Topic: Sonny Boy Williamson

[leonard]

Does anyone know if there are other bluesmen who took ,or just by chance had the same name?              Thanks Lenny

[natterjack]

Brownie McGee was billed as "Blind Boy Fuller No. 2" on some of earliest records. I don't think it was his idea and he dropped it pretty soon.

[leonard]

Thanks I didn't know that.

[Pan]

I've just come to learn that there are, at least:

1) a Stovepipe #1, alias Sam Jones,

2) a Daddy Stovepipe, alias Johnny Watson,  http://www.patmissin.com/articles/PWBHG1.html

3) a Sweet Papa Stovepipe.

If someone can shed more light into this,  I would appreciate it .

The various Willie/William Browns cause confusion regularly also.

Cheers

Pan

Edit: and then there's our own Carl, of course, see below 

[daddystovepipe]

Hey Pan,

You forgot me    I'm the only and original Daddy Stovepipe that's still alive and kicking; all those other guys are imposters

[Bunker Hill]

Does anyone know if there are other bluesmen who took ,or just by chance had the same name? 

There was a third Sonny Boy Williamson who recorded for Ram Records in 50s the identity of whom was the subject of much speculation until 1997 when Maggie Mortensen attempted to track him down:

"Unable to find out anything locally about this particular incarnation of the SBW name, I called  Ram Records (in Shreveport, Louisiana) and, in the course of pursuing the info on Williamson, learned a great deal about a very interesting blues recording story.  I spoke with Alton Warwick, co-owner of Ram Records with his wife Maggie Warwick.

Sonny Boy Williamson (real name Jeffrey Williamson, later known also as "Golden Boy") is now deceased, having died at some unknown time within the last ten years or so.  He appeared at the '73 JazzFest (which I believe was the very first Fest), and he recorded a few tracks for Ram Records which are now o.o.p. collector's items.  However, Ace Records of England has released three CDs in a planned series of six blues reissues that include several Ram titles; one of the series is called "Shreveport Stomp" and features a track called "Mailman Mailman" by this artist, who is listed as Sonny "Golden Boy" Williamson.

Mr. Warwick was unable to supply me with any details about the last years of Mr. Williamson's life or exactly how or when he died, but he did know that a man living in Washington D.C. recently discovered through research that he was the son of Williamson (he hadn't previously known his father's identity) and had contacted the Warwicks in his effort to put together biographical details of his father's life."

[dj]

And let's not forget Enoch Williams, who recorded as Sonny Boy Williams in the early 1940s, and as Sunny Williams after the war.  Since his records seem to have been aimed more at the jazz audience, his nickname may not have been an attempt to trade on the fame of John Lee Williamson.  But the names are similar enough to cause confusion.
 

[Bunker Hill]

And let's not forget Enoch Williams, who recorded as Sonny Boy Williams in the early 1940s, and as Sunny Williams after the war.  Since his records seem to have been aimed more at the jazz audience, his nickname may not have been an attempt to trade on the fame of John Lee Williamson.  But the names are similar enough to cause confusion.

Enoch was a pianist though, but if we are going down that route there was a harmonica playiing Sonny Boy Williams who cut a 45 for Duplex in late 50s whilst Bill Ferris recorded a guitarist of that name in Leland, Mississippi in July 1968. 

[Pan]

Hey Pan,

You forgot me    I'm the only and original Daddy Stovepipe that's still alive and kicking; all those other guys are imposters

Ooops! Sorry to have missed you, Carl!

I did some research on the "imposters", here's all music guide's page on Stovepipe#1, a.k.a. Sam Jones: http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=11:wnftxqlgld6e~T1 . Apparently he really played a stovepipe , jug style.

Daddy Stovepipe a.k.a. Johnny Watson has his page here: http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=11:hnftxqwkldae~T1 .

Sweet Papa Stovepipe a.k.a McKinley Peebles seems to be less known, and gets only to be mentioned on the previous artists page.

But I also came across a 4th Stovepipe, a singer called Stovepipe Johnson, whom I've never heard of before. You can hear samples of him singing backed up by pianist Georgia Tom Dorsey here: http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=10:jxfexq8hldte

Now I'm confused!

