Topic: Blind Blake's Guitar Style--Queries and Tips

[uncle bud]

I'm not sure exactly what part of Too Tight you're talking about. Probably would not make a difference but could. Generally, I think I damp with both right and left depending on the context. Left more for cutting off treble notes, I'd say, though sometimes cutting off any notes. I just tried a Blake style G chord pattern as one would have in Too Tight and observed what my right hand position was. I'm damping the bass strings with the heel of the palm, close to the outer edge and even the side of the palm. My hand is positioned pointing downward between the 4 and 5 o'clock position, I'd say, probably closer to 5. This gives me damping control in the bass and lets the treble ring.

My hand will also come up and down off the strings depending on the context again (less damping, more damping).

Just my two cents. YMMV.

Ari does bend his thumb at the joint when playing, though for what reason, if any, I don't know. Might be the angle of the nail. I agree with Tom, you could ask him on his board.

[Mr.OMuck]

I damp the bass strings with the thumb, just sort of pivot it down slightly after thump-plucking the note. Damping with the heel limits the range of hand motion a little too much for Blake I think, OK for other's music though.

[Thiago]

Hi everyone. Using the search function I've found a topic that discussed about Blake's technique of back-picking. Pretty interesting stuff, by the way. When I get more experienced in Country Blues, I plan on learning West Coast Blues (man, how many thumbs does Blake have?), so it would be good to know about any material or knowledge about this technique. To my knowledge, there are some covers of this tune on youtube; however, they don't teach, nor do they reproduce Blake's bouncing bass. Are there any videos where this technique is shown and explained? Or any exercises? Is it similar to the double-slap bass technique? I once gave it a "try": seems fine on the 6th string, but on the 5th, I can't manage to make that string sound twice without also hitting the 6th, unless I somewhat change the angle of attack. But it seems that changing the angle gives my hand an awkward position which prevents the other fingers from using the other strings.

Another question regarding Blake's West Coast Blues is about some parts of the song where the bass sounds more heavy, more complete like a piano. To my ears, he is playing two bass notes at the same time with a fast thumb brush; something like playing E on the 6th string and B on the 5th string at the same time (like a power chord I think). Am I correct or is it related to the nail-harmonics/buzzing of back-picking that I've read somewhere on this site? or maybe both?

Every bit of information will be appreciated.

Thiago

[banjochris]

I'm not sure what you mean about "back-picking" -- to me that means picking backward with the thumb, i.e. picking up toward your head with the back of your thumb, which isn't what Blake is doing, at least not in "West Coast."

I think the problem with most versions I've heard of this tune, certainly the versions on YouTube, is that many players think the "stumble" sound at the beginning of this tune all comes from the thumb rolls in the bass, but what the index (or index/middle) fingers play is just as important.

Basically, from what I've been able to decipher, Blake is rolling his thumb from 6th to 5th string or 5th to 4th while holding down a C and then an E chord. With the C chord he's fretting both the 6th and 5th strings at the third fret (G and C note respectively). As he rolls his thumb onto the second note, he plays a note in the treble at the same time as the second note, a pinch in other words. He then repeats this, so you have something like this, while holding down the C chord:

Roll 6th to 5th and pinch open 1st string
Roll 6th to 5th and pinch 2nd string 1st fret (C)
Play 1st string open (index)
Play 4th string 2nd fret (thumb -- E note of C chord and not a pinch)
Roll 5th to 4th and pinch 2nd string 1st fret

The part in the middle is the only part that isn't the roll/pinch combo. I hope this is somewhat clear, maybe I'll try to make a video of this soon but it's hard for me to slow down coherently. But if you can do the thumb roll and remember to play the melody in the treble you'll be on your way.
Chris

[Thiago]

Thanks for replying. About the back-picking, yeah, I meant picking backwards with the thumb.

I thought that this technique made the bass in West Coast sound as if a string was striken twice with the thumb, where the back-picking would provide the speed necessary to do it. There are some parts in West Coast in which the bass gets this special rythm, more like a "ba-dum ba-dum", where the "ba-dum" has a whole duration of a quarter note. Although perhaps this is achieved doing the bass rolls you said; I'll see them. I still hear as if a string was striken twice during those "ba-dums", though the sound quality does no justice. Perhaps it would be a good idea to listen to the songs where Blind Blake does use the back-picking without doubts.

Related to Blake's bassline, does he strike two bass strings at the same time to create that fuller, heavier piano bass sound I tend to hear sometimes in West Coast Blues?

Thiago

*EDIT*
After hearing it again with more detail and using Transcribe!, I now hear something different to that "double-striking of the bass string" I had mentioned before. Just like you had said, the stumble sound comes also from the other fingers. In the example you have given me Chris, in the C-chord one plays a bass note C on the 5th string and then a pinch on the 2nd string 1st fret, which is also C, but only an octave higher. So, technically speaking, yes, I've been hearing a double note, only that one is an octave higher. I hope I made myself clear, though I think I said nothing new. Thanks for opening my eyes (or ears).

