Author Topic: Son House's Guitar Playing-Queries and Tips (Read 11863 times)

uncle bud · « **on:** April 25, 2004, 12:06:52 PM »

Trying something new here. Miller was asking about Depot Blues. I can now sit in front of my computer and just record then convert to mp3 so did a little illustrative sound file (not calling it a lesson since I'm no guitar teacher, that's for sure!).

Miller, Depot Blues is in E, and as mentioned fits into that family of tunes centered around Pony Blues, e.g., Tommy Johnson's Bye Bye Blues, Willie Brown's M&O Blues etc.

The first part is made up of E riffs at the seventh fret position. You slide up the A string to the seventh fret then hit the low E. Then the main string snapping riff starts at the 7th fret of the high E, 8th fret of the B string, and the open E. That 8th fret on the B is a bend. He does 2 phrases with those notes, then goes to 2 bits with some higher notes - 10th, 9th, 7th, 8th fret bend on Bstring, 7th on E string, 8th fret bend on Bstring, 7th on E string, low E,?8th fret bend on Bstring, 7th on E string, 9th, 10th, 9th, 7th, 8th bend on B string.

Then goes to the A chord. Hits an A bass, hammers on the 2nd fret of the B string, hits open high E, hits the 3rd fret (i.e. A7) on high E with a bit of a bend, then open E again. Repeats the phrase slightly varied.

Then goes to an E chord. Hammers on the 1st fret, G string. Does those little partials in a walk down which are just the G string at the 4th, 3rd, 2nd and 0 frets -- and in some verses and on the end tag, the E string as well at the 4th, 3rd, 2nd and 0 frets -- and hammer back to an E chord.

Then hits a B (5th string, 2nd fret) slides up to 4th fret to a C#, fretting the 4th fret on A, G, and high E strings all in a line, and rolls back and forth in these positions. Then goes back to the E chord and those partials again.

That's the basic framework anyway. There are variations and subtleties.

Mp3 played slow to illustrate is attached. Excuse the flubs, I couldn't be bothered to rerecord until all was perfect!

Paul Rishell did this in some class one year, not sure when. I think this was the tune he said he practised deliberately badly in front of Son House until Son got so frustrated he showed him how to play it.?

frankie · « **Reply #1 on:** April 25, 2004, 12:58:02 PM »

Nice job, UB! Very cool...

uncle bud · « **Reply #2 on:** April 25, 2004, 06:24:35 PM »

Thanks Frank. I figure I owe Miller for cooking and doctorly advice at PT

, and it was buried in my brain there somewhere, just had to listen to the CD to get it back. Singing over that melodic line is another story, not something I've worked on. Singing like Son House a whole nuther story!

frankie · « **Reply #3 on:** April 25, 2004, 06:37:57 PM »

I'd love to hear you sing this one. If you do Depot Blues, I'll dust off Pony Blues - we'll have a festival of blues in E.

waxwing · « **Reply #4 on:** April 25, 2004, 07:22:32 PM »

I'll do M & O Blues, an' then we better duck fast!
All for now.
John C.

Blues4u2go · « **Reply #5 on:** December 09, 2004, 02:17:33 PM »

Greetings, I posted this over at the IGS forum as well. Curious as to which board will provide an answer first:

Can anyone point me towards tab for Depot Blues? I have a good handle on Bye Bye Blues, and a fairly good grip on M&O Blues. I can hear that Depot Blues is in the same family, but I have not made the jump yet. Can anyone assist in pointing me to the lazy man's bridge?
Thanks,
Mike

uncle bud · « **Reply #6 on:** December 09, 2004, 04:06:02 PM »

Hi Blues4u2go,

Check this thread: http://weeniecampbell.com/yabbse/index.php?Itemid=47&?topic=366.0

No tab but it may help.

Welcome to WeenieCampbell!

Rivers · « **Reply #7 on:** December 09, 2004, 04:21:31 PM »

Grossman included it in one of his early tab books w/the acetate square record, Country Blues Guitar I think it was.

