Topic: Trying to start sliding...

[Blue in VT]

Howdy all,

I'm in the process of just figuring out how to get started with slide guitar....so I have some questions for you

first...I have a couple of videos to get me started. 1. Stefen's Bottleneck DVD and 2. Mike Dowling's Bottleneck and beyond video. I think Stefen's will be the first one to deal with as it starts at a more basic level...Do you all have other suggestions for someone starting out? any one have experience with Brozman's DVDs from Home spun?

Okay...lets talk slides...I have two bottle necks...one I made myself and one purchased cheap...they are great but I want to try some metal ones as well...I've found a spark plug socket that I'll try but can't find any heavy copper tubing...like the one Stefen uses on the video...where should I look for some?

And guitar set up...I've purchased a old Harmony H162...thats the ladder braced spruce top model...the action is high...but the bridge is firm (its a pin style) and it seems to have good tone for a 50 dollar guitar. I've purchased a couple of heavy B strings to use as unwound thirds...

so my question here is...how high of action is good...and how much is too much? right now I would estimate that the action is around 3/16 at the 12th fret (in open D tuning)...but I haven't put the unwound third on yet which may raise things alittle. is this too high? any other suggestions for set up?

and last but not least....what finger do you all wear your slide on? pinkiy seems to be what everyone suggests but I see many folks who wear it on there ring fingers...including Mike D. and Son House....just curious...it seems to me that the ring finger is easier for someone to start out with but might not be a useful down the road as the pinky.

Anyway sorry for the long ramble...I just want to get off on the right foot with this exciting new field of country blues tunes.

Cheers,

Blue

[Stuart]

Hi Blue:

A sparkplug socket is a modified 6 point deep socket with an rubber insert, and they are not a good choice for slide, IMNSHO. There's a certain romanticism associated with them, but they usually only come in two sizes. If you want metal, go to Sears, look for a 12 point deep socket that fits your pinky/little finger. They are available in 16th inch increments. That's one option. Added: Metric sizes are another option. 

Putting it on you little finger frees up the other three for playing chords as opposed to two if you put it on you ring finger. Over the years I've seen some people play with it on their middle finger, but it wouldn't be my choice.

There's a lot of copper and brass pipe sizes and gauges manufactured, but you probably won't find them at the local hardware or at Home Depot, Lowes, etc. Most of it is for industrial or specialty apps, but you should check with the local HVAC supplier. They might have something lying around that fills the bill.

As for setup, it's the Goldilocks formula--"just right." Too low and it rattles, to high and it becomes too difficult to play with your fingers. There's a lot of experimentation and trial and error involved, but eventually you'll find what is right for you.

There are a lot of options available now that weren't around 40 years ago when I started. I think that I started with a piece of bicycle handlebar for a metal slide, but that was a different lifetime.

[uncle bud]

For types of slides, I think it's a matter of taste really. Some people like glass, some brass or copper etc. I think you need to try several different types and see what you like, what your guitar seems to like. While there is a certain romantic self-made-man quality to finding copper tubing and cutting it into a slide, don't forget that there are actual slide manufacturers out there for us lazy bums who don't want to hunt down industrial pipes, screw around with kerosene-soaked string and wine bottles etc.    I've ordered several different slides (glass, brass etc) from Elderly Instruments in the past and they're cheap enough that experimentation is feasible for even fairly modest budgets.

[RobBob]

You can use glass, brass or a socket.  The differences are in the sound and feel on your finger.  I too use my pinky for sliding so the other fingers can be used for chords and other runs.  Learn where the chords are, the scales in each tuning and keep in mind how these things relate from tuning to tuning.  There are lots of patterns you can find and use to your advantage.  As you learn tunes you will see that the old timers knew these patterns too and used them to good effect.

Most of all have fun.  There are tens of dollars to be made playing slide guitar so keep it fun.

RobBob

[waxwing]

Make sure your slide fits your finger and doesn't try to slide off, causing you to have to flex your finger to keep it tight. Having constant tension in your finger holding the slide on will definitely interfere with getting a relaxed hand to let the music flow thru. If you have a slide that you really like and it's a bit too large, get some Dr' Scholl's Moleskin at a drugstore. You can cut an appropriate sized strip and stick it to the inside of the slide to get a comfortable fit.

I think, and word has it, the Bob Brozman DVD series is very educational, especially in developing your technique. Essential, perhaps, but I'm barely a beginning slider myself.

All for now.
John C.

[Blue in VT]

Thanks for the info...

I'm trying to build up a quiver of different slide types without breaking the bank...I may have misspoken because what I have is a deep socket...not a spake plug wrench...at least it doesn't have the rubber insert...

Brass seems difficult...I may have to break down a buy one of those...I found the dremel tool to be effective at cutting wine bottles so I will try a couple more shapes and sizes of those as well.

And I will try to find that Brozman video.

Blue

[blueshome]

As with most things associated with our music there are no "right" answers, however I am happy to pass on my own opinions based on playing slide and watching others play for longer than I wish to remember.

Guitar action is best set at normal playing height for good tone and fingerpicking, you need to be able to fret comfortably at least at the low end. You just have to learn how to get a decent touch/tone. Up a gauge for the top string can help. An unwound 3rd is not necessary but if you like the sound......

