Topic: Miller's Breakdown

[blueshome]

how he articulates it have me scunnered at the moment.
/quote]

Lol, I've never heard the word 'scunnered" before... very expressive.

Hope things in the EU are ok, US opened its borders today.... which makes it a glorious day here on the border.

We are no longer in the EU in the UK and our country is being destroyed by our mini-Trump, Johnson.

[Johnm]

Hi all,
It's been a little while since there has been a new response to the Arthur Weston and John Lee Hooker puzzlers, so I'm going to post the answers. I'm going to do something a little different in this response--for the questions as to what playing position/tunings were used to play the songs, I'm going to post the playing positions/tunings that were suggested, without attribution, so that it can easily be seen what possibilities were suggested in the responses. Then I'll post my answer. I'm going to go into a bit more detail than usual on the Arthur Weston puzzler because I think it's a particularly interesting song in terms of making a determination of playing position/tuning. So, here goes:

For Arthur Weston's "Cryin' Won't Make Me Stay", the playing positions/tunings suggested were C position, standard tuning, D position, standard tuning, Open D tuning, Open D tuning, Spanish tuning, but played in D.

The answers:
   * Arthur Weston's playing position/tuning was, I believe, EAEGBE tuning, but tuned to sound in C#: C#-F#-C#-E-G#-C#. It's also possible that he played the song in E position, standard tuning, at C#. Before we get to the second question, here is the rationale for my identification of the playing/position.
   If you listen to what he plays underneath his singing, he slides from a V note on the fifth string to a I note, answering it with a I note followed by a slightly bent bIII note. That slide from the V up to the I note is the emblematic E blues slide from the second fret of the fifth string up to the seventh fret of the fifth string that is encountered in a host of Mississippi blues like "Pony Blues", "Stone Pony", "Depot Blues" "Lonesome Home", et al. The I note in the treble going to the slightly bent bIII note are achieved by hitting the open first string and bending the eighth fret of the second string, which is handy because you're already up the neck from doing the slide up to the seventh fret of the fifth string. Based just on that much information, C position in standard tuning and D position in standard tuning are eliminated as possibilities. Open D and cross-note (which was not suggested as a possibility) are also eliminated, because the slide on the fifth string is from a fretted note to a fretted note and in both those tunings the V note on the fifth string is the open string. So what we're left with as playing position possibilities are E position standard tuning and EAEGBE tuning, both of which make the fretted V note available at the second fret of the fifth string. I opt for EAEGBE tuning because Arthur Weston never plays a note on the fourth string except a I note, which leads me to believe it is an open octave above the open sixth string which he never has to fret, making it possible to free-hand things more in the fretting hand. I should say that Spanish tuning played in D position would also make a fretted slide available on the fifth string from the second to the seventh fret, going from V to I, but will be eliminated as a possibility on the basis of what Arthur Weston played in the treble in his signature lick.

For most of his signature licks in the front end of his verses, Arthur Weston starts on the + of beat four of the second measure of his form, hitting the I note there and bouncing up an octave on the downbeat of the third measure. He answers that octave jump with the open first string on the + of beat one going to the second fret of the second string on beat 2. On the + of beat two he hits the IV note on the open fifth string resolving up to the V note at the second fret on beat three. On beat three in the treble he often hits the open second string simultaneous with the bass note and on the + of beat three, he repeats the open second string (a V note), going from there to the second fret of the second string (a VI note) on beat four, re-starting the signature lick on the + of beat four. His picking hand sounds very "rough and ready", and I'm reasonably certain he's doing everything with thumb an index finger, with the thumb picking everything on the sixth, fifth and fourth strings and the index finger picking the first two strings. Two things in the treble portion of his signature lick that eliminate Spanish tuning played in D as a possibility are that he hits both the V and VI notes on the second string, and were he playing in Spanish tuning in D position, the second string would be tuned to a VI note, and the V note would not be available there. Also, in the course of playing his signature lick, Arthur Weston also often brushes the open third string, which is a bIII note relative to the key in which he's playing. We're he playing Spanish tuning in D position, the third string would be tuned to a IV note, so his sound is not possible there. I"d add that the fact that he hits a IV note and a V note on the fifth string in the course of playing his signature lick eliminates Open D and cross-note as possibilities since they both voice the V note on the open fifth string.