Blues4u2go · « **Reply #8 on:** December 10, 2004, 07:15:21 AM »

Thank you both for the link and the Grossman tip. The link instructions look like it is enough to get me there. Can't wait to try it.

I did not even realize that that was my first post here. I have lurked in the shadows for quite some time . . . This is a great forum, and the Weenie Juke Box is a great idea.

Thanks,
Mike

Blues4u2go · « **Reply #9 on:** December 10, 2004, 07:20:12 AM »

Another note regarding the link.? You mention Paul Rishell's version, which is great.? I am lucky enough to take lessons from Paul.? I go up to Boston about once every 6-8 weeks for a two hour lesson.? He's a wonderful teacher, and I could ask him about Depot Blues, but the list of things that I want him to show me is very long.? I thought I would try to get a jump start on it on my own (with help though! Ha)

Mike

uncle bud · « **Reply #10 on:** December 10, 2004, 07:37:56 AM »

Paul is a wonderful player and singer and a really great teacher. You are lucky! I think Paul and John Miller have taught me more about this music than anyone else. Ask him to do Depot Blues and you'll probably get the fun story of Paul learning to play it from Son. When Paul showed a small group of us Depot at Port Townsend, he said something like, "here it is, straight from the man himself." What I outline in the thread referenced above is pretty much straight from Paul (though I listened to the Son House recording and may have tweaked it a bit).

Slack · « **Reply #11 on:** December 10, 2004, 08:14:57 AM »

Welcome to the forum Blues4u2go!

Paul Rishell is another favorite of ours - you are really lucky to be close enough to take lessons from him. At Port Townsend, Paul often showed us the 'keys' to about 15 songs in an hour (tape recorder is a must to get the most out of thisl). He does a great a Depot Blues and a great Bye Bye blues as well (not sure where you learned your bye Bye Blues - but have Paul play it for you if you have not heard him do it).

Cheers,
slack

Blues4u2go · « **Reply #12 on:** December 11, 2004, 05:55:00 PM »

Yes slack, Paul did teach me Bye Bye Blues. I can play it well, but I can't sing over it yet. Singing is even more of a challenge than playing for me.

Paul teaches using tape only. It actually works very well. We've covered a pretty good list of songs at this point, Michigan Water Blues, One Dime Blues, Canned Heat Blues, M&O Blues, Some These Days, It'll Be Me, Untrue Blues, Trouble Blues, Boogie Woogie Dance, Illinois Blues, Devil Got My Woman, Big Road Blues, Fare Thee Well, etc etc. The list goes on quite a ways. I'll go up once every two months for a two hour lesson. Two hours is a long time to stay focused. By the end of two hours my brain typically shuts down from overload. But, nothing is written down. The whole lesson is taped, as Paul VERY patiently talks through each song segment. Besides a total lack of ego, Paul is amazingly patient.

Paul & Annie played with their band a few weeks back in the next town over, Fall River, MA. I took my 11 & 9 year old to the show (too late for my 5 year old.) It was a great show. Paul played 'Drinkin Water From a Hollow Log' solo, and I thought that was the standout song from a solid show. Intense and stark.

One last note, Paul and Annie released a new album called 'Goin' Home' after the Charlie Patton song. Wonderful album. Enough rambling I suppose. I bought a 2002 Style 1 about six weeks ago. It's the most marvelous guitar I have ever played, and I better get to playing it!

Enjoy,
Mike

Buzz · « **Reply #13 on:** December 12, 2004, 03:12:00 PM »

Say, Mike, I will chime in here too! Welcome to Weenieville.

I agree that Paul is a gem. You list a number of the tunes he turned us on to at Port Townsend. I love his version of It'll Be ME, and wish I could learn that from him. I play Annie and Paul's cd's all the time. Leave Movin' to The Country in the CD player in the car for days at a time: listening to the first 3 or 4 tunes gives me energy!
Miller

lebordo · « **Reply #14 on:** December 24, 2004, 06:47:35 PM »

Quote from: Rivers on December 09, 2004, 04:21:31 PM

Grossman included it in one of his early tab books w/the acetate square record, Country Blues Guitar I think it was.

