Topic: Frank Hutchison live recordings question

[TenBrook]

Hi all,
I was delving into the Doxy Collection albums on Amazon (Doxy being a slightly less than legit label out of Italy (I think) where apparently the copyright laws are more lax. They use this fact to basically bootleg LPs of jazz/blues/old time. The dubiousness of their releases is a whole 'nother thread but I thought I'd lay that all out.) and I stumbled on the Frank Hutchison 'collection' which touts 3 recordings that were apparently recorded "Live in St. Louis".

I was surprised I'd never heard of Frank recording a live set (or doing non-commercial recordings) and wanted to see if anyone knows anything more about what led to the recording/who recorded him/etc. Frank passed away in 1945, according to wikipedia, so it's pretty amazing that there's a non-commercial recording of him that isn't associated with a LOC field recording session (unless that's indeed where the recordings come from, again I don't know any details.)

There are 3 songs listed as being recorded Live: 'Worried Blues', 'Stackalee' and 'Train that Carried My Girl From Town'.

Here's a link to 'Stackalee':


If interested the digital-only 'album' can be purchased for a mere $3.99 from Amazon. Some of the songs ripped from 78s are pretty low quality and on some of the other sets (Henry Whitter at least) they seem to adjust the speed mid song and restart some songs, so buyer beware.

[eric]

The version that you linked to sounds identical to the 78 version to me.

[Stuart]

Gloria Raheja has done a lot of research on Frank Hutchison. You might ask her:

https://apps.cla.umn.edu/directory/profiles/raheja

[TenBrook]

Thanks Stuart. I will try reaching out to Gloria.

And Eric, you're right, that does sound suspiciously (maybe exactly) similar. It looks like Frank recorded 'Worried Blues' and 'Train...' in St. Louis for Okeh in 1927. I'm wondering if somehow whoever put together this 'collection' simply got confused and considered those "Live in St. Louis", after all, all recordings are "Live" (or at least they were before overdubbing).

Here's another of the "Live" recordings. This one sounds different from the other version of the song included in the collection. However it looks like Frank recorded it in both 1926 in New York and at the above noted St. Louis session in 1927, which maybe backs up my theory that these so-called "Live" recordings are mislabeled and are instead versions of the songs re-recorded at the St. Louis sessions.

[Kokomo O]

Every time I hear Frank Hutchison I'm blown away by his thumb, and these tunes have been no exception.

[eric]

Tony Russell's discography shows two takes of Stackalee; both recorded in New York Jan 28, 1927, and both  issued under OK 45106.  Train and Worried Blues were recorded in New York on September 28, 1926 and issued under OK 45064, and again in St. Louis on April 29, 1927 and issued under OK 45114.

I think I got that right...

[banjochris]

Tony Russell's discography shows two takes of Stackalee; both recorded in New York Jan 28, 1927, and both  issued under OK 45106.  Train and Worried Blues were recorded in New York on September 28, 1926 and issued under OK 45064, and again in St. Louis on April 29, 1927 and issued under OK 45114.

The two takes of Stackalee are not really two takes -- one is the version we're used to from the Harry Smith Anthology, and the other is an all-harmonica instrumental (Hutchison backs himself on guitar). Those were issued as two sides of one record.

The Train and Worried Blues recordings from 1927 were electric ones replacing the acoustic recordings from 1926 and are more properly alternate takes, being re-recordings of the same song.

[TenBrook]

Thanks Eric and Chris for the additional info.

I'm starting to think that the "Live in St. Louis" label was definitely an error on the part of whoever put together the Doxy collection. Based on looks and sounds they don't put a whole lot of care or attention into their digital series. As noted, since Stackalee was never recorded in St. Louis it's odd that they added the label to that song but since 'Worried Blues' and 'Train...' were both recorded a 2nd time in St. Louis that could *kind of* explain the label but obviously "Live in St. Louis" doesn't equate with "Recorded in St. Louis".

So it goes...

[waxwing]

I think what you said earlier is true, TenBrook, that every recording made to a wax master and mechanically reproduced by molds was a "Live" recording, as in, the result is exactly what the musician played live in the studio, at least as well as the microphones could render it. Even when they developed "electrical" microphones, they allowed mixing of the "live" recording, but not overdubbing. It was not until the use of tape for the recording was developed, somewhat later, that overdubbing was possible and "Live" recordings became something special. Note that they don't say they are recorded "Live, in front of an audience." I think as a marketing statement, they are correct in educating an uninformed audience that these are recorded as played live, which is quite impressive in many cases.

Wax

[frailer24]

Wax's statement about overdubbing just reminded me of a odd 1940's attempt by Sidney Bechet to overdub 7 instruments on one tune via 78's. Worth checking out, and tell me if you can hear the string bass! :-P