Topic: Miller's Breakdown

[Johnm]

Hi all,
Thanks for your participation in the "Too Many Women Blues" puzzler.  Here are the answers:
   * Willie Lane did play the song out of A position in standard tuning as you all had it.  Well done!
   * In the fifth and sixth bars of his first verse, at :19--:23, Willie Lane goes from a D7 in his fifth bar, voiced X-X-4535, and after a brief little pick-up note on the open fourth string, resolves to a little three-string partial F chord, voiced X-X-3-2-1-X, in the sixth bar.  The F leads beautifully to his I chord, A, when he resolves to it in his seventh bar, because he uses the first fret of the second string and the second fret of the third string, both of which he was already fretting in the F chord.  By using the F chord in this context, he gets much the same effect he would have gotten by going from IV major, D, to IV minor, D minor, with the F# to F interior resolution capturing the essence of that sound.  The F chord is a bVI chord relative to the key of A, and is often used as a substitution for a IV minor chord.
   * The little interior fill that Willie Lane plays in the middle of his vocal phrase at :37--:39 is achieved by bending the first and third strings at the 8th fret.  The two notes being bent, then, are Eb on the third string, a bV in the key of A, and C on the first string, a bIII.  It has a bit of a partial diminished seventh chord sound here--try playing the double stop at the fifth fret of the first and third strings and just move it up three frets to the eight fret, bending as you go, and I think you'll catch that sound.  It is sure a grungy sounding double bend and sounds like a million bucks the way Willie Lane does it here.
   * The descending triplet run that Willie Lane plays from 1:23--1:25 lives like so:
      On beat one, a triplet going from a slightly bent fourth fret of the third fret of the second string to the first fret of the second string;
      On beat two, a triplet going from second fret of the third string to the open third string to the second fret of the fourth string;
      On beat three, a triplet going from first fret of the fourth string to the open fourth string and back up to the open third string;
      On beat four, a broken triplet, with the bent third fret of the fifth string holding for the duration of the first two notes of the underlying triplet followed by the open fifth string on the last note of that triplet, resolving up to the second fret of the third string on the downbeat of the next measure.
This is a really cool run and I think the coolest part of it is the triplet he plays on the third beat; the way that he comes back to the open third string for the third note of that triplet arrests the downward motion in a way that acts like a little rhythmic speed bump--ultra cool.
   * In the lyric break, starting at 1:57 he rocks between an E chord, voiced X-X-1-0-0 to an A minor partial, voiced X-X-X-2-1-X, with the E chords falling on the weak beat, four, and the A minors falling on the strong beat, one.
Everyone who participated had at least a couple of the questions right on the money, and among the group, I think the questions were all pretty much answered. 
One sort of unrelated note regarding Willie Lane:  he is sometimes credited with having recorded a tune at Huntsville Prison in Texas for Alan Lomax entitled "Building Up and Down the KC Line", by virtue of that inmate going by the name Little Brother, which Willie Lane evidently also used in a session he backed J. T. Smith on that was never released.  As it happens, Little Brother's recording of "Building Up and Down the KC Line" was one of the first tunes we looked at in this thread, at:  http://weeniecampbell.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=10188.msg87671#msg87671 , and if you return to it and re-listen to it, and then re-listen to Willie Lane's "Too Many Women Blues", I don't see how one could come to any conclusion other than that it was two different people who recorded those two cuts.  Apart from the fact that both performances feature a singer accompanying himself on guitar, they have nothing in common with regard to instrumental or vocal tone, touch on the instrument, sense of time, etc.  The attribution of "Building Up and Down the KC Line" to the Willie Lane who recorded in 1949 is wrong.
Thanks for participating, and I'll post another puzzler soon.
All best,
Johnm   

[Johnm]

Hi all,
I have a new puzzler for those who are interested.  The song is Charlie McCoy's "Motherless and Fatherless Blues".  Here it is:



I say, I'm motherless and I'm fatherless, and I've been misled
I say, I'm motherless and I'm fatherless, and I've been misled
And it have caused rocks to be my pillow, and concrete to be my bed

I say, I looked at my Mother's picture, hanging upside the wall
Looked at my Mother's picture, hanging upside the wall
And I say, every time I see it, the tears begin to fall

I say, if I could see her smilin' face once more
If I could see her smilin' face once more
I say, I would be through with driftin', babe, from door to door

I say, before I lost my Mother, had friends for miles in 'round
Before I lost my Mother, had friends for miles in 'round
I say, since I've lost her, friends can not be found

I used to call my Mother, she used to come to me
Used to call my Mother, she used to come to me
I say, but nowr I'm calling, and she can't answer me

The questions are:
   * What playing position/tuning did Charlie McCoy use to play the song?
   * Where is Charlie McCoy fretting what he plays behind his singing in the first two bars, from :06--:10?
   * Where does Charlie McCoy fret the descending run he plays from :25--:27?
   * Where does Charlie McCoy play the descending run from :53--:54?