I wanted to go into this degree of detail in making this identification because I think this is a sensational piece and I really think Arthur Weston was outstanding. Earlier in this thread, we had his version of "Stack o' Dollars", my absolute favorite version of that tune, of which there have been many terrific ones. You can hear it at: https://weeniecampbell.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=10188.msg91982#msg91982 . It was also in EAEGBE tuning, tuned low.

For John Lee Hooker's "Rabbit in a Log", the playing position/tunings suggested were Spanish (two people), Open D, Open C, and G position, standard tuning.

John Lee Hooker played "Rabbit in a Log" in Spanish tuning pitched at C, as Phil (blueshome) had it in his initial response to the puzzler and Mark C. had it as well. I was made aware of these 1949 acoustic recordings John Lee Hooker made by a student who requested a lesson on any one of about six or seven tunes, all of which John Lee played in Spanish, capoed up. They're a neat selection of tunes, too, with a lot of songster type material and religious numbers like "Ezekiel Saw the Wheel" that I never knew John Lee Hooker played.

John Lee Hooker played his instrumental interlude very much as Mark C. described it in his post. in the course of his performance, John Lee fretted only the second and third frets of the fourth string, the second, third and fourth frets of the third string, the first and third frets of the second string, and the third and fifth frets of the first string, so the piece is very minimalistic in the left hand. One neat thing about John Lee's performance is that he goes back and forth between a major pentatonic scale with a major III and a VI note and a "blues" pentatonic with a bIII and a bVII instead of the major VI note.

I really love this piece, and it provides a reminder, was such a thing necessary, that a piece doesn't have to be complex to be beautiful and musically strong. If you put your guitar in Spanish tuning and capo to the fifth fret, I would venture to guess that you'll have the piece pretty much figured out in a half hour or less.

I hope folks enjoyed these tunes and I hope those of you who participated will get in tune with the recordings and try them out. Thanks to those who participated, and I'll look for some more puzzlers.

All best,
Johnm
 

 

 
 

[Old Man Ned]

Thanks for the detailed response John. much appreciated as always.
All the Best,
Ned

[MarkC]

Thanks John. I thought Weston’s was particularly challenging.

[Johnm]

Thanks, Old Man Ned and Mark. And I agree with you, Mark, that was a tough identification on the Arthur Weston song. I meant to mention Fred McDowell's "Trouble Everywhere I Go", that Chris posted, too. It really is a lot like the Arthur Weston cut, especially in the treble, but with a couple of crucial differences:
   * In the McDowell tune, he never hits a low IV note on the fifth string, he only hits the V note, over and over, so unlike Arthur Weston, he is playing in Vestapol or cross-note tuning.
   * The way he keeps bending that bIII note at the third fret of the fourth string towards the major third wouldn't work if he wasn't bending towards a unison on the open third string, so he is playing in Vestapol. He hardly sounds the third string at all, but he gets a little bit of it in a couple of places, and it sounds like a major third rather than a minor one.
It's a great tune and performance, too, and I never heard it before. Thanks for posting it, Chris.
All best,
Johnm

[banjochris]

Thanks, Old Man Ned and Mark. And I agree with you, Mark, that was a tough identification on the Arthur Weston song. I meant to mention Fred McDowell's "Trouble Everywhere I Go", that Chris posted, too. It really is a lot like the Arthur Weston cut, especially in the treble, but with a couple of crucial differences:
   * In the McDowell tune, he never hits a low IV note on the fifth string, he only hits the V note, over and over, so unlike Arthur Weston, he is playing in Vestapol or cross-note tuning.
   * The way he keeps bending that bIII note at the third fret of the fourth string towards the major third wouldn't work if he wasn't bending towards a unison on the open third string, so he is playing in Vestapol. He hardly sounds the third string at all, but he gets a little bit of it in a couple of places, and it sounds like a major third rather than a minor one.
It's a great tune and performance, too, and I never heard it before. Thanks for posting it, Chris.

