Topic: Quills Options?

[Blue in VT]

So After digging around on the TAG about quills I started to get disheartened about how difficult it seems to get the right supplies to make a set of quills for myself to mess around with...As I have never played an instrument like this I don't want to invest a huge amount of time and/or money into something that I may not enjoy....but as I was cruising around on the web I came across this website: http://www.panflutejedi.com/jean-paul-tutorial.html

which describes how to make pan-flutes from cane, bamboo, stainless steel, and PVC...has anyone ever heard Quills made from PVC?  is the tone anything like the actual cane version?  would it be good enough to mess around with?

Thanks for your input

Blue

[Edited Title - Wax}

[Richard]

It could be a first!

What's TAG ?

[Blue in VT]

The TAGs are the system that allow us to search this site based on subject....For instance I TAGGED this thread to show up with the other Quills tags....which should show up right below this post....if you click on it it will take you to all the threads that have info on quills...very handy!

Blue

[Richard]

Whoops... how silly can I get  it's because it was in capitals I thought it was some cunning form of abbreviation!

[TX_Songster]

Hi Blue,
A friend of a friend makes didgeridoos out of PVC.  Apparently the tone is pretty much the same.  Now that's a long ways off from a set of quills, but I thought I'd share it.

I'm curious what your inspiration for this is, Henry Thomas?

[waxwing]

Small correction, Blue. Tags are not really a search function. They show you the list of topics to which either the original poster or a Moderator have attached a tag. There may be topics with info about quills that do not have a "quills" tag and you could find these by using the Search function, which is separate from the Tag list. The tags insure that you will find info on the subject, the search function merely finds the word, regardless as to whether there is any valuable info.

Good time for a reminder, tho. All Topic starters should make an effort to add tags to their first posts, if appropriate, adding value for all. To insure good tags, you can go to the tag list, accessible by selecting the Tag button at the top of every Forum page, and copy and paste the appropriate tags, thereby ensuring correct spelling and minimizing duplication due to slight variances in choice of names etc.. Moderators regularly spend time going through the list and cleaning these things up, but any effort on the part of our members is greatly appreciated.

As to the quills, I recently was given what I assume is a "tourist edition" of the Peruvian pipes. It is a 15 note diatonic scale and the tone doesn't seem all that bad to me, altho' I don't have KC's home-made set here to compare. I can easily make an eight pipe pentatonic set from them and any minor tuning necessary should be simple with a sanding block.

Having watched the video of that guy making his own pipes, I'm not sure I understand the logic of filling the pores of the cane with wax, a particularly unresonant substance. These pipes do not appear to have been waxed.

If you are dead set on making your own from scratch, an admirable goal, working with PVC may be a viable option. (especially if you play them with an Ovation -G-) But if you just want to get playing something quickly, I think picking up a diatonic set from Lark in the Morning or whoever sells the "tourist edition", and modifying to pentatonic, will get you playing the music a lot faster. If you feel at that point that the tone is inadequate, then you can experiment with materials to your hearts content. But I'd make sure I was really gonna put in the time and practice to learn to play them before I went to too much trouble.

Wax

[waxwing]

Wow! Yeah, Lark in the Morning.

They seem to have options:

http://larkinthemorning.com/search.asp?t=ss&sb=0&ss=pan+pipes&x=0&y=0

The ones I have are similar to the Bolivian set at the top, but, as I said, only 15 pipes. Probably the shorter, higher end of the set. Mine don't seem any larger than I remember KC's being and I think they are in the key of G.

I don't know whether the 6 pipe pentatonic set has enough notes to cover Henry Thomas? Oh, actually, using the "quills" tag to get to Johnm's post on Henry Thomas(-G-), I see that he stayed within the 6 note I,II,III,V,VI,I framework, so very likely these would work. An email to LitM confirming the scale and key might be in order. But you seem to have several options here.

Cool, that means I could build two 6 note sets, in different keys, form the set I have. Just a little retuning here and there.

Wax

[Blue in VT]

Wax,

Thanks for the clarification on the Tags and the great links for Pipes...that certainly seems to be the easiest route to follow and I think I'll give them a try.  Yeah I just discovered Henry Thomas and am really enjoying the contrasting guitar and pipes sound.

Cheers,

Blue

[dj]

I'd be interested in hearing the experience of anyone who tries playing Henry Thomas songs on one of these Peruvian sets.

[uncle bud]

Before picking up that pentatonic set, I'd wait and see if we can get KC to chime in. They look suspiciously like the first set he had, which were not great.

[waxwing]

Or, go to the source. Bolivia:

http://www.bolivianstuff.com/index.php?manufacturers_id=7

I got out the set I have and there was a barely legible logo for "Andres Mamani". Ba da bing! Bolivia.