Pan

[leonard]

Thanks for your inputs on this. It all started at work. My friend was talking about Sonny Boy Williamson. I ask him which one. I don't think he liked it. I assured him I wasn't kidding him.
So I thought I'd put it to you guy's.
By the way Carl is the real Daddystovepipe

[Rivers]

The 'was Will Weldon the same guy as Casey Bill' controversy probably falls into this bucket.

[Bunker Hill]

When I was young and impressionable I would cut from the weekly British pop press blues "oddities" and paste into "scrapbooks". This thread has reminded me of one such which I've attempted to scan from one of these volumes. Don't know how successfuk this will be!

Click image to enlarge.

[leonard]

Thats pretty cool!

[dj]

It's pretty cool but, as Bunker Hill would be the first to tell you, the text of the clipping is not entirely accurate.  Alec "Rice" Miller had been playing around the South for quite a few years, billing himself as "Little Boy Blue", "Harmonica-Blowin' Slim", and other names.  He began broadcasting over radio station KFFA in Helena, Arkansas, in 1941.  Though the facts are lost in the mists of time, most sources agree that it was probably Max Moore of the Interstate Grocery Company, which sponsored Miller's show, who at that time dubbed Miller "Sonny Boy Williamson" in an attempt to cash in on the popularity of John Lee "Sonny Boy" Williamson.  Whether Miller was a willing accomplice or thought he had to agree to whatever a white man said will never be known.

[Bunker Hill]

The irony is DJ that one of the occasional contributors to the paper was Mike Leadbitter who at that point was the research authority on "Rice". In a subsequent issue of the paper I seem to recall a reader's letter pointing this out.

[dj]

The irony is DJ that one of the occasional contributors to the paper was Mike Leadbitter who at that point was the research authority on "Rice".

It seems like whenever I read blues scolarship from 40 or 50 years ago, I'm either amazed at how much was known back then or I'm amazed at how little was known back then.   

Bunker Hill, do you have a date for that clipping?

[Bunker Hill]

Bunker Hill, do you have a date for that clipping?

Just about visible my scrawl in top right corner says "Sounds" March '72.

[mmpresti]

There are also a number of blues and jazz musicians who record under the name Joe Williams, among them Big Joe and "Jackson" Joe Williams.

[Chezztone]

Also there was a Memphis Ma Rainey, much younger than the original Ma Rainey, who was still playing in Memphis (and sometimes touring) with the remaining old-time blues and jug players, into the early '80s. She also was known as Lillie Mae Glover, or Ma Rainey #2. But often just went by "Ma Rainey." So when you meet people who tell you they knew Ma Rainey or used to hear her in Memphis, that's probably the woman they are talking about. Not the original Ma, who died in 1939.

[Bunker Hill]

Also there was a Memphis Ma Rainey, much younger than the original Ma Rainey, who was still playing in Memphis (and sometimes touring) with the remaining old-time blues and jug players, into the early '80s. She also was known as Lillie Mae Glover, or Ma Rainey #2. But often just went by "Ma Rainey." So when you meet people who tell you they knew Ma Rainey or used to hear her in Memphis, that's probably the woman they are talking about. Not the original Ma, who died in 1939.

There is a chapter devoted to her based upon a 1973 interview in McKee & Chisenhall's book "Beale, Black & Blue: Life and Music on Black America?s Main Street" (Louisiana State UP, 1981, p. 142-153)

[eddie]

One strange side issuse of the two Sunny Boys is that Sonny Boy 1 and Big Joe Williams recorded Sunny Boy 2's theme - King Biscuit Stomp, in 1947.
That must of been confusiong !

On two musicians using the same name - there were two Howling Wolfs.
And in England a Howling Wilf, but I think that was a Joke !

[uncle bud]

Also there was a Memphis Ma Rainey, much younger than the original Ma Rainey, who was still playing in Memphis (and sometimes touring) with the remaining old-time blues and jug players, into the early '80s. She also was known as Lillie Mae Glover, or Ma Rainey #2. But often just went by "Ma Rainey." So when you meet people who tell you they knew Ma Rainey or used to hear her in Memphis, that's probably the woman they are talking about. Not the original Ma, who died in 1939.