A friend of mine asked me how to play it a couple of years ago and it's been a favorite of mine ever since then!
Chris

[Johnm]

Hi all,
I've got a couple of new puzzlers for any of you who are interested. The first is another song from John Lee Hooker's 1949 acoustic recordings, "I Wonder". Here it is:



The questions on "I Wonder" are:
   * What playing position/tuning did John Lee Hooker use to play the song?
   * Where did John Lee Hooker fret the chord he plays at :51--:54 and what is the chord?

The second song is Booker White's version of "Shake 'Em On Down", from his Takoma album, "Mississippi Blues". Here it is:



The questions on "Shake "em On Down" are:
   * What playing position/tuning did Booker White use to play the song?
   * Where did Booker White fret the descending run in the bass that opens his rendition?
   * What does Booker White fret where the V chord would normally fall in the chord progression?

Please use only your ears and your guitars to arrive at your answers, and please don't post any responses before 8:00 AM your time on Monday, December 6. Thanks for your participation and I hope you enjoy the songs.

All best,
Johnm

 

[Prof Scratchy]

I confess to being stumped on both of these. I only ever saw JLH playing in E standard or Open G, so my guess is it’s one of those, although it sounds like he’s attempting to channel Big Bill in C!

Likewise with BW. I only ever saw him play in E standard, cross note or open D. So I’ll guess crossnote tuned a bit low. Don’t know about the bass run, but he played his IV chord usually by just placing his second finger on the fifth string second fret whilst holding down the first fret of the third string. Alternatively he would fret the third and second strings at the second fret to get his trademark’bounce’, which I don’t hear on this track.

[blueshome]

JLH I think C standard.

Booker, Vasterpol down a step. For the V chord I he's just holding the 2nd string 2nd fret as he brushes.

[banjochris]

Agree on C for JLH.

Booker is in E standard (I didn't check the pitch) and does that descending run on the fretted notes of an E chord, starting on the 4th string 2nd fret, then open 4th, then 5th string 2nd fret, open 5th, 6th string 3rd fret, open 6th and back up to the E hammering on to the 4th string 2nd fret.

His V chord he's playing the B note on the 5th string 2nd fret and then the C# at the 5th string 4th fret. I suspect he might be playing  0-2-0-2-0-0 and then 0-4-0-4-0-0 and just muting the other strings a LOT.
Chris

[Old Man Ned]

Agree that John Lee Hooker's "I Wonder" is out of C, standard tuning. The chord he plays at :51--:54, I'm hearing as a diminished played on the first 4 strings:
--2--
--1--
--2--
--1--

Agree with Banjochris for Booker White's version of "Shake 'Em On Down", E standard and am in the same area for the bass run. Booker White sounds, to me, to be tuned about a step and a half low. I really am struggling on the last part of the puzzler regarding the V chord.

I'm amazed I got this far with the Booker White tune. I'm still, after all these years, totally mesmerized and in awe of his playing that I expected to be completely flummoxed and not able to come up with any sort of answer.

All the best,
Ned

[Forgetful Jones]

Great song selections! I had never heard either of these before. I hadn't read the questions yet when the John Lee Hooker song was playing, but as soon as it got to the :51 mark, I knew that chord had to be part of the Puzzler!

For Hooker:
I think he's in C position, standard tuning, capo'd up a step or so.
I think the chord at :51 is an F chord with the first string left open (I should probably know the name of that chord, but I don't.)

For White:
I think he's in E position, standard tuning down more than a full step. (I assumed he'd be in crossnote, but the IV chord was clearly not barred up the neck.)
Bass run: I first hear an open 6th string right to the 4th string 2nd fret. Then maybe plays around with 4th string 2nd fret to open; 5th string 2nd fret to open; and then 6th string 3rd fret (bent) to open; finally back to the 4th string 2nd fret.
For the V chord I think he's playing the 5th string 2nd fret (the V note) and mutes the 4th string while letting some of the higher strings ring. I think at times he may bring that fretted note up to the 4th fret (2nd verse). And I even think I hear him hang on the E chord a little longer for at least one of the verses.

I've never really made an attempt to play Booker White's music. It's a little intimidating, but I may have to dabble a bit more!

As always, thank you for taking the time to put these puzzlers together. I don't always have the time to dive in and respond in time, but I try to at least go back and listen & learn when I can.

