Topic: Country/City, Pre/Post-War Blues--What about it?

[oddenda]

John -

         That term I chose takes in "Americans" and Europeans - remember that much research into jazz and blues (especially in the earlier days) was by denizens of Europe.

pbl

[Johnm]

Peter B.,
In that instance, express yourself more carefully and lose the "W.E." of convenience.  I don't see any need for the quotations around Americans in the case of John Cephas or in my case, either.  We were both born here, and lived/have lived our entire lives here.  Our attitudes and relationship to life and culture were informed by American life, for better or for worse.  If we require quotations around the description of us as Americans, then so-called "Native Americans" require quotes to be described as "American", since they all originally came via the Siberian land bridge.  You are from where you were born and have lived your life, not where your ancestors came from.
Sincerely,
Johnm       

[ScottN]

I have to agree with Johnm, the white European label seems ill suited.  I am of American Indian (Tlingit) and Danish heritage but I don't view music, or much of anything else for that matter, through those filters.  I was born and raised in the US and given the degree to which the blues has influenced virtually all popular music in this country over the past century, I am likely not even consciously aware of its significant influences in how I listen to music.  In fact I would go so far as to say that I would probably analyze classical European music (Bach, Dvorak, etc) through an American / blues perspective.

[ScottN]

I think the city/rural pre/post discussion is still a useful topic in that it lets us more clearly describe the music we all like to discuss.  JohnLeePimp's earlier post is a very well stated differentiation of pre and post war.

I am a fan of both rural acoustic and urban electric blues and most anything in between.  I think one of the lines I use to distinguish "types" of blues is the role the "prominent" guitar plays.  The more it sticks to a harmony type role, the more rural / prewar I would probably describe it as.  The more it ventures into a lead / single note type soloing role (likely due to more structure, supporting instrumentation, etc) the more likely I would be to describe it as an urban or post war style.  I'm sure there are plenty of exceptions but as far as a broad distinction goes, it helps my simple brain categorize the music.  Thanks, Scott.

[TonyGilroy]

I think the point is that our categorisations would have made no sense to those making the music 70+ years ago.

To the extent that they help us though they have some usefulness but maybe don't survive too extensive scrutiny.

[uncle bud]

Racking my brain trying to remember where I was recently reading (or possibly hearing in recorded interview) a black performer using the city/country distinction. Could have been Tilling's Gary Davis book but not sure. It'll come to me one day.

And while these categories may be mostly the construction of white enthusiasts, writers and academics, you can bet that the men and women in the middle of it all could make the distinction between country and city style. Their distinctions may not line up exactly with our notions, but even in their dress alone there is a deliberate sophistication and effort to be uptown. Crank it up another notch for the jazz folks as well. Hell, even Louis Armstrong was dismissed as a country rube upon arrival in the big city (until they heard him play).

[ScottN]

Hi Uncle Bud, not sure if its the same distinction your referring to but in one of Stefan Grossman's videos, Mr. Grossman tells the story of Rev Davis and John Hurt playing together and when asked about MJH's playing later, Rev Davis refers to it as "old fashioned picking" indicating (as you point out) that a distinction was made by those in the middle of it.  Maybe we should adopt the good Reverend's terrminology instead of city / country, etc.  Wonder if anybody out there might have more knowledge of how Rev Davis might have viewed it (Mr O'Muck perhaps).  Thanks, Scott.