Topic: William Moore's Guitar Style--Queries and Tips

[Pan]

Hi All

Since the lyrics thread seems to be a wrap, thanks to Bruce and Alex, I thought we could take a look at the chord changes here. In the lyrics department you have also the mp3, and Bunker Hills input on the origins of this song:
http://weeniecampbell.com/yabbse/index.php?amp;Itemid=83&topic=2027.0

Ragtime Millionaire by William (Bill) Moore, 1928
Document Records DOCD-5062
"Ragtime Blues Guitar 1927-1930"

This is basically a 12 bar rag with the following quite common "rag" chord changes played in standard tuning in the key of C major:

[| G7 |  G7 | C | C |

| G7 | G7 | C | C |

| F | C | G7 | C |]

However, all the choruses are not 12 bar long, the intro has only 10 bars, and the first sung chorus (after the 1st sung refrain) and the last 2 refrains have an additional 2 bar vamp. Also in the instrumental parts namely, the chord changes have some additions.

The intro is like a whole chorus in structure, but it misses the first 2 bars! If this is intentional by Moore, or due to the recording skills of Paramount, your guess is as good as mine. The chord changes are also a bit more complex including a "ragtime turnaround" with  the II7 - V13 chords:

                      [| C(6) | C(6) |

| G7(9) | G7(9) | C(6) | C(6) |

| F   F6 F7 | C/E | D7 G13 | C (break) |]

Th intro starts with a C chord x3x010, with the A note added to the 3rd string: x(3)x210. The same thing is repeated with the G7, making it a G9: 3xx001 to (3)xx201. I think the bass note is only played in beats one, that's why I use the parenthesis.

In F (xx321x) you have a nice bass run from open D to D# to E for the C/E chord. After picking F in 8th notes play the "F6" chord: xx021x, then raise the open D to D# : xx1(2)(1)x which is technically an "F7" chord, but you're really just passing through to get to the C/E chord: xx2x10. The G note is then played at the 3rd fret 1st string, before returning to the open E. The fingering in this is a little tricky, since you should in my opinion, be able to let the A and C notes ringing while changing the D to D# on the 4th string. You can finger the "F6" 0-3-2 to leave the 1st finger free for the D#. You could also start the F chord with fingers 4-3-2, leaving the 1st finger available when needed, if you like.

After the C/E chord/run you have a D7/F#: xx421x, and the G13/F: xx3030, and finally C (3)3201x with the top 4 strings being syncopated an 8th note before the 1st beat of the next bar. Alternating bass C -G - C and a break finishes the intro.

The following refrain uses the same C(6) G7(9) chords as the intro. The rhythm of these varies considerably throughout the song. The rest of the refrain is more simple than the intro:

[| G7(9) | G7(9) | C(6) | C(6) |

| G7(9) | G7(9) | C(6) | C(6) |

| F      |  C      |  G7  |  C    |]

[| G7  |  C |]

Note that the 1st refrain has a vamp of 2 extra bars before the chorus starts. The  chords are the basic open position chords; xx3211 for F, x32010 for C, and 320031 for G7. Sometimes the melody note in C and G is the G on 3rd fret 1st string, in this case you'll have to leave the 2nd string open in G7.

The choruses are different only in the sense that the A-G note thing is not played, and you have a C7 (x32310) before F:

[| G7 | G7 | C | C |

| G7 | G7 | C | C7 |

| F | C | G7 | C |]

The rest of the song has 12 bar refrains and choruses, until the second to last refrain, where again 2 extra bars are played.

 [| G7 | C |]

What follows is an instrumental chorus with slight differences in chord changes:

[|    G7       |     G7   |     C    |   C   |

|     G7       |    G7    |     C    |   C   |

| F6 Ab7/Gb |   C/G   | D7 G13 |   C  |]

Note the bass runs; G7 to C: G-A-B to C, and C to G7: chromatically to the 5th (D) of G7: C-C#-D.
I think what follows is an F6: 1x021x: then  Ab7/Gb: 2x111x, and C/G: 3x201x. The rest is the same as in the intro.

The last refrain is followed with the 2 bar ending

[| G7 | C F/C C       |].

Please note that it is only in my personal thought process that the 12 bar structure has added 2 bar vamps. This just comes from the fact that I'm more used to think on terms of even number of bars, and might not reflect Moore's thought process at all.

I trust and welcome that you will report any other mistakes as well.

Yours

Pan

(edited to correct the D7/F# chord on the intro: xx421x instead of xx431x)

[gribbon]

Strange,

I got "Ragtime Millionaire" on my mind a couple of days ago (for no reason at all, hadn't listened to it months at least). When I got home I listened to it and even contemplated trying to figure out how to play it. And today there's this thread here and even a lyrics thread.

Weird coincidence... thanks anyway!!!

[mr mando]

As far as I can tell, Pan's analysis is spot on. I'd like to add that I think that the added A notes on the third string are picked with the thumb and the following open G string is picked with the thumb too. ANd rhythmically, the syncopation frequently is a 3+3+2 division of the 8 eights of a bar.

[Pan]

Thanks Mr Mando

3+3+2 is exactly the way the rhythms should be described.

Please note also that I had made a mistake typing the D7/F# chord in the intro, and have now edited to correct.

Pan

[chipmonk doug]

Thanks Pan.  That's more than enough for me to work out a gigging arangement for me to do.
Pan you the Man. 