Please use only your ears and instruments to come up with your answers, and please don't post any answers before Friday morning, December 5.  Thanks for participating.

All best,
Johnm

[Johnm]

Hi all,
Any takers for the Charlie McCoy puzzler on "Motherless and Fatherless Blues"?  Come one, come all!
All best,
Johnm

[Prof Scratchy]

Oh well, if there are no takers I'll go first again (always brings a smile to bnemerov)! I'll say Vestapol at F. I can't really make out what's going on under the vocal at the start of the song. From 06 to 10  I think it's something like third and second strings at the third fret, descending to the second fret, then a bent note on the fourth string at the third fret, then open fourth string followed by open first. For the phrase at 53 to 54, it sounds like he uses the slide from 11th to 12th fret descending from 1st string, to second string, to third string , to fourth.

[mr mando]

Q: What playing position/tuning did Charlie McCoy use to play the song?
A: Vestapol at F (agree with Prof Scratchy)

Q: Where is Charlie McCoy fretting what he plays behind his singing in the first two bars, from :06--:10?
A: 1st string-10th fret / 2nd string-12th fret (relative to the capo) on beats 2, 4+, 1, 2+, 3, 3+, 4

Q: Where does Charlie McCoy fret the descending run he plays from :25--:27?
A: string/fret: (1st triplet) 1/0-2/3-2/0 (2nd tripet) 3/1-3/0-1+2/0 (broken triplet) 4/3b-1+2+4/0

Q: Where does Charlie McCoy play the descending run from :53--:54?
A: 1st string slide to 7th, back to 5th fret, (fingered?) 3rd fret, 2nd string slide to 5th fret

[Pan]

Agreed with vestapol, but I'm hopeless with slide tunes. 

Cheers

Pan

[harriet]

I'll probably wind up as a candidate for ear cleaning...     
    * What playing position/tuning did Charlie McCoy use to play the song? open g tuning

   * Where is Charlie McCoy fretting what he plays behind his singing in the first two bars, from :06--:10? 3rd-5th fret e and b string
   * Where does Charlie McCoy fret the descending run he plays from :25--:27? 3rd fret g and d string
   * Where does Charlie McCoy play the descending run from :53--:54?5th fret e and 3 fret d
 

[Johnm]

Hi all,
Thanks to all who participated in the "Motherless and Fatherless Blues" puzzler.  Here are the answers:
   * The song was played out of Vestapol tuning.  Sounds that aid in that identification are the fact that Charlie McCoy never plays a lower-pitched note than the open sixth string, which is also the I note, or key center for the song.  Vestapol and cross-note place the I note on the open sixth string, whereas Spanish tuning places its lowest-pitched I note on the fifth string, with a V note being the pitch of the open sixth string.  Also, when he walks into the IV chord, placing its third on the fifth string, he has four strings sounding above it and the I note on top; the analogous position in Spanish tuning would have only three strings above it, and a V note on top.
   * The position Charlie McCoy played from :06--:10 is just as mr mando had it, with the first string fretted at the tenth fret and the second string fretted at the twelfth fret.  That little double stop gives him the seventh of the I chord at the tenth fret of the first string and the fifth of the I chord at the twelfth fret of the second string.  This was kind of a pet position for Charlie McCoy, and he's the only player I've heard who used it in Vestapol.  On his recording of "Last Time Blues", he uses the same position but for his IV chord, fretting the third fret of the first string and the fifth fret of the second string.  That recording is discussed in another thread here which can be located via the tags index.
   * Charlie McCoy start the descending run from :25--:27 on the second beat of the measure.  On that second beat, he strikes the open fifth string with his thumb on the beat, pinching the open first string at the same time, continuing on in the treble with a triplet going to the third fret of the second string and then to the open second string.  On the third beat, he plays another triplet in the treble, pulling off from the first fret of the third string to the open third string and then resolving up to the open first string, while his thumb strikes the open fifth string on beat three and pinches the open fourth string simultaneous with the open first string that it is the last note of the treble triplet.  On beat four, he does a broken triplet pinch of the first and fourth strings, with the first string being picked open twice in rhythmic unison with the thumb in the right hand striking first the bent third fret of the fourth string and then the open fourth string.
   * Charlie McCoy's descending run from :53--:54 is very much as Prof Scratchy had it.  On beat two of the measure, Charlie McCoy does a triplet with his slide, first sliding up into the twelfth fret of the second string, then sliding down to the tenth fret of the second string for the second note of the triplet, getting the third note of the triplet at the twelfth fret of the third string and getting the twelfth fret of the fourth string on beat three.  The notes of the run, then, relative to his key are V-IV-III in the triplet, resolving to I at the twelfth fret of the first string.  The run really is a model of economy in the left hand--you barely have to move the left hand at all.
I never hear Charlie McCoy's name mentioned when people talk about slide players, but he had a beautiful tone and was very accurate with his pitch.  His sound was sort of hyper-controlled; it is very much of a "set piece" sort of sound, and perhaps lacked the excitement generated by less precise players like Fred McDowell who had more powerful and active rhythmic engines.  There's room for all sorts of approaches, though, and there's much to be learned from Charlie McCoy, if only because he didn't really sound like anyone else playing slide.
Thanks to all who participated, and I'll try to find another puzzler to post soon.  Please let me know if anyone has any questions.

