited to two tracks and no live mixing, I think that the band is going to become very good at controlling individual dynamics. And that is a good thing ? just like the old days when recording was single mic, one take.
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I told him my friends didn't have any choice, since I was the technical geek who kept the forum running. :P
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I think that all of the above is excellent advice!
I once had to "master" an acoustic jazz demo recording, because no-one else would (for free, that is :P). Let me assure you, that I have absolutely none of the skills required to do this kind of a job :-X.
After days of work and frustration and many dozens of asolutely "final" takes, compressing and EQuing I'd say that the first thing to do, is to burn the recording into a CDr, and to listen to it in, and with, any possible situation and gear you can think of. Your PA can't deliver the goods in this sense, because it's simply not ment to do this kind of job. Use all of your and your friends home and car stereos etc. Your demo should sound good and clear as a bell with the crappiest CD player / stereos on earth :).
For example on one set of speakers something might sound ok, on the next one the bass might be far too boomy etc.
It might be a good idea to give the recording a few days rest before you start to working on it. Right after recording you are usually loaded with expectations and enthousiasm that might affect how you hear things.
All the modern day effects usually sound really cool when you first hear them. But after a few months you usually wish you didn't use them, after all.
And I agree, the bass is too low in the mix as well.
Pan :P
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he's the one with the experienced voice, he moves a lot of air at very good volume
Slack, don't sell yourself short. I've been listening to Hey Bartender, and I think the vocals are the strongest part of the performance. You're on key, you've got a nice (and appropriate) tone, you've got your phrasing down, you sell the lyrics - like the Elvis "wobble" when you sing "Hey baby can we be friends" - and you know what your voice will do - like the little falsetto slide on the "Hey" of "Hey Bartender" - and don't try to push it into something you can't do. It's a really nice performance.
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he's the one with the experienced voice, he moves a lot of air at very good volume
Slack, don't sell yourself short. I've been listening to Hey Bartender, and I think the vocals are the strongest part of the performance. You're on key, you've got a nice (and appropriate) tone, you've got your phrasing down, you sell the lyrics - like the Elvis "wobble" when you sing "Hey baby can we be friends" - and you know what your voice will do - like the little falsetto slide on the "Hey" of "Hey Bartender" - and don't try to push it into something you can't do. It's a really nice performance.
I very much agree!
Since you do have the potential, I'm a little surprised to not hear your great ensemble vocal harmonies much on the demos. Don't hold back, this is what really might make a big difference for someone looking for a band to perform.
Pan :)
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I'm a little surprised to not hear your great ensemble vocal harmonies much on the demos.
And I very much agree with this.
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Thanks guys, I think Bflat must be my key then. :)
This was our first pass at recording, listening, adjusting levels (technique/timing/flubs), and then immediately re-recording. We either did not get to the ensemble vocals we had lined up, or we were not satisfied with the takes of the ones we had. Jeff, the former bass player, was right - he could tell by listening that we were tired on some of those pieces (it's hell to grow old ya know?) and conscious of recording.
We'll get there though - we were actually a little surprised to come away with what we thought were some decent takes. Recording this way is a bit of a compromise, what you hear live and what you hear recorded are two different things (and two different skills). We are looking for some recording settings that we can set and forget when playing live, and replacing demos as we get better ones -- the other thing we might try is recording off a mike instead of the mixer. So your feedback is very helpful. Sometimes you've played this stuff so often that you need reality check - so we (I've pointed fellow band members to this thread, they now know I have a secret life :P ) really appreciate the reality check. We'll take your suggestions into account and we'll record more this Saturday at practice and at a gig we have a week from Saturday... hopefully we'll get some good cuts of the vocal ensemble pieces.
Onward and upward! :)
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Ah the great golden bird, simple, brain-free multitrack live recording.
You're gonna have to go up a big notch in the hassle department to really get what you want. And maybe one person doing only the recording and another the main mix/monitors. Just my opinion! It stops being fun at some point.
Alternatively, how about two mics overhead / out front, and one on stage about 3 feet off the deck. Put them through the board, submix those with the other channels down to a nice stereo submix, then to a recorder. You might be able to bleed some of the room mics into the mains but your gain-before-feedback will go down several notches, so they'd be best just for the recording. Capturing a good live stereo mix won't help you mixdown later, but it will give the recording more punch.