Good thought, but it was actually Grossman's Delta Blues Guitar (the initial editions of Grossman's books didn't have the acetate records -- only the circa 1980s printings had the records).? Delta Blues Guitar has a number of E blues, including Patton's Green River Blues and Stoney Pony Blues, Willie Brown's M&O Blues, Ishman Bracey's Saturday Blues, Johnson's Bye Bye Blues and Elvie Thomas' Motherless Chile Blues.

Rivers · « **Reply #15 on:** December 28, 2004, 12:47:41 AM »

I think I have led us both astray, it does not appear to be in either of the Grossman books. Oh well. I learned the basics from a Terry Robb & John Miller Delta Blues class at Port Townsend '97(?) and figured out the rest from the LoC \ Rounder record. Great piece, interestingly if you can play it you can play Sam McGee's Railroad Blues pretty much.

cc132 · « **Reply #16 on:** February 02, 2011, 03:49:19 PM »

I've decided to finally tackle some Son House. He's one of my favorite bluesmen - "Jinx Blues" (both cuts) is one of my favorite songs.

I've found a video on Youtube of a guy playing Jinx competently, so I'm going to watch it and try to get it from there...does anyone have recommendations for where else to go? I'm generally alright with picking up songs by ear, so general Son House-esque technique would be great. His right hand is...daunting, to say the least.

LB · « **Reply #17 on:** February 04, 2011, 08:43:24 AM »

There are a couple of key songs that in my opinion really capture his style and the motions required to play them are pretty easy to understand. Once you learn the sequence of his pick, slaps and how they work into the up and down sweeps-brushes then you are basically there except for playing them a thousand times. I've even gotten to the place I can fit Son House licks into other songs and even with standard tuning. His open D licks transfer nicely to the key of E in standard. Death Letter Blues is in G, Shetland is in D. Those two will really get you on the track. I have created free and paid lessons on those because they do such a great job of nailing his style but if you ever need a nudge, advice on this feel free to ping me. Just to try to energize and motivate you... there is one guy I helped learn this. He said he'd been trying most of his life to play this stuff and he has some issues learning standard lessons, tabs. I managed in no time to get him playing Son House and the simple moves and pieces made sense to him once broken down. Anyway, great path and it will be a nice foundational style for your skillset.

Mr.OMuck · « **Reply #18 on:** February 04, 2011, 08:50:25 AM »

If you want to learn to play Son House songs, concentrate on what his face is doing.

Mr.OMuck · « **Reply #19 on:** February 04, 2011, 08:11:40 PM »

Face.

Michael Cardenas · « **Reply #20 on:** February 09, 2011, 08:00:56 AM »

Don't let them take my magic jacket

CF · « **Reply #21 on:** February 09, 2011, 10:29:00 AM »

For a non-slide Son tune, in E, one must recommend his excellent 'Depot Blues' from his LOC recordings in the early 40s. A really cool guitar piece & relatively simple to understand, maybe not so easy to execute.
If you're hoping to sing Son House stuff along to the guitar music . . . well good luck there

cc132 · « **Reply #22 on:** February 09, 2011, 03:47:53 PM »

Thanks for the responses, everyone. I'll look into the recommended songs, and practice my tormented blues-singer face in the mirror.