All best,
Johnm
     

[Johnm]

Hi all,
I have a new puzzler for you--Scrapper Blackwell's "Goin' Where the Monon Crosses the Yellow Dog", recorded by Art Rosenbaum in Indianapolis in 1961.  This is such assured guitar-playing, and I particularly like Scrapper's singing here, too.  Here is his rendition:



INTRO

Girl, I'm goin' where the Monon crosses the Yellow Dog
Lord, I'm goin' where the Monon crosses the Yellow Dog
Lord, they treat me like a possum, I would be out in the log

Lord, you be good to me, and I'll sure be good to you
Lord, be good to me, and I'll sure be good to you
Girl, that's the kind of way, I caused you want to do

I laid last night a-sleepin', Lord, a-thinkin' to myself
I laid last night a-thinkin', oh my God, a-thinkin' to myself
Lord, if you wanted someone, I guess you wanted someone else

SOLO (Spoken: Oh, I know what's the matter now)

What's the matter with you, child?  You cryin' every day
What's the matter with you, child?  You cryin' every day
Lord, that's all right, I'll hold your head wherever you lay

I cooked your breakfast, I brought it to your little bed
Lord, I cooked your breakfast, Lord, I brought it to your bed
I was a man enough to hold your little old achin' head

SOLO


The questions are:
   * What playing position/tuning did Scrapper use to play the song?
   * Where did he fret and how did he pick the fill from :07--:09?
   * Where did he fret the portion of his turn-around from :31--:33?
   * Where does he fret the chord positions he plays from 1:12--1:23?
   * What are left and right hands doing in the passage from 2:35--2:41 and where does it sit in the pulse?

This is more complicated and virtuosic playing than we sometimes have in the quizzes, so let's allow a little more time before posting answers.  Please don't post any answers before Thursday morning, December 11, and as always, please use only your ears and your instruments to figure out your answers.  Thanks for your participation.

All best,
Johnm
 

[Old Man Ned]

Will start this off as unfortunately have had very little time recently due to a house move but glad to get back involved with these particularly as Scrapper Blackwell is one of my favourites.  Not got around to answering all questions but this is what I've got for starters:
What playing position/tuning did Scrapper use to play the song?
  E, standard tuning
   * Where did he fret and how did he pick the fill from :07--:09?
Is this just on the 3rd (thumb) and 1st (index) strings? something like
0 - 2 - 0 slide into 4 - 0 - 2- 0
x - x - x               x - x - x - x
1 - 2 - 1 slide into 4 - 1 - 2- 1
 
   * Where did he fret the portion of his turn-around from :31--:33?
x
x  also making use of this open b string
4
3
x
4
   * Where does he fret the chord positions he plays from 1:12--1:23?
Not got to this yet
   * What are left and right hands doing in the passage from 2:35--2:41 and where does it sit in the pulse?
Is his left hand playing a long A chord, barred at the 2nd fret and his right hand is using 3 picking fingers to pick out the barred notes, then hitting the barred chord and snapping the high A note at the 5th fret?  A bit too vague, but all I've got at the moment.