You really have to ask yourself how far you want to go, there's an incremental jump you'll have to make if the answer is "as good as we can get it". Fun though!
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You are one sick individual. :P
And maybe one person doing only the recording and another the main mix/monitors. Just my opinion! It stops being fun at some point.
We have no monitors or! we have no main... take your pick. You see it's already much simpler. ;D
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Yes, just a pair of mics above the audience to get a good stereo image and one on/closer to the stage. Move them around and play with the mix til you get a full sound, vary the distances mic-to-mic if something sounds a bit flat or dead (phase cancellation). There is always a sweet spot.
Make sure that nobody actually playing in the band gets anywhere near having to worry about it, other than just playing when the soundguy says 'play' in the soundcheck. IMO, for me personally, it's not possible to do sound (other than solo or two guitars & vocals, but really prefer not to) and play as well. Furthermore I've never seen anyone else do it successfully either! There must be a reason, perhaps it's the potential of ruining two careers, both your own, in the same night.
I fully expect a flood of examples along the lines of 'third violin was doing sound for the London Philharmonic' just to rub it in what a lousy soundman I am... People, I know, I know!
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I understand what you are saying, but this is recreation, and we're bucking convention - our drummer, even though he is in the worst position to do it (because of the loud racket he is making with his drums), does sound. :P
What makes this possible are the Bose PAS systems - all sound is coming from right behind us, via line array speakers at 180 degrees. The system is self monitoring, we hear pretty much what the audience does. I'm no Bose fan bois, but it's made a big difference on how we approach sound. Our Live sound, outdoors, has been dialed in. We're working on indoor sound, lower volume - with a good (enough) take off for recording decent demos. Maybe it's too much to ask - but we'll have fun trying. ;)
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That's really what I was trying to say, the sound image is so good with the PAS you just want to get a faithful (yet funky) room sound. Putting 2 room mics, condensers, above the audience would get most of it, a third mic, could be a dynamic, closer/on the stage would give it more raunch, especially the kick drum and guitar.
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Aha, I need to read more carefully. Yes! I'd like to try that, makes sense!
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I learned that configuration from a highly respected livesound/recording engineer and have seen it working for myself in limited practice, accidentally on one occasion, I left a stage vocal mic open (not mixed into the mains, just into the recording), it had the best sound of all the recorded channels (ADAT) and held everything else together at mixdown.
The stereo overhead condensors are a no brainer when you think about it, but the one extra stage mic is brilliant for giving it some punch and it's fairly hassle free, relatively speaking. Play around with the spacing though, find the best placement. Bottom line, I think you could get an amazing live stereo recording with just two condensers and one dynamic mic, given the capabilities of the PAS. Fun project.
PS you'd need a mixer for the recording to do it that way since somehow you have to get 3 distinct channels down to 2. I guess with the PAS you could quite happily be getting away with having no mixer at all right now, am I right?
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Bottom line, I think you could get an amazing live stereo recording with just two condensers and one dynamic mic, given the capabilities of the PAS. Fun project.
Not to mention picking up some audience sounds as well... as Jeff mentions above. We'll fool with the current setup for awhile anyway, in hopes we can use that to get an audience. ;) Ken (drummer) is an EE, has been into sound for awhile and loves this stuff - I think he has just as much fun messing around with sound as he does playing in the band.
PS you'd need a mixer for the recording to do it that way since somehow you have to get 3 distinct channels down to 2. I guess with the PAS you could quite happily be getting away with having no mixer at all right now, am I right?
Our two PAS systems have two channels each, they were designed for individual musicians... so not enough channels for us to run our stuff (3 vocal mikes, drums, bass, guitar, piano, sax). So we use a small mackie mixer.
Bose's has a T1 add-on "ToneMatch audio engine" that makes more channels available, and I suppose if we bought that (500 bucks, they are real proud of their stuff) we could get rid of the mixer. But I think we'll work with our 2 used, old model PAS systems w/ mixer for awhile.
