Topic: 12 string guitars nut width for fingerpicking

[Ron Mack]

Hello to All,
Can you 12 string players out there tell me the width of the nut that you prefer for fingerpicking? I'm looking at a Canadian made Simon & Patrick Woodland that has a width of 1.9" at the nut. I don't know any stores in NYC that sell them, so I can't play it before buying.

Thanks,
Ron

[Stuart]

Hi Ron:

I'm not a 12 string player per se, but I played a couple of Taylor 12 string guitars last fall. They have a 1.875 nut and were quite comfortable for me to play. Simon & Patrick may just be rounding up, but even if they're not, IMHO, .025" is probably not going to make a significant difference.

[Stumblin]

Mine's a Washburn D42S12, not sure if they still make those.
Anyhoo, the nut-width appears (I just measured it) to be a straight 2 inches (fnarr fnarr).
The only obstacle to fingerpicking is the extra tension, that's what made me start using a thumbpick.

[Ron Mack]

Hi Stuart,
How are you? Thanks for your reply. I'm think you're right. the .025 probably won't make much of a difference, but every little bit helps.

Hi Stumblin,
It looks as if the Washburn D42S12 is no longer available. 2" at the nut would be ideal.
 I would like to play the 12 string with a thump pick and 2 finger picks. Thats one reason why I would like the extra space. Thanks for your help.

[Stuart]

Hi Ron:

If the concern is your picking hand / fingers and having sufficient room to be able to grab the strings with your bare fingers or get in there or have the proper angle with picks, then it's the width and string spacing at the bridge that's the focus. While some may disagree, hand and finger size make a difference re: one's needs and wants. People with large hands and fingers are not going to have the clearance that someone with smaller hands will have. Obviously, people can adjust and adapt, but generally speaking it's nice to have enough room to work--at least that's what my friends with big hands have told me.

The Taylor 12 strings were okay by me (I was playing without picks), but I don't have large hands. Taylor doesn't give bridge width and string spacing specs at their site. Perhaps an e-mail to Simon & Patrick is in order. If they tell you the specs, then you have something to go on. You can bring your machinist's / luthier's ruler or calipers with you when you play other twelve strings to see if any match up with the Simon & Patrick that you have your eye on and how they compare. "One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions," as the old saying goes.

[Parlor Picker]

If you can afford it, a Larriv?e 12-string would be worth considering.

[blueshome]

For space fingerpicking the spacing at the bridge may be more relevant.

[blueshome]

Just measured my Fraulini 12 which I play with picks very comfortably:

Nut: 49mm, 1 29/32", strings 43mm, 1 11/16"
Strings at bridge; 63mm, 2 1/2"

no problems with string tension as normally tuned around B for the best sound.

[Ron Mack]

Hi Stuart,
You've made some very good suggestions. Also, you and blueshome are right , I should be more concerned with the spacing at the bridge. Thanks

blueshome,
Thanks for those measurments. If I had the budget I wouldn't hestitate to get a Fraulini.

Hi Parlor Picker,
I'm a big fan of Larrivee guitars, but right now It's out of the budget.
For the money that I want to spend on a 12 string, and from the reviews that I've read and youtube performances that I watched, The S&P Woodland looks to be a good guitar for the money. Thanks

[jopoke]

You could look for a used 12-string Seagull, which would be in your budget.  I found an older model with a spruce top and schaller tuners for $175 on eBay.  Same width as the S&P.  It stays in tune and provides plenty of room for fingerpicking.

I have been very happy with the Seagull.   

Thanks, Joe

[Ron Mack]

Hi Joe,
I never played a Seagull 12 string but I have played a couple of 6 string models before and I like the way they sound and play. I just don't get the peghead It doesn't do anything for me. I always stayed away from the Seagull line because of the peghead. Thats why I decided to get a S&P Woodland, same Godin quality, but looks more traditional

I've been keeping an eye out for a used model on ebay which are mostly cedar tops. I'll probably just buy a new spruce top model eventually. I'm looking to spend $500-$600. Thanks

[Norfolk Slim]

Seagulls are great value for money.  Lots of good deals on them on ebay etc.

I did have one- however I sold it when I found, for similar cash, an old 70s Yamaha which just had far more mojo.  A deeper rougher sound.  Id be tempted to keep a look out for those too- mines an FG-230 but my Dad has a slightly different model which, if anything, is better.  Apparently the red labelled "Nippon Gakki" ones (mine is one) are better and more expensive.  Its certainly fingerpickable in my view.
 
2+3/8" at the bridge. 1+6/8" at the nut

[uncle bud]

Ron, I'm with you on the Seagull peghead. Always looked like someone punched the wrong numbers into the CNC machine to me. The Simon and Patricks I have played (six string only) have generally been good guitars, and a friend has an S&P dread spruce top that sounds great.

If you're in NYC, perhaps looking for a used 12 is worth the hunt though?

[jopoke]

I think the peghead design is for better tuning.  At least that's what Seagull claims.  I will say that it stays in tune better than any 12 I have had other than my Gallagher 12 string.  It's
hard to compete with a Gallagher, however.

Thanks, Joe

[Ron Mack]

Hi Norfolk Slim,

If I had the ear of yamaha company... They make great sounding guitars, even the new ones, but I can't fingerpick them to save my life. There's just not enough space. however, I will take your advice and look into the Yamaha 12's from the 70's. Thanks for the specs


Hey uncle bud,
I cracked up when I read your comment about Seagull punching in the wrong CNC numbers. I've been checking craigslist regularly for a S&P (parlor, folf model etc...) but never seen any here in NYC.  They do have a Seagull 12 string for $300. Thanks

Ron