Topic: Peg Leg Howell Lyrics

[dj]

It doesn't look like anyone ever got the last line of Papa Stobb Blues.  I'm hearing

I can tell you for sure, mama, 'bout that engineer

So, if I'm hearing it correctly, whether the penultimate line ends with flag or flood, the news must have involved something about a train along the Alabama coast.

Note that where I have "mama", Howell sings something more like "mom" or "ma", with just a slight suggestion of a second syllable.

[Johnm]

Hi dj,
Thanks for re-visiting that line.  Listening to it multiple times just now, I think the one-syllable word beginning with "m" in the first half of the line is the word "my", pronounced "mah". I don't think he sings "ma" or a shortened version of "mama" in this line because he sings the word "mama" nine times previously in the song before this line, and every time he pronounces it as a two-syllable word and enunciates it with perfect clarity.  What's more, the scansion in those earlier verses is set up for it to be said as a two-syllable word.  In this verse, he's looking for a one-syllable word in that place in the line. So something like:

  I can tell you what's sure, and my Stobbsie's the engineer

I'm pretty sure about the last two words of the line being "the engineer", and I'm also pretty sure about "Stobbsie's", as in "Papa Stobbs is the engineer".  I really think "Stobbsie's" is right.  It's the only mention in the song of the title character.  See what you think, and I welcome any additional help with this.  You can listen to "Papa Stobbs Blues" at:  https://weeniecampbell.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=437.msg12286#msg12286

All best,
Johnm






 

[dj]

Hmmm...

I could go with "I can tell you right sure my Stobb's its engineer".

Which raises the question:  Was the Mobile Flag a train?  Or an engine?

I can see some research is needed. 

[Johnm]

Hi dj,
I agree that it is "right" rather than "what" in the first half of the line, but re-listening, I think Peg Leg Howell is singing "right chere", a pronunciation of "right here" that we've encountered many times in blues lyrics..  The second half is as I had it, though, I'm fairly certain.  "Stobbs's its engineer" doesn't work because the number of syllables is wrong, and there is no hard "t" in the second half of the line.  Moreover, "its" is a full-stop word, the way it's pronounced, and there's no full-stop in the second half of that line, it flows right in, with a brief "th" sound at the front end, "the-engineer".  In lieu of "Stobbsie's", it could be "Stobbs, he's the engineer".  I think that is the line: 
   I can tell you right chere, my Stobbs, he's the engineer
All best,
Johnm

[Lyndvs]

"I can tell you where Sherman stopped his engine at"
Maybe a reference to General Sherman`s"necktie"tactics of tearing up and bending railway rails to prevent trains running.Maybe the tactic put the kybosh on Papa Stobb?.A civil war reference?.

[banjochris]

I think I lean more towards Lyndvs' hearing of that line, although I don't know what it means. Also earlier in the song, I think the bit that now says "Come on [Taglin?]" might be
Come home stagglin'
with stagglin' meaning staggering, just an odd pronunciation. I'm pretty sure I hear an "s" at the beginning and it sounds like the longer "o" of "home" to me rather than the "o" of "on." It's a puzzle.
Chris

[waxwing]

Yes, Johnm, I was going to post yesterday suggesting "I can tell you right sure, ma, Stobbs he's engineer" but got distracted.

dj, I think the Mobile Flag is another newspaper, like the Atlanta Journal, still quoting the news boy.

I'm not sure whether the final line is the singer, himself, or still quoting the news boy? Kind of a non sequitur either way. Striking that, I think it's the singer referring back to the first few stanzas, which I hadn't looked back at. I still like "ma". (and the close quote should be placed after "Flag")

Wax

 

[banjochris]

On Mobile Flag, I think folks have looked for it and there is no evidence of there ever being such a paper, but I think that that's what Howell intended it to be.
Chris

[Johnm]

I re-listened, yet again (!!!!!), and I really like the "stagglin' catch, Chris, especially if preceded by "home", which I had wrong in the original transcription.  Stagglin'--staggering, as in snigglin'--snickering.  That's good hearing!  And I think your suggestion for the last line of the song sounds the best of any I've heard yet, Lyndvs.  The sound is dead on, and if the interpretation is correct, it makes the last line a continuation of the paperboy in the next-to-last line providing news teasers.  I'll keep listening a bit more, but I think you got it--well done!  It's a bit of a reach, going back to Civil War days, but considering where Peg Leg Howell was from, it's not so implausible.
All best,
Johnm

[dj]

The Mobile Flag was not a newspaper.  And it wasn't a regularly scheduled passenger train or a noted locomotive.  But...