Here is our basic setup that we worked out with the bose boys last July, except we are now plugging the guitar in direct (through Ken's custom pedal) instead of miking the guitar through an amp. Ken is in the process of refining it by using a compressor and feedback gate... which has helped smooth things out a bit.
http://bose.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/301107819/m/8091081674?r=3981085674#3981085674
Which reminds me, NotRev - I use a Roland echo pedal RE-20. Ken uses some brand of echo I had not heard of for vocals and sax. Talked to him last night, he was very interested in folks replies, and he said he forgot to clip the high end off the echo (he built some new pvc rack for his stuff and configured it wrong for the vocal.sax echo) and that was why it sounded a bit too echo-ey. So the vocal/sax echo usually sounds more 1950's style than it did on those demos.
Hope not too many eyes are glazing over. :D
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Thanks John, my Boss DD-3 is a bit sterile I spent a whole night micro-adjusting last week but couldn't get what I'm looking for I did find some other cool settings but I don't really want to play Radiohead stuff just yet. My biggest problem is I'm not getting enough effect or too much effect.
If it's not too much trouble could you send me a photo of the Roland's and your band mates settings for the echo/delay?
Thanks Gary
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Hello Gary, Hello Gary, Hello Gary, Hello Gary, Hello Gary,
Ken is following this thread, so he kindly forwarded the following - thank goodness we can get him out of his garage laboratory to drink beer and play music once in awhile. ;D
---snip---
We're using a Boss (Roland) RV-3 guitar delay pedal of all things. It
really has a very clean sound and good delay & reverb functions and of
course a nice compact package. It's obsolete but the successor, RV-5,
looks similar and probably is quite comparable. I run it with a single
repeat echo at my best guess of 115ms delay (seems like I read that was the
magic number back in the day, probably based on tape-loop head spacing &
tape speed). It sits in the aux loop so I can dial varying amounts on
different channels. If you refer to the photo, I set Balance to EFX,
Tone/FBACK full CCW (to get just the one repeat), RTIME/DTIME to about 8
o'clock (to set the delay time), and MODE to 2 (short delay, no reverb).
The "cleanliness" of the sound is typically what people regard as
"sterile". The RV-3 has a 1K resistor in series with its output which
means you can just hang a 0.047uF capacitor on it (cleverly hidden inside
the 1/4" plug barrel, soldered across the terminals) to cut the treble
noticibly. It gives a bit of character to it and the part I like best
(which Slack alluded to in a previous post) is that it "hides" the echo
effectively by suppressing much of the definition of the sound in the echo.
If the echo has equal HF content to the dry signal it's easy for them to
clash IMO. When I reconfigured our sound system I put new cables in this
loop, forgetting about this capacitor mod. That's partly why the echo on
the demos sounds obtrusive. (That, and the fact that there's too much in
places anyway).
Another step that can be taken is to insert a tube or FET-based emulating
preamp or buffer in the signal path to generate that "musical distortion"
sound that tubes are prized for. This is the source of much of the
"warmth" people associate with tube equipment. This is one of the elements
of the "aural exciter" effects and compressor "enhancer" features that are
supposed to add "sheen" or "air" to the sound without making it "brittle"
or "harsh". (the multitude of "" in this description should indicate just
how subjective these qualities are).
---snip---
Gary, I'll look at my settings, or snap a photo of my RE-20 later this evening.
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Dizzy, dizzy, dizzy, dizzy
Thanks guys.
Here's everything I (the electronic simpleton) can tell you- I'm running my Nashville and Tele through the Boss DD-3 set here:
Vince Gordon's DD-3 Settings (http://www.the-jime.dk/show_image.php?id=Boss_DD-3_settings.jpg&name=Boss%20DD-3%)
I have found this is the best echo-billy sound so far then into a Fender HotRod Deluxe. Since I don't know anyone else that is playing 'billy music within 30 miles everything I try is by experiment or on-line so many thanks for your help.
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Nashville, as in Gretsch 6122-1962?
just hang a 0.047uF capacitor on it
Took the words right out of my mouth! :)
Anyone tried the newer Echoplex units? I'm getting echo unit envy.
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Gary, here is a follup that I thought I posted earlier - apparently Ken does not think you are dizzy enough. Also a pic of my RE-20 settings.
