Topic: Pre-War Blues Ballads?

[blah148]

I've always thought that pre-war blues ballads are some of the most beautiful songs around, yet they're kind of scarce.

Some songs that come to mind:

Lonesome Road Blues - Sam Collins
Devil Got My Woman - Skip James
Mother's Blues - Lead Belly
Jim Lee - Charlie Patton

Are there others that you particularly like?

[Rivers]

How would you define ballad in this context?

[blah148]

Nostalgic, etc.
For instance, Love in Vain.

[Rivers]

Well if nostalgia is the single emotion in play, off the top of my head I would propose Geeshie Wiley's Last Kind Words, No More Cane on The Brazos on Deep River Of Song, Texas Field Recordings, Brother Can You Spare A Dime, and Jim Canaan's by Robert Wilkins.

All are nostalgic for good, bad and neutral times lived thoroughly in the past. Good topic actually.

[Johnm]

Hi all,
I always thought of blues ballads as songs that tell a story, like "Frankie", "Stackerlee", Mance Lipscomb's "Freddie", "Delia", et al.  Not a lot of them, unfortunately.
All best,
Johnm

[Lyle Lofgren]

Technically, a ballad is a song that tells a story. The term has been misused so often in pop music that it can mean almost anything. It's a good idea to include a definition when you use a term like this that's been blenderized.

Lyle

[Rivers]

Right, which was why I thought we should agree on a definition up front, given that different languages do not always translate conceptual ideas 1-1. Sorry, ex-English as a second language teacher here.

'Nostalgia in CB', though, strikes me as an interesting topic in its own right. Perhaps we should re-title the thread?

[sofingraw]

If we are defining ballads as songs that tell a story, I like very much the category of murder ballads. My list of favorites, and the artist who's version I like best includes:

Stakolee - previously mentioned
Louis Collins - Mississippi John Hurt
Freddie - previously mentioned, Mance Lipscomb
Ella Speed - Mance
John Hardy - Lead Belly
Little Sadie - Doc Watson

And though, not murders per se..

John Henry/Spike Driver - surely he was worked to death! - MJH
Ballad of Casey Jones - train accident! MJH
God Moves on the Water - Mance

Are there any others I should be on the look out for?

[uncle bud]

There are some more obscure ones, some have been discussed here previously. Batson by Stavin' Chain is a good 'un. Alabama Red done by Sydney Stripling is good, and uses a similar refrain to Furry Lewis's version of Stack 'o Lee, among others. Rabbit Brown's Mystery of the Dunbar Child and Sinking of the Titanic.

The use of the term ballad in the context of this forum really needs to stick to it's original meaning of a story song (as others have explained above). This is very different from a jazz ballad or pop ballad. Blues ballad and jazz ballad have no relation to each other.

[sofingraw]

Thanks uncle bud! I'll be sure to try and run those down!

[banjochris]

Leadbelly's version of "Duncan and Brady" is a good one, too.

[uncle bud]

Yeah, I really like Leadbelly's Duncan and Brady. And his version "Stewball" is another ballad to add to the list. This would make a good weeniepedia page.

[colm kill paul]

Can a ballad be a first person account?

I've been considering if Monday Mornin Blues by MJH is a ballad and I now feel that it isn't. I was trying to think why and I thought perhaps it's because the story is told in the first person. Would you agree that a norm for a ballad is to tell it from the third person perspective.

Colm

[Johnm]

Hi Colm,
You bring up an interesting point.  I agree that "Monday Morning Blues" is not a ballad, though it has some narrative flow.  It also has verses that are more standard blues verses.  Of the songs that have been suggested thus far for the category of "story song", only "Little Sadie" is told by a first person narrator.  I do think ballads are most often sung in the third person, and there's quite often an element of reportage in them. 
All best,
Johnm
Edited to add:  Since this thread doesn't pertain to any specific recording, I'm moving it to the Main Forum.

[uncle bud]

Betty and Dupree is another, done by Pink Anderson, Buddy Moss, Willie Walker, Georgia White, John Jackson and numerous others, I'm sure.