On September 15, 1922, the Atlanta Constitution featured an article in the sports section titled "Mobile Winner Southern Flag".  The article was about how the Mobile Bears were the champions of the Southern League and would go on to play Fort Worth, the champion of the Texas League, for the "Dixie Championship" of 1922.

For non-Americans, or non-baseball fans, the Southern League was a high minor league - triple A, we'd say today, a step below the major leagues - with teams around the southeastern U.S., and the Texas League was a similar league based in Texas.  Teams in any professional baseball league typically get a flag or pennant for winning the league championship.

I have no idea if this is what Peg Leg Howell was talking about when he recorded Papa Stobb Blues in 1927, but it's the only usage of "Mobile flag" I've found in 2 days of searching that makes any sense.  And since the Southern League had a team in Atlanta, it does make sense that a paper boy hawking the Atlanta Constitution would include the fact that it has news of the "local" league's championship.

[Johnm]

Congratulations on digging that up, dj!  Maybe what the paperboy means in the second half of the next-to-last line is that an article in the Atlanta Journal talks about the Mobile team winning the flag?

[dj]

It's certainly possible.  Unfortunately, I can't find very much from the Atlanta Journal online.  It was merged into the Constitution in the 1950s, and I guess the company emphasizes the Constitution part of it's heritage.  But the Southern League was apparently a big deal in Atlanta.  The Constitution printed the Southern League standings and results above those of the 2 major leagues, and printed the Southern League box scores ahead of those of the majors. 

[Slack]

Mobile flag = Mobile pennant has got to be it, no?

1922 Mobile Bears Clinch First Pennant

The 1922 Mobile Bears clinched their first Southeastern League pennant on Sept. 10, 1922 at Heinemann Park in New Orleans. All it took was a 3 to nothing shutout in game one of a doubleheader for the Bears to clinch the title.

The 1922 Bears had a 97-55 record with a percentage of 638. That year, Memphis finished second and New Orleans finished third.

https://www.al.com/news/mobile/2015/04/vintage_photos_of_mobiles_base.html

[dj]

Hmmm...  On September 15th 1922, the same day that Mobile's winning the flag hit the news, the headline on page 1 of the Atlanta Constitution was "As Conflagration Sweeps City Of Smyrna Warships Rescue Panic-Stricken Refugees". 

Is the first half of the last line of Papa Stobb Blues "I can tell you 'bout Smyrna" - pronounced more like "Sherma", since neither the paper boy nor Howell had probably ever heard of Smyrna?  Are we getting the full paper boy's pitch about the news on September 15 1922?  I could be all wrong about this.  But if I'm right, I can't wait to figure out what the last half of the line is talking about.

Correction: The Atlanta Journal was an evening newspaper, so Howell would have heard the paper boy announcing news of the Memphis pennant and the Smyrna fire late in the afternoon of September 14, 1922.  The news appeared in the Constitution, a morning paper, on the 15th.

[dj]

Okay, I have a reading of the last verse of Papa Stobb Blues that I'm happy with:

I whistled to the paper boy, the little boy stopped
"What kind of paper, boy, have you got?"
"I've got the Atlanta Journal, talk about the Mobile flag
I can tell you 'bout Sherma (Smyrna), 'bout dissension there

To me it makes sense - the paper boy is calling out the big sports news and the big international news of the day.  The big local news in Georgia on September 14 1922 was local and state elections for Governor, for the legislature, for school boards and local offices.  But the results of the election wouldn't have made it into the evening paper, so I wouldn't expect Howell to be singing about that.

Just a word for the curious about what was going on in Smyrna:  At the end of World War I, Turkey, which had been allied with Germany and Austria, was on the losing side.  As part of the armistice, Greek troops occupied Smyrna, and Greece hoped to annex the city and its surroundings.  On September 9, 1922, the Turks drove out the occupying Greeks.  On the 14th, fire broke out in the Greek and Armenian part of the city.  It was assumed that one or more Turks had set the fire to drive out the Greeks and Armenians, thus solidifying the Turkish hold on the city.  The fire spread out of control, and fighting broke out, with Turkish "irregulars" shooting at refugees.  British, American, French, and Italian marines were landed to try to protect European refugees, and much fighting and bloodshed occurred before the European refugees were evacuated and a large part of Smyrna was left a smoldering ruin.  Dissension, indeed!