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The Jime photo tells me this:
Delay time looks perfect, about 1/2 way between 50 to 200 ms -> 125ms.
FBACK setting will give more than one slapback but it's low enough that I
would guess slapbacks beyond the first fade out pretty quickly. Probably
borders on being vaguely spring-reverby sounding?
The EFX Level setting is a bit puzzling. On my RV-3, the BALANCE control
goes from just direct signal (dry) to just effect (wet). So to get equal
amounts of dry and echo, you would set it in the middle. Since I use it in
the aux loop, I want just effects, since I already have the dry signal on
the mains, so I go fully CW and use my effects send on individual mixer
channels to control the level differntly for each signal. On the DD-3 I
can't tell if the EFX level brings the delayed signal up and down while
preserving the dry signal (mix vs balance if you will), or if it is acting
as a balance as on the RV-3. If the latter is the case, it seems like it
would be excessive. If the former is the case, it still seems like that
would be a pretty high level of effects, but I would want to listen to some
of his samples (assuming they use these settings) to see how it all sits in
the mix before criticising.
Also want to point out that our RV-3 is being applied just to the vocals
and sax. Slack's guitar uses his RE-20 with its own settings settings (and
so I add no effects at the mixer, effects send = off). His slapback
includes multiple echos (equivalent to the DD-3 FBACK setting to be above
the CCW setting). (John, are you changing your echo settings during the
session? Or leaving it at one all-purpose setting?)
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Ken, I leave it at one all purpose setting. I have a hard enough time remembering how the song goes.
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Finally saved up enough money (i.e. spent less than usual on toys for enough time for the spouse to wonder if I'd changed my ways) and shelled for an echo/delay: http://www.tcelectronic.com/NovaDelay.asp
Impressive piece of kit, feels more like an audio channel than a stompbox, it will seldom get near the floor. Finally, a digital delay that's 24 bit. It's a bit compressed sounding so far but I only just started fiddling with it and it has some control over dynamics. It passed the 'Mystery Train slapback picking' test with flying colors, got a real bark out of the Gretsch, heehee!
I'm having a lot of fun dialing in weird sounds, probably will end up with 4 or 5 retro-sounding presets. We're doing detours down the rockabilly route (not exclusively but everyone in the band loves rockabilly and retro generally) for a while. Crudup and Rosetta Tharpe too.
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Fancy schmancy! No better sign of going off the dark, deep end than a digital delay pedal. :P
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You would not believe it. I am following in your footsteps, oh Great One...
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I understand our drummer is putting together some more "Slack's Edge" distortion pedals -- I'll put in the good word for you. :P
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Please do send me one of those units. So far I'm pretty much in love with the tc electronic pedal thang, sounds llike an ultra-adjustable echoplex to me, best of both worlds. Good passthru too, you can hit one switch and switch the thing totally 'off' without pulling cables. The shipped presets are excellent.
CDs bought in the last week:
Wanda Jackson, several, old and new
Carl Perkins, Carl Rocks, Bear Family
Ronnie Hawkins, Ronnie Rocks, Bear Family
Hillbilly Boogie, Proper Records 4 cd box set
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Hehe, you are hooked.
Which Hillbilly Boogie? Sony? or the Proper set?
Lemme know how the Ronnie Hawkins is - I don't have that one.
I'll ask him about the units -- I know he had printed circuit boards printed and was making a few (the keyboard player caught him making them in his shop - so I don't have the story yet)
I think you need to go to Wanda Jackson Roots of Rock workshop in Port Townsend with me - I may need some company my age! :P
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slack & rivers,
how's the echo boxes working for ya?
i think the two of you would enjoy (if ya don't already listen to them) moon mullican - 'moonshine jamboree' on ace, & curtis gordon - 'play the music louder' on bear family. two discs i've gotten within the last month, or so. great stuff!
chris
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Thanks unez, I'll check him out!
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I have just two words to add:
Sleepy LaBeef
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I have just two words to add:
Sleepy LaBeef
Ho! you are right about Sleepy LaBeef, Bill. Heard him play last October and he just tore the place up with some kind of swamp boogie... and he also did a great job on Clarence "Frogman" Henry's "Ain't Got No Home". Thanks for the reminder -- must pick something up!