[Prof Scratchy]

Ii agree with Old Man Ned that it's standard tuning, key of E, pitched around Fsharp/G.

For the first question: 2 fret third string, plus open first string then bouncing between open first string and first string at second fret twice before sliding position up via third fret to fourth fret, then with open first string sliding back to second fret and hammering on/pulling off first string at second fret. (Much easier to do than to explain)!!

For the turnaround, i think he slides an abbreviated B7 shape up two frets (x434xx) then back down again whilst also playing open first string

For the next question: he takes abbreviated B7 position up the neck to sound E7 at 076700, then slides that position down one fret to Eb7 and back.

For the last part, I can't describe the answer to the question about pulse, but I think he plays an abbreviated A7 chord with A in the bass and hammering to the second string at second fret followed by open first string twice and then first string at third fret bend and repeat a further three times.

[Pan]

Hi all

Thanks for posting this tune, and making us listen more closely to what Scrapper Blackwell does. He sure has a virtuoso picking style, that makes it sometimes hard to figure out what he's exactly doing! I found this to be a difficult tune for sure!

Anyway, here are my thoughts.

The questions are:
   * What playing position/tuning did Scrapper use to play the song?

I'll agree with Old Man Ned and the Professor, for E-position standard tuning.

   

* Where did he fret and how did he pick the fill from :07--:09?

Against the open low E string, double stops on strings 3 & 1 as follows: 1-0, 2-2-and 3-3, the lower 3rd string mentioned first. I have no idea how he picks it! Maybe with the thumb and index? Or he?s using a flatpick and adding the index finger for some kind of hybrid picking?

   

* Where did he fret the portion of his turn-around from :31--:33?

Again really not sure. Could he be moving a partial F-shaped chord down from the 2nd fret, against the high open E-string?  Maybe  X-4-X-3-2-0; to  X-3-X-2-1-0; to an open E chord X-2-2-1-0-0?

   

* Where does he fret the chord positions he plays from 1:12--1:23?

The first chord sounds like an E7 from the 5th fret: 0-X-6-7-5-7, but then he rocks back and forth between an E7 and an A9 chord with open E and B strings ringing out, if I?m not mistaken? 0-X-6-7-0-0, to 0-X-5-6-0-0.

 

* What are left and right hands doing in the passage from 2:35--2:41 and where does it sit in the pulse?

I think the left hand maybe holds a partial A9 chord; X-0-2-0-0-0, then the 2nd fret of the 2nd string is quickly hammered on and off, then the 3rd fret of the 1st string bent a little. It would be easier, if the 4th string fret note is fretted with the index, leaving the index and ring finger free to do the slur and bend, I think. I think the Professor described pretty much the same in different words. I have no idea how he does this with his picking hand, and how to describe the complex syncopated rhythm. I?d have to slow it down, and try to write it down.

Cheers

Pan

[Johnm]

Hi all,
It looks like as many people as were going to respond to the Scrapper Blackwell puzzler have already done so, so I'll post the answers.  Before I get into them, a word about Scrapper's approach in the right hand.  He sounds to me as though he is playing with flesh in the right hand, no nails or picks, and is getting very deep into his strings, which enables him to snap them, but also to play very hard  without them buzzing or bottoming out.  He is particularly adroit with his thumb is and is perfectly comfortable playing single notes or heavy, very controlled brush strokes.  His sound is distinctive because he plays very hard but also very clean, which is an unusual combination--his sound is not "crashy" or uncontained at all.  He has a big beautiful clean sound.
Here are the answers to the "Going Where the Monon Crosses the Yellow Dog" puzzler:
   * He did play the song out of E position in standard tuning, as Old Man Ned, Prof Scratchy and Pan all had it.
   * Here's how he played the passage from :07--:09  He was working with an underlying triplet feel, and in the third bar of his first full pass through the form the fill start with the thumb striking the open sixth string on beat one.  On the + of beat one, Scrapper pinched the open third string with his thumb and the open first string, probably with his index finger.  On beat two, he picked a triplet on the first string going from the second fret of the first string to the open first string back to the second fret of the first string, against which he hit thumb pinches at the second fret of the third string on the first and third notes of the triplet.  On beat three, he pinches the third fret of of the third string against the third fret of the first string, and finishes out the beat with a triplet in the treble, picking the open second string and returning to the third fret of the first string for