Cheers!

[MarkC]

JLH:
I agree that Hooker’s playing in standard, C position, up almost a full step, so it’s in slightly flat D. I think Mr. Jones has the interesting chord right, a major 7th. In C it would be Fmaj7, here it’s closer to Gmaj7.

I think Hooker might be playing only the top 4 strings some of the time, so the C (D) sounds a little strange since the lowest note is often the 3rd of the chord.

A very interesting side of Mr. Hooker, not a blues at all.

Here’s the Cecil Gant song he mentions:

[Johnm]

Hi all,
It's been a few days since we had any new responses to the John Lee Hooker and Booker White puzzlers, so I will post the answers:

For John Lee Hooker's "I Wonder"
   * His playing position/tuning was C position in standard tuning, which I believe every response ended up concluding. Well done!
   * The chord from :51--:54 was fretted exactly as Forgetful Jones had it, X-0-3-2-1-0, and relative to tuning/possible capo placement it is an F Major7, as MarkC designated it.

My response when I first heard this performance was much like Professor Scratchy's, in that I had never heard John Lee Hooker play in anything other than E position standard tuning and Spanish tuning. For that reason alone, this is a particularly interesting track, because it sheds some light both on John Lee Hooker's knowledge and abilities on the guitar and his musical tastes, which is to say that the relatively pared-back breadth of his customary way of expressing himself turns out to have been a choice and not a result of not knowing how to do anything else. And it shows that he found music far outside his normal range of expression appealing, too. So, in a way this performance is an indication of a "road not taken".

For Booker White's "Shake 'Em On Down":
   * His playing position was E position in standard tuning, as several of the responses had it.
   * The descending run that opens the rendition is just as banjochris had it: second fret fourth string to open fourth string, second fret fifth string to open fifth string, third fret of the sixth string to open sixth string, fourth string hammered from open to second fret and ending the run on the open sixth string.
   * In most verses, Booker White simply frets the second fret of the fifth string for his V chord, living on the open first and second strings in the treble. In a verse or two, he goes up to the fourth fret of the fifth string for the downbeat of the tenth bar, returning to the second fret for beat three of that measure. I did not hear him doing the characteristic mirrored movement from the second to the fourth fret of the third string that many players utilize in such an instance.

In terms of identifying Booker White's playing position/tuning, two factors suffice:
   * The hammer from the open fourth string to the second fret of the fourth string that concludes his signature lick run. That hammer goes from a bVII note to a I note and is essentially right under the hand in E position standard tuning. Were he playing in cross-note or Vestapol, the same hammer would lie very non-intuitively between the third and fifth frets of the fifth string. The second giveaway of E position in standard tuning is his IV chord, as Forgetful Jones noted--it has a low root in the bass which would not be available in either cross-note or Vestapol except at the fifth fret of the sixth string, and the sound of his IV chord in the treble is clearly that of an A7 in standard tuning, 0-0-2-2-2-3.

Thanks to all who participated, and I hope folks enjoyed the songs. I'll look for some more puzzlers to post soon.

All best,
Johnm

   

[Johnm]

Hi all,
It's been a long time since we've had some new puzzlers, so I thought I would post a couple for those of you who are interested. The first is from the late Mississippian, Charles Caldwell, who recorded one album for Fat possum shortly before he died. The song is "I'll Do Anything You Say", and here it is:



The questions on Charles Caldwell's "I'll Do Anything You Say" are:
   * What playing position/tuning did he use to play the song?
   * Where did he fret his signature lick that he repeats several times from :20--:30 and else where throughout the course of the song?
   * He begins each verse on what chord, and what does he fret there?

The second song is from Louisianan Herman E. Johnson, and it is his "She's A-Looking For Me". Here it is:



The questions on Herman E. Johnson's "She's A-Looking For Me" are:
   * What playing position/tuning did he use to play the song?
   * Where does he play the opening slide work, from :03--:15?

Please use only your ears and your guitars to arrive at your answers, and please don't post any answers before 8:00 AM your time on Monday, January 31. Thanks for your participation, and I hope that you enjoy the songs.
All best,
Johnm