I'll definitely look at "Depot Blues" - can anyone recommend any other songs in standard?

dunplaying · « **Reply #23 on:** June 21, 2016, 03:08:42 AM »

I have been wrestling with Death Letter for some time and every version of the drive lick that I have seen seems to lack something. I do not have an ear but I think that Son House mutes the 6th string with his thumb at the second fret and mutes the 1st and 2nd strings with his third finger for the first stroke of a seven stroke lick. Upwards for the first then down then an upward strike while fretting the 6th string at the 3rd fret. Then I feel he hammers a partial barre lifts hammers again and finally plays the 5th fret 1st string with his slide.
I think I will get a guitar and check that.
The rhythm I hear as akin to a steam train setting off from the station.
I would dearly love to know exactly what he plays.

dunplaying · « **Reply #24 on:** June 21, 2016, 03:57:40 AM »

I knew I would get it back to front. After 6th string 3rd fret , perhaps with the thumb, open 5,4,3 strings then hammer a partial barre at 3rd then lift and then slide to 5th on 1st.

Johnm · « **Reply #25 on:** April 27, 2017, 06:25:46 AM »

Hi all,
I merged two threads, one on "Depot Blues" and one on Son House's playing in a more general sense, into a single thread on Son House's playing.
All best,
Johnm

DerZauberer · « **Reply #26 on:** July 28, 2017, 04:00:34 AM »

I'm a HUGE Son House fan - and I really enjoy the songs that seem to come "out of nowhere": Many tunes Son recorded can be tracked back to very few "stems" - e.g. Death Letter/My Black Mama/Walking Blues, that's one "family" of songs. Then his basic "Delta Blues that" you find in songs like Levee Camp Blues and many others. I still think the original "County Farm" is probably his best guitar work ever! Nothing really fancy in regards to notes played, and it's deeply rooted in the Patton heritage, but that rhythm with the clean piercing slide lines is so very hard to play.

But... then there are songs like "Pearline" or "American Defense" or "Am I Right Or Wrong" - reminiscent of other artists and songs and styles, but wildly different from the "basic" Son House style. One can only wonder how big his repertoire of these songs was.

Anyhow - the one song where I really have no clue as to what's going on is "American Defense". It sounds like it's in standard, but the waltzy rhythm etc. really throw me off. Does anyone have a clue as to the basic chords?

The only piece of advice I could find here (http://weeniecampbell.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=10274.msg88440#msg88440) is "It's in A position, mostly played out of D7 shaped chords moved up and down the neck." Can anyone light another couple of torches for me to show me the path?

chickenlegs · « **Reply #27 on:** August 07, 2017, 10:59:10 AM »

Hey DerZauberer, after reading your post ? had a quick listen to "American Defense" ? hadn't heard it for a long while and never tried to play it before. It's a great tune! Sorta pop, but with a blues feel ? in the shifting 7ths (or parallel 6ths on the 1st and 3rd strings). It seems to be pitched at Ab (if my guitar is tuned to pitch??) I approximated it by capoing at 4th fret and playing out of E position (although Son could have been tuned flat and playing out of A position) using the D7 shape at 4th, 3rd, and 2nd frets from capo, resolving to a 1st position E chord. Haven't sussed out all the details but will put it with the long list of songs I'd like to work on. I'm sure there are many here that could be of more help with the details. Hope this helps some.

Johnm · « **Reply #28 on:** August 07, 2017, 11:05:32 AM »

Hi DerZauberer,
Son House did play it out of A position in standard tuning. He's moving between A and E7 in the first part of the song, opening with parallel sixths on the first and third strings at the ninth fret down to the eighth fret, back up to the ninth fret, resolving to the sixth fret of the third string and fifth fret of the first string (out of an F shape on the top three strings at the fifth fret). After a similar phrase that goes melodically up to the tenth fret of the first string, he then does a similar move out of E7 (C shape), going from the seventh fret of the first and third strings down to the sixth fret, back up to the seventh fret, resolving down to the fourth fret of the first and third strings (E7 out of a D7 shape). Get in tune with the recording and you can figure out anything else he does on the tune by ear.
All best,
Johnm

DerZauberer · « **Reply #29 on:** August 08, 2017, 06:35:44 AM »

Great starting points for me guys - given me some homework for the next few weeks. Thank you very much!

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Author Topic: Son House's Guitar Playing-Queries and Tips (Read 11863 times)

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