Interesting. On that History Detectives episode awhile back where they were snorkeling for Paramounts in Grafton, WI, there was a daughter of a Paramount staffer who recalled sitting on Ma Rainey's lap at the studios. Only thing is, as far as I can tell, Ma never recorded in Grafton.

[Rivers]

Only thing is, as far as I can tell, Ma never recorded in Grafton.

Dix, God & Rye confirm this, Chicago and NYC, no Grafton.

[mississippijohnhurt1928]

Well there's Chuck Willis and Chuck Willis, but I'm sure that was an accident. 

[Bunker Hill]

Well there's Chuck Willis and Chuck Willis, but I'm sure that was an accident. 

Should one of those Willis be CHICK the guitarist who just happend to be born in Atlanta too, six years after Chuck, and managed to appear on the recording scene in 1956 the very year that Chuck had his first R&B hit with "It's Too Late"?

[mississippijohnhurt1928]

Well there's Chuck Willis and Chuck Willis, but I'm sure that was an accident. 

Should one of those Willis be CHICK the guitarist who just happend to be born in Atlanta too, six years after Chuck, and managed to appear on the recording scene in 1956 the very year that Chuck had his first R&B hit with "It's Too Late"?

Nope, there are indeed TWO rhythm and blues musicians named Chuck Willis

[mississippijohnhurt1928]

Chuck Willis #1
http://www.amazon.com/Lets-Jump-Tonight-Chuck-Willis/dp/B00000293C/ref=sr_1_6/002-3196637-3854424?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1185377221&sr=1-6

Chuck Willis #2
http://www.amazon.com/Remember-Chuck-Willis-King-Stroll/dp/B00005QD4O/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-3196637-3854424?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1185377221&sr=1-1

[mississippijohnhurt1928]

Chuck Willis #1
http://www.amazon.com/Lets-Jump-Tonight-Chuck-Willis/dp/B00000293C/ref=sr_1_6/002-3196637-3854424?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1185377221&sr=1-6

Chuck Willis #2
http://www.amazon.com/Remember-Chuck-Willis-King-Stroll/dp/B00005QD4O/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-3196637-3854424?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1185377221&sr=1-1

Actually those two are the same people, but there's a modern guitarist named Chuck Willis, too.

[mississippijohnhurt1928]

Actually, I think I'm going crazy, disregard everything I posted previous to this on this thread.

[Bunker Hill]

Speaking of Sonny Boy Williamson, as we haven't in this topic for five years, this link appeared in an email sent to me

http://ourblues.wordpress.com/category/authors/chris-smith/

[jostber]

Speaking of Sonny Boy Williamson, as we haven't in this topic for five years, this link appeared in an email sent to me

http://ourblues.wordpress.com/category/authors/chris-smith/

I couldn't get this link to work. The site opens but never show. It this just on my box?

[dj]

I couldn't get this link to work. The site opens but never show.

It works fine for me.  You have to click on the red Don't Start Me Talkin' to get to the article itself.

Thanks for posting that link, Bunker Hill.  It's always nice to read a well-written article about my first blues hero.

[crawlinkingsnake]

really a cool clipping Bunker Hill. Always interested to know more about any and all the Sonny Boy's. Visited Sonny Boy Williamson II grave near Tutwiller, MS last month. We always stop by when we're in the area.

[oddenda]

According to a thread on BBF, the headstone has been vandalized recently.

pbl

[Bunker Hill]

According to a thread on BBF, the headstone has been vandalized recently.
pbl

Here's a postcard that Chris Smith sent me from there in July 1997. The empty beer cans I like to think were left there by those who had a drink to SBW's memory rather than using it as a trash dump.

(click image to zoom)

[RB]

I don't get to read much of this kind of compendium now (so perhaps I'm not as well qualified to judge) but I very much enjoyed the 1999 Chris Smith article on Rice Miller.

Thanks.

[crawlinkingsnake]

We were at the Sonny Boy II grave site on Sunday April 15th and saw no vandalism.  The grave was clean with only a couple harmonicas placed at the base of the head stone.

Also the graves of his sisters Mary and Julie are near by. Both killed in a house fire, I believe in Helena, AR.