Topic: Rev. Davis proposes to give Mrs. Cotten some guitar lessons.

[uncle bud]

Have to agree with O'Muck, this just seems like Rev. Davis showing off for a woman. I think too much is being read into it. And 1965 wasn't exactly the apex of achievement in women's rights and changing men's attitudes and behavior either. This kind of chauvinism and patronizing attitude would hardly be limited to Rev. Davis's culture. And it's not like it's very hard to find guys who behave like this today -- any woman I'm sure could provide us with more examples than we'd care for.

Not that this behavior has to be directed solely at women as part of a come-on either. I think we've all had experiences with someone who has tried to impress us as the great wise man.

As for audiences being impressed by "guitar playing alone", nice try, Wax. We do have to get you an RGD mix tape you won't be able to resist. We're gonna cure you of your lowdown ways.

I too did not notice the financial connection, aside from the bit at the end where they both talk about getting $5 for guitar lessons.

[eagle rockin daddy]

Dunno if this is correct, but Peter, Paul and Mary recorded, 'If I had my way' or Sampson and Delilah in '62, so by 1965, I would guess Rev. Davis was doing pretty well, and perhaps was feeling a bit ok about his circumstances.  From what I've heard of him, I would agree with the idea that he was trying to impress Ms. Cotten.  I bet he is jealous of the fact that Libba, as well as a few other of his students have signature model guitars and he doesn't though.....

(even though Libba's is just mahogany)


Mike

[outfidel]

In this Rev Gary Davis interview conducted by Stefan Grossman, the Rev shows his disregard for traditional fingerpickers:

Q: Did your grandparents play instruments?

A: I didn?t know anything about my grandfather on my mother?s side. All I knew was them to play the harp. I had an Uncle who played guitar.

Q: Did he play well?

A: Long about them days what they called playing well wasn?t what I could call playing well today.

My guess is that he held a similar opinion for the playing of Elizabeth Cotten (whose "just mahogany" sig model is very nice, mr eagle )

[Mr.OMuck]

I bet he is jealous of the fact that Libba, as well as a few other of his students have signature model guitars and he doesn't though.....

(even though Libba's is just mahogany)

He did have a signature model. It is called the Gibson J200 and nobody interested in this music ever bought one for any other reason other than that he played one.

[Johnm]

Hi all,
It seems to me that Rev. Gary Davis' stature is big enough to withstand criticism of his occasional peevish egocentricity or lechery without apologies or special pleading on his behalf.  At the same time, it seems like we could extend the kind of acceptance of that behavior in him that we must hope others extend us in our less admirable moments. 
In fact, virtually every student of Rev. Davis that I have ever met or talked to, including Mr. O'Muck, Ernie Hawkins, Stefan Grossman and Woody Mann, have many tales to tell of Rev. Davis' kindness and generosity, as well as perceptive advice (not always on musical subjects).  Unfortunately, stories of kindness, generosity, and perceptive advice are not particularly sexy, and tend to be re-told in one-on-one situations rather than to a mass audience on the internet.
There is a kind of puny delectation that attaches to anecdotes of great personalities behaving in an all-too-human fashion--there's a certain perverse pleasure in seeing giants cut themselves down to size.  Even taken on his own terms, I don't believe Gary Davis would ever contend that he was not a sinner. . .it's just that his faith saved him.  Whether we believe this or not is not the point--he believed it.  The subject of his snide comments comes up over and over again.  Can we agree to get over it, once and for all?  He was human and not always admirable or likeable.
all best,
Johnm   

[dave stott]

A little hero bashing every now and then is probably a good thing.

Epecially amongst friends and devotee's

: -)

Dave

[NevadaPic]

Hi all,
It seems to me that Rev. Gary Davis' stature is big enough to withstand criticism of his occasional peevish egocentricity or lechery without apologies or special pleading on his behalf.  At the same time, it seems like we could extend the kind of acceptance of that behavior in him that we must hope others extend us in our less admirable moments. 
In fact, virtually every student of Rev. Davis that I have ever met or talked to, including Mr. O'Muck, Ernie Hawkins, Stefan Grossman and Woody Mann, have many tales to tell of Rev. Davis' kindness and generosity, as well as perceptive advice (not always on musical subjects).  Unfortunately, stories of kindness, generosity, and perceptive advice are not particularly sexy, and tend to be re-told in one-on-one situations rather than to a mass audience on the internet.
There is a kind of puny delectation that attaches to anecdotes of great personalities behaving in an all-too-human fashion--there's a certain perverse pleasure in seeing giants cut themselves down to size.  Even taken on his own terms, I don't believe Gary Davis would ever contend that he was not a sinner. . .it's just that his faith saved him.  Whether we believe this or not is not the point--he believed it.  The subject of his snide comments comes up over and over again.  Can we agree to get over it, once and for all?  He was human and not always admirable or likeable.
all best,
Johnm   

Indeed.  Well put...

[dj]

The subject of his snide comments comes up over and over again.  Can we agree to get over it, once and for all?  He was human and not always admirable or likeable.

The only difference between "famous" people like Rev. Davis and Prince Charles and us mere mortals is that we don't have someone writing down, remembering, and disseminating every stupid thing we've ever said or done.  Which is why I never want to be famous - I say and do a lot of stupid things. 

Though thinking about it now, I wonder if the reason we humans are so drawn to stories of the "greats" being stupid is a bit of self defense.  Thinking about how stupid we were being boastful and hitting on some woman and then saying "Hey, maybe I'm not a complete idiot, Rev. Gary Davis was a great man and he did it too."