[Richard]

Thanks for opening my eyes (or ears).

And mine 

[blueshome]

Take the short cut and get Ari Eisingers Blind Blake DVD. Blake's thumb was transplanted onto Ari's hand, or so it seems.

[Thiago]

Yeah, I've heard good comments about that video lesson. I'll get it as soon as I can.

[Goatboy]

Chump Man Blues

Well, I went to this forum because the subject line said "Blind Blake's thumb" and I figured maybe someone'd found his thumb somewheres. I know that Blake plumb disappeared off the face of the Earth after his last recording session in Grafton, Wisconsin way back in '32, and lots of folks like Gayle Dean Wardlow have been trying to find out what happened to him ever since. Was Blake run over by a streetcar like Gary Davis said? Frozen in a snowdrift, like Lemon Jefferson, and maybe accidentally buried in a dump somewhere along with the late-winter street trash? Or even abducted by some kind of eight-fingered aliens who'd long admired (from quite a distance, mind you) his guitar playing and didn't know that Blake was able to do that fancy picking stuff just BECAUSE he had a thumb, which those aliens didn't? (Here on planet Earth, the ape experts call it a "disposable" thumb, I think they call it.) Did those aliens think Blake had "a sportin' right hand" like Gary Davis said, or did they even know there's a difference between a right hand and a left hand? (I bet in some galaxies or solar systems or universes way beyond ours there ain't a bit of difference between right and left, or up or down, neither.) Was Blake Tampa Bound but he walked off the end of a dock on some Geechie island down there in Georgia because he couldn't see his way, being blind and all?

So you can see why I might've gotten pretty worked up over a forum post that said they'd at long last found Blake's thumb, if not the rest of his mortal remains. But then I find out that this forum has NOTHING to do with finding Blake's thumb, but instead, just discusses his damn guitar-picking, where he used his thumb to do unholy thinks that most men can't or dursn't!

Talk about overpromise and undeliver!

It's just like when I bought that DVD called "The Guitar of Blind Blake" by Woody Mann. I got all excited that someone'd finally found old Blake's main guitar and the DVD was going to show it in all its glory. But that damn DVD didn't have NOTHING to do with Blake's guitar or its fretwork or fingerboard or wood on the sides and back or nothing like that. Instead, it was just about how he PLAYED any old damn guitar, whether it was his or not!

Imagine my disappointment this time--again. No thumb a-t'all, damn yer eyes. I wish I could say "That Will Happen No More," but I bet it will happen agin.

Now I feel like a chump, man...

[Blind Arthur]

Are you the ice man?
Hear that ice man coming? He don?t mean us men no good.
The backdoor he goes through and he wrecks the neighbourhood

[eagle rockin daddy]

Goatboy,

I'll have what you are having.

Mike

[Bald Melon Jefferson]

Man... Goatboy.... got to hand it to you...and please, I mean that figuratively only...that is a mighty high bar you have set for your very first post. I fear your sophomore effort may fall short. I hope not. I will keep the bong loaded in anticipation.

 (At least on Mike Seeger's Southern Guitar Styles DVD he actually plays 26 songs on 23 different style guitars....although some of them are from the Midwest and East Coast)

Gary

[Jimmy J]

Hey Gang,

I think this is the first time I've waded in here. But, I'm surprised no one mentioned the John Jackson Homespun Lesson.

That's the first and only place I'd ever heard this practice of 'backpicking' mentioned, before. In the lesson, Roy Book Binder asks John about this, so John shows how he does it. And he is very effective with it. Roy asks him where he got that technique from, and Jackson replies he started doing it on his own. So, perhaps we should give John a bit of credit, here?

Personally, I've never really tried to apply this technique. But what I did get from Jackson's lesson is a cool way to play West Coast Blues. I really dig how Jackson goes down to the E and hits the sixth string twice with his thumb, before he goes back to alternating between 6 and 4. For me, this was the key that unlocked this tune for me. It really makes the song swing, and bounce! Also, it has a pleasing counterpoint affect on the ear, in my opinion, for it plays the low E off the high E, before you move into the E7.

There's one other comment I think would be germane to any discussion about Blake's playing. I think Blake must have held down the fifth and sixth strings with his ring finger on his left hand. (This is something I've had a bit of luck with applying. Having large hands helps, but so does playing on the shorter scale of a twelve fretter, as Blake did.) The trick, for me, is to keep the ring finger firmly planted on the fifth string, but grab just enough of the sixth string for the thumb to roll into a C chord, ta-Dum, for example. That frees up your pinky for lots of string options! I really think this was how Blake could play at such speed.

Cheers, Jimmy J

[banjochris]

There's one other comment I think would be germane to any discussion about Blake's playing. I think Blake must have held down the fifth and sixth strings with his ring finger on his left hand.

Absolutely. And welcome!
Chris

[Norfolk Slim]

Agreed about the ring finger taking two strings.  And happily you don't need big hands to do it. Just some persistence until it becomes natural.  I find the trick is to make sure the finger is jammed right up against the fret.