Obviously a professional instrument maker. Good info about the tunings and sizes so you can speculate as to the size of the pipes. Some of the smaller, less expensive ones look pretty similar to what I have. A 19 pipe model would give enough pipes for three 6 pipe pentatonic sets in various keys, after tuning them by sanding off the lengths a touch. One extra pipe in case you screw up.-G-

Wax

[uncle bud]

One of the sets on that page has "adjustable frequency", accomplished by moving rubber plugs.

Anyway, just to point out the pentatonic set I referred to were the real cheapies, not the ones Wax mentioned.

So how're you gonna integrate them into your jug rack, Wax? 

[waxwing]

[Edit to add] Hmm? I hadn't thought of that. Jug band quills? I was just thinking of it on a harp rack, doing a Henry Thomas song or two to add a little variety to my solo sets.

After looking around the site a bit, there seems to be another professional maker, Acha, as well. Here's  the listing of all the Zampo?a (siku) they carry:

http://www.bolivianstuff.com/index.php?cPath=43_70

Looking more closely, mine looks like one of the small sets that come with cd instructions, etc. and are definitely the "tourist grade", but still seem to have decent tone, comparing to my memory of KC's playing last summer. I'm sure they could be hotrodded a bit with some sand paper on a dowel to smooth the inside walls a bit

This inexpensive Chuli Zampo?a (siku) looks interesting:

http://www.bolivianstuff.com/product_info.php?cPath=43_70&products_id=224

Partly because of how short the high end is. I recall KC's short pipes being in the inch and a half range, like these look to be, and as the ones on my set are. Another interesting thing is they are made with your choice of either thick-walled or thin-walled bamboo.

Your right, UB, it would be good to hear from KC on this, to find out what his opinions about these various choices are. He'll probably get a kick outa this site, too, if he hasn't found it yet. You got an email address for him?

I'm gonna have to get to work and see what I can do with this set I have. Thanks for the inspiration, Blue.

Wax

[uncle bud]

I sent KC a PM. Hopefully he'll pipe up soon. (sorry...)

[Blue in VT]

I sent KC a PM. Hopefully he'll pipe up soon. (sorry...)

UUUGGHHH...that was bad Bud....

Wax...thanks for all the resources to follow up on....I've got some researching to do...Hopefully KC will show up with his input before I move forward.

Cheers,

Blue

[waxwing]

 I was thinking of changing the title of this topic, maybe to "Quill Options". I'm worried that someone checking the 'quills' tag may dismiss a thread titled "Non-Cane Quills" and miss the discovery of this resource. Any thoughts?

Wax

[Blue in VT]

I have no objection to that Wax...

the idea of PVC ones still interests me but why bother if you can get at least a basic set for $15-30?

Cheers,

Blue

[waxwing]

Cool. Done.

Let's hope KC shows up with some sagacity.-G-

Wax

[onewent]

Maybe I'm late to the party and this was posted in other threads on quills, or maybe this is KC?   ..Tom

http://www.sohl.com/Quills/Quills.htm

[waxwing]

I realized I may have posted some misinformation above. In reading Johnm's informative post about Henry Thomas (I added a Tag to HT), in which he described the pentatonic scale as the I,II,III,V,VI,I notes of the diatonic scale, I thought he was referring to HT's melodies and I posted above that a simple 6 pipe set would suffice. Reading further in Johnm's post I discovered that HT used 8 tones, V,VI,I,II,III,V,VI,I in his melodies. Sorry for the confusion.

The small 15 pipe set I have is, or was, a G diatonic set and HT's melodies fell easily within it's range. So I was able to dismantle it and reconstruct an 8 pipe pentatonic set using the string and splints from the original set.

Using Transcribe to lower HT by a semitone, from G# down to G, I am now happily playing along with his records.

I've even fashioned a rack for the quills, basically some mechanic's wire and a piece of wood approximately the size of a harmonica, which then fits into a standard harmonica rack. The wire allows me to angle the quills as necessary. It's a hell of a lot harder to play on a rack then in your hands, let me tell you.

I've started working on the guitar arrangement to HT's Red River Blues but haven't come close to putting the guitar and quills together. Give me about a month and maybe I'll have something for the Back Porch.

Wax

[onewent]

Don't know if this will advance the knowledge base for quills, but you can look at a set being played here:



After watching a variety of Dom Flemon youtube videos, I must say that I really enjoy the spirit he brings to the stage.  Flemons plays the guitar, banjo, pipes and bones, and a jug, too.  Very infectious stage presence. 

BTW, has anyone purchased from the bolivianstuff.com site?  Curious about the quality/tone of the pipes, and the quality of the vendor..thanks..

