Topic: Now We are six....... ummm..... make that Geezers

[dj]

many of us started out as aspiring musicians and morphed into something like archeologists

You nailed it, O'Muck.  That's the story of my life.

[Mr.OMuck]

Do tell DJ. How so?

[dj]

When I was 20, all I needed was the basic melody of a song, a good portion of the words, and a major riff or two, and I was ready to go perform the song in public.  I'd just fill in whatever I was missing.  And that's the level I was hearing the music at - pretty basic and more than a bit superficial.  I gradually learned to listen more and more closely, and to pay more attention to the music and do a LOT more thinking about it.  Now I have absolutely no interest in performing in public.  My joy is really listening deeply to a song and really HEARING it.  And not just hearing it but being able to place what's going on in the song, musically and lyrically, in the context of the rest of the artist's work and in the context of the time and place and musical environment in which it was recorded.  I still don't get as deeply into a song as I'd like - there are other Weenies who put me to shame in that area - but I'm working on it.

And being a geezer (frankie, you young whippersnapper!), I've come to realize that the day before I get to the point where I can hold everything in my head and really understand this music, I'll lose my memory.     

[westside ryan]

Hope that I am not too far off topic here, but all of this talk about listening made me think... Before I started playing an instrument I listened to music differently.  I sometimes wish I could flip a switch in my brain and turn off the musician in me thus enabling me to listen to a song like I used to.  Anybody else ever feel this way?

[dj]

Anybody else ever feel this way?

No.  that's like asking if I'd like to go back to the relationship I had with books before I could read, or my relationship with food before I could cook, or my relationship(s) with women before I met my wife.  Why would you want to give up something that adds so much richness, pleasure,  and fulfillment to your life?

[nobocaster]

  I find this thread interesting.  I like to jokingly imagine being rediscovered years from now when someone hunts me down after finding an obsolete CD, and then I get flown around to folk fests and someone buys me a Martin.  Seriously though, as stated, we aren't our folk heroes, and life and culture and music keep changing and going.   

  Coming from a non-geezer here who grew up with punk rock music, a lot of you "geezers" out there are my teachers and inspiration.  When listening to old recordings, I know lots of these people were dead before I was around, and that somehow makes it seem faraway from me and this reality.  Then once in awhile I talk to someone who says "yeah I hung out with John Hurt.." or someone like that, and it connects a bit more.. if that makes sense.

  At a local summer music festival here my friends (who are bona-fide geezers) put a sign at their camp.. "Welcome to Geezer-ville..  Wherever you are, you'll end up here"

[westside ryan]

Anybody else ever feel this way?

No.  that's like asking if I'd like to go back to the relationship I had with books before I could read, or my relationship with food before I could cook, or my relationship(s) with women before I met my wife.  Why would you want to give up something that adds so much richness, pleasure,  and fulfillment to your life?

That's not quite what I mean.  I used to be able to hear a song and just enjoy as is.  Nowadays it is more like I am analyzing what is going on in the song, and breaking it down to what different instruments are doing.  For example, when I used to play a lot of bass guitar it seemed that any song that I listened to I mainly heard the bass.  This is harder to explain than I thought it would be!  I think what I am trying to say, is that at times I would just like to be able to hear a song without my brain deconstructing it like I used to before I learned to play an instrument.  Hope this make sense!

[Stuart]

"You're only young once, but you can be immature your entire life."

--Anonymous

[harriet]

"You're only young once, but you can be immature your entire life."

--Anonymous

Well, that certainly seems to be something I have effortlessly, and according to some brilliantly achieved. Sure wish I could translate that into guitar playing.

[Mr.OMuck]

That's not quite what I mean.  I used to be able to hear a song and just enjoy as is.  Nowadays it is more like I am analyzing what is going on in the song, and breaking it down to what different instruments are doing.  For example, when I used to play a lot of bass guitar it seemed that any song that I listened to I mainly heard the bass.  This is harder to explain than I thought it would be!  I think what I am trying to say, is that at times I would just like to be able to hear a song without my brain deconstructing it like I used to before I learned to play an instrument.  Hope this make sense!

I think I understand what you're saying Ryan.
After many years of teaching painting, a good deal of it focussed on understanding Cezanne's work, lecturing on Cezanne, I lost that job. The first time afterwards that I entered the Cezanne rooms at the Met and realized I DIDN'T have to articulate everything I was seeing, didn't have to talk about him and his work anymore but could just look and enjoy it for any and every and no reason again, I felt a great sense of relief of liberation almost.

[Johnm]

Hi Ryan,
I know what you mean.  In the mid-'70s I became really tired of not being able to shut off my "listening for information" faculty when listening to country blues recordings, and as a result, just stopped listening to the music for a number of years.  Some years later, I realized it was too much to give up, and returned to the music reconciled to how I'd become accustomed to hearing it.
One way in which I've been successful in listening in a less "understanding-based" approach to music is to seek out music I really don't understand and listen to it without any attempt to understand it--just let it wash over me and then derive whatever impressions or feelings seem to go along with that.  If you're able to hear stuff in the moment, without attempting to place it in some larger context, you may have a better chance of pulling this off.  The Western need to "understand" or "figure out" is a difficult habit to un-learn or shut off, though.  Reading this through, I realize it is much akin to what Mr. O'Muck talked about in his post.
All best,
Johnm

[Stuart]

Hi Ryan:

I understand what you're saying. However, I disagree with John with regard to it being some kind of "Western need." I think that it may just be a kind of learned "mental" behavior or mindset (conscious and/or subconscious) that goes along with trying to get a better understanding of what is going on musically, or guitar playing-wise, (or in art, or film--or anything). Obviously, when you focus on trying to figure out how something is played on the guitar by listening to  recordings, there is the possibility that you will listen to every recording with that particular focus--trying to figure it out. Years ago there was a PBS Nova program about Richard Feynman. He addressed this kind of thing by saying that his understanding of sub-atomic physics never diminished his appreciation of the beauty of Nature--in fact, it enhanced it.

I have to admit that I never really had this problem, even though I started playing in 1959 and have focused on trying to figure things out over the years. Maybe it's just because listening to the music came first. Of course, it's a world of individuals and we're not all the same, but I don't see that there's any conflict or contradiction at work here. If you could take music at face value and appreciate it then, why can't you do it now? And if this is some kind of learned mindset, then unlearn it and replace it with a mindset that allows you to spontaneously enjoy music while simultaneously understanding how it is played on the guitar and the music theory behind it. And you can learn how to do either the former or the latter (but not both at the same time), if that be your preference.

What begins as a deliberate, conscious and difficult effort will gradually become a natural and spontaneous way of being. 

[Johnm]

Ryan, I should add that if you are interested in figuring out how to play this music, it's important that you do develop the ability to listen for understanding of what you are hearing.  That is how you develop the ability to figure the music out on your own.  I wouldn't get too down on that way of listening until you've done it a hell of a long time and are really good at it.
All best,
Johnm

[eric]

I read a profile of a young jazz pianist named Jason Moran today, and he said something that made me think about this discussion:

The ones who have passed, when I meet them at the big gate they're going to ask me, "Did you take care of our music?"

[Stuart]

For some, sixty is still too early:

http://www.npr.org/2013/03/14/174140005/at-south-by-southwest-a-71-year-old-guitarist-makes-a-belated-debut