[GhostRider]

In F (xx321x) you have a nice bass run from open D to D# to E for the C/E chord. After picking F in 8th notes play the "F6" chord: xx021x, then raise the open D to D# : xx1(2)(1)x which is technically an "F7" chord, but you're really just passing through to get to the C/E chord: xx2x10. The G note is then played at the 3rd fret 1st string, before returning to the open E. The fingering in this is a little tricky, since you should in my opinion, be able to let the A and C notes ringing while changing the D to D# on the 4th string. You can finger the "F6" 0-3-2 to leave the 1st finger free for the D#. You could also start the F chord with fingers 4-3-2, leaving the 1st finger available when needed, if you like.

Hey Pan:

I've been fooling around with this. You can finger this bass run more easily by playing the F the standard way and getting the 4 string, 1 fret by a little 2-3 4 string bar with the first finger.

Alex

[Pan]

Hi Alex

You could very well do what you're describing.

You didn't say how you're about to play the D note in all of this. I assume that you'd be using the open 4th strg?

If I understand you correctly, using the 1st finger to fret the D# note after playing the open D requires you to lift your 1st finger to put it in the barr? position. Doesn't this  mean that the C note on the 2nd string (F6 = D - A - C) will no longer ring? If so, theres little point in the barr?ing, you could just press only the 4th strg.

If,on the other hand, you hit the high C in F6 with a sort of "pre-barr?d" 1st finger you are killing the open D one eighth note too short and in fact hammering the D# early. This sort of kills the bassline flow IMO. Or am I missing something?

I'm not saying that you have to have the C note ringing, I just personally like the sound of it, and am in general usually looking for ways to play arpeggios in a most ringing legato way to make the most out of a guitar's sound.

But I guess I'm splitting hairs here, you should go for what works for you and sounds good to you, instead of making things unnecessary difficult. At performance speed this is not a big issue anyway.

Glad to hear you're joining "the Millionaire's Club"!

Cheers

Pan

Edited to add: I just re-listened to the song, and I don't think William Moore makes any special effort about keeping the upper voices of F7 ringing, so you got a point here, Alex.

[GhostRider]

Pan:

Sorry, I guess that I wasn't clear

The F, 1(t)-x-3(r)-2(m)-1(f)-x, then
1(t)-x-0-2(m)-1(f)-x, then
1(t)-x-1(f)-2(m)-1(f)-x, then
C, x-3(r)-2(m)-0-(1f)-0

t=thumb
f=first finger
m=middle (second) finger
r=ring (third) finger

In the third position noted, the first finger moves (quickly) from the second string to barre the second, third and fourth strings at the first fret (the third string is still fretted with the middle finger at the second fret). You sort of slide the first finger into the barre, which keeps the high C note ringing, or it may be deadened a bit as you change hand positions to get to the third position, when you strike it again.

This avoids having to play the initial F chord in an unnatural fashion, which is easier for a klutz like me.

Alex

[Pan]

Hi Alex

I see now what you mean.

It's O.K. if you ask me (?). Not quite what Moore is playing though, which is more like:

   !        !         !          !          !        !          !       !     

!----------------------------!--------0---3---0------------!--
!--------1---------1---------!----1------------------------!--
!-----2---------2------------!-----------------------------!--
!--3--------.0----------1----!--2--------------------------!--
!----------------------------!------------------------------!--
!----------------------------!------------------------------!--

Do you change the rhythm with the bass notes you add?

I Think it's important to play the rhythm as Mr. Mando describes: 3+3+2 (counting eighth notes) in the 1st bar, the "2" being a quarter note  (= 2 eighth notes) D# in this case, if you want to keep the original feeling of this lick intact.

It's funny, this lick is actually played only once during the whole song, but once you figure it out, it sort of gets to be the "signature lick" of the song.
I've noticed that Paul Rishell & Annie Raines, in their wonderful version, start straight out with this lick, as the intro.

A fun song to do, thanks again for your help with the lyrics.

Pan

[Griffis]

Does anyone know how to play this beautiful, haunting song? Is it in another tuning, like DADF#AD?

It's one of the songs I put on a cassette for my (now) wife back when we were courting and we both love it so much.

I admit I haven't tried very hard to learn it, but I'd love some pointers if any of you know it.

Thanks.

[Stuart]

It's in dropped D--if I remember correctly. (edit: I just took out the guitar to see what I could remember.) There are a few simple tricks, but nothing complex. It's not difficult--very similar to "Old Country Rock." I believe that Stefan Grossman did it on "How to Play Blues Guitar."  Check Stefan Wirz' site for covers and other info.

There's a D, A, and E7 and a couple of partials. I'll defer to the many members who have it in their current repertoire and who can provide more specific info re: how to play it closer to the original. My version sounds a bit too conflated to be of any use.

[Prof Scratchy]

It's indeed in dropped D, and you start out fingering only the first string at the fifth fret, before then introducing the string bend on the second string at the sixth fret. Behind that I play a straightforward alternating bass 'dirtied up' a bit so as not to sound too clinical! The tough part is getting the right hand pick right when, beneath the lyric "treats me right and loves me all the time" , you progress to the E7 and A chords. The trick is in getting the 'roll' right in the fingers of the R hand....

[Pan]

I believe the IV or G chord has the 3rd on the bass: G7/B; x-2-0-0-3-1.  The melody notes here include also the top open E-strg, hammered on to the F note on the 1st fret, if I'm not mistaken. The low dopped E-string being now D, or the 5th of the G chord, could also be added to the alternating bass line; from the top of my head I can't remember whether or not Moore does this or not.

Pan

[Chezztone]

I think the trick, to get the sound of the recording, is not dropping the D. Just play it in standard and fool around with the bass notes you can get, you'll get it. Also I think he is playing a 12-string, if you really want to sound like him try one of those. Moore used that same guitar arrangement on several different recordings, including one where he just talks over it.