Regards, Tom

[waxwing]

Yeah, Tom, it was seein' that vid that made me think, "Hey, I can do that!"-G- No better instrument to improvise on than one in a pentatonic scale, eh?

Doesn't he have another HT song with quills up? Thought I saw it posted somewhere but I couldn't find it, just a slew of other versions of Fishin'.

'Nuther reason for you to make it out to PT this year, eh?

I didn't order them from the site, so I can't speak to that, but when I actually get the air goin' in the right direction these sound pretty good, I think, comparable to the sound KC was getting, not that I'm a zampo?a expert. And I would imagine these are low end compared to the others on that site. I think the Chuli Zampo?a (siku) I linked to on the first page of this thread, at $14, would be a pretty safe bet. You could definitely make an 8 pipe pentatonic set from it.

It definitely takes practice to get a good sound, tho', these things don't just play themselves.-G-

Wax

[waxwing]

Here you go, hombre playing Zampo?a y Charango. I don't mean to take anything away from Henry Thomas, but it sure looks like another degree of difficulty to play a chromatic scaled set of pipes. This guys hot!



Tom, as I recall, when I Googled "Andres Mamani" I found a discussion on some forum regarding the pipes. I don't remember if it was about the quality or not.

Wax

[Mike Brosnan]

Doesn't he have another HT song with quills up? Thought I saw it posted somewhere but I couldn't find it, just a slew of other versions of Fishin'.

 
not HT but...

[waxwing]

Thought I'd let everyone know that I received a set of the Chuli Zampo?a (siku) that I had linked above:

http://www.bolivianstuff.com/product_info.php?cPath=43_70&products_id=224

I purchased the 21 pipe set made from the thicker alto beni bamboo at $15.46 and shipped via certified airmail for $13.95, totaling $29.41.

The pipes arrived today and the quality is tremendous. Each pipe is perfectly straight and immaculate. Both ends are nicely rounded, particularly at the open end. Tuning sounds great throughout. Some of the pipes are slightly ovoid in cross section but this seems natural and doesn't seem to effect tone, which, to the best of my ability, seems good so far. Even the wrapping string seems higher quality than the pic, coming in a satiny deep blue, probably nylon as it seems very strong. There is a wide wrap holding the longer 8 pipes where they extend beyond the rest.

It comes in a nice multicolored woven and padded case, which, if you dismantle the set, you could probably put your Smith and Wesson .38 in for safe keeping.

Having experimented with playing the 8 pipe pentatonic quills on a rack I found that it is far more difficult than playing them in your hands, where you can move the pipes under your mouth and not have to move your head. On the rack, you have to move your head from side to side and you really have to sort of reach out to get the notes at either end, making it much harder to get a good embrochure, and is a bit of a strain on the neck, at least my stiff old neck. So I'm going to steam bend some thin veneer strips and laminate them to make a curved set. A little modification to my harmonica rack prototype and I should be all set. This will allow playing the pipes with only a natural relaxed rotation of the neck and no reaching.

I'll let you all know how it works out.

Wax

[jugblowr]

I got in touch with Carolina Chocolate Drops' Dom Flemons and he gave me Edmond Badoux's phone number.  He can make you a set of quills in whatever key you like.  I think I paid about $35 plus shipping.  They take a lot of wind to operate, and I'm still trying to figure out how to work them without hyperventilating. 

At any rate, here's Edmond Badoux's phone #: 1-707-571-1377.  I called him and told him what I wanted, and had them on my doorstep in about 10 days.  I've about got a suitable rack situation worked out for them.  Mine are tuned DEGABDEGA for playing in G.  Dom said he has a couple sets, including one tuned to A in the same fashion.

http://www.rootstone.net/

[sw0mgt]

I'm a new street-musician and I'm realizing how difficult and exhausting it is to entertain random people in shopping centers, universities, etc.  (I go out there because I feel so connected to it after reading stories about Willie McTell and Willie Johnson).  Anyway, I love Henry Thomas' style of strumming chords on his guitar and accompanying himself with pan flute melodies at the same time.  My question is how can I emulate this?  I've seen "neck braces"/supports for the harmonica, so one can play guitar and wail on the harp, but so far I have not seen a pan flute (quills) designed for this purpose.  Do I need to go to Peru?  Build one myself?  Have somebody build one for me?  Or is this invention out there somewhere?

[sw0mgt]

Here's an example I found:


But the quality is so bad I can't tell how he constructed it

[Stuart]

http://weeniecampbell.com/yabbse/index.php?amp;Itemid=128&topic=5588.0

[uncle bud]

Hi sw0mgt. I merged your posts with the existing topic on quills. Hopefully you find some answers in this thread, but ask away if you have more questions.

[uncle bud]

Quills lesson from Dom Flemons:

[sustaireblues]

That is beautiful!
Makes me want to give it a try.