Which finger, I use pinky, and I have noticed that players using the ring finger often have large hands which seems to enable them to fret successfully.

Slides - try a few and forget it until you have good control and then experiment. Very few of the good slide players playing in the Spanish position I have seen have the slide as a tight fit in the finger, the slide is locked by slightly crooking the finger. You can then try to play with this finger tip to get accurate positioning for "fretting". This may take a little getting used to and I know most beginners like to have a close-fitting slide, but I would persist if you want to develop speed and accuracy.

Most of all don't get hung up on the tools, concentrate on getting a good sound by developing a good technique. (Brozman's 1st DVD is excellent)

[Blue in VT]

Cheers to you Blues...that seems like logical advice...I think the set up on my guitar is fine for now...fretting is easy in the first 5 frets anyway.  I'm trying to track down a used version of the Brozman DVD or I maight have to wait until Xmas.

Blur

[Richard]

Young  Blueshome here, speak not with cracked slide and really says it all with

Most of all don't get hung up on the tools, concentrate on getting a good sound by developing a good technique.

I tried playing conventional slide when I started but soon realised that all the trinkets and slide toys in the world could not help me play, it was a "touch" that had to come from me. So, forget all brass, copper, glass, chalk, mud, bone et al varieties of slide and just get "something" that feels comfortable on your finger and make with the "touch". Again, I would agree with Phil that Bob B's first dvd is excellent and it was that which put me on the right (or was it wrong) track.

Finally, I still can't play slide guitar as I switched to lap when it dawned on me that a motorcycle accident aeons ago which severly knackered my left wrist was the cause on not being able to do bar chords. 

My wife says I'm "touched" but I have a feeling she means it in different way 

[uncle bud]

Very few of the good slide players playing in the Spanish position I have seen have the slide as a tight fit in the finger, the slide is locked by slightly crooking the finger. You can then try to play with this finger tip to get accurate positioning for "fretting". This may take a little getting used to and I know most beginners like to have a close-fitting slide, but I would persist if you want to develop speed and accuracy.

I think this point above is definitely worth reiterating. While I wouldn't qualify as one of the good slide players blueshome refers to, I find a tight-fitting slide is a hindrance. While you don't want to be swimming in it, a little bit of looseness helps me immeasurably with fast melodic bits, vibrato and just general comfort. The slide is never in danger of slipping off because of the playing angle.

[Stuart]

Most of all don't get hung up on the tools...

Amen to that. However, I don't think that you should ignore all of the available tools, either. Once you get comfortable playing slide, you'll find that there is "the right tool for the job." There are variations between the sounds that you get from, as well as what you can do with different slides, just like different guitars produce different sounds. Be flexible.

As Blueshome and Andrew have mentioned, a little looseness goes a long way re: fretting and vibrato. Again, it is going to be the Goldilocks formula--finding what is "just right" for you.

P.S. And be careful. I sustained some rotator cuff damage a few years ago and the vibrato has never been the same since.

[Blue in VT]

 

Message recieved...I'm content with what I have right this minute as far as equipment goes...I just wnated to have a dedicated Slide instrument...and since I could get a Harmony so cheap it seems like a good way to go...obiviously the unwound 3rd is cheap...and so far I have about $10 in slides...I'll probably spend more on instructional material than anything else...

Now I just have to find the time to sit down and start slip slidin away..

Cheers,

Blue

[markm]

A couple of good DVDs that I like are the Rory Block Robert Johnson ones and Stephan Grossman Intro to Country Blues Slide.  Rory concentrates on Robert Johnson material but offers alot of great general Delta techniques and attitudes whereas the Grossman material concentrates on specific standard Country Slide songs. 

As far as strings go I would not get hung up on using heavy strings, just make sure you have at least a 14 on top.  High action will help you in the beginning but is not necessary once you become more competant. 

As far as slides go my only advice would be to keep the mass down (not the weight) because muting behind the slide is an integral skill you must learn for competancy.  I find the big ceramic slides to be cumbersome and makes muting all that more difficult.  You might want to look into the Rock Slide http://www.therockslide.com  I have used them for many years and find them to work great for acoustic or resonator type guitars.  They come in 3 sizes for a good fit and have a cut out at the bottom so you are not always pinching you finger.

Good luck with your sliding.

Mark

[Blue in VT]

Thanks for your input Mark...the rockslide seems to be highly regarded as I have had several people suggest I pick one of these up...so I think I will...

a .14 on top eh...hmmm...well I have a set of mediums on now with .13 on top so that will have to do for now...I'll try some heavier strings next time...at least on top. 

BTW...the MJH CD/books you passed along to me many moons ago have been a great help and I have since passed the first volume along to a co worker who is learning to fingerpick with the caveat that he must "pay it forward" to another player in need in the future!

Cheers,

Blue

[markm]

"a .14 on top eh...hmmm...well I have a set of mediums on now with .13 on top so that will have to do for now...I'll try some heavier strings next time...at least on top."

Blue,

Your mediums will work fine, you don't have to get heavier strings.  Just take off the 13 string and replace it with a 14 or even a 15.  I use light strings on some guitars (that I use for slide) and mediums on others but always at least a 14 string on top.  You can buy individual strings at either a music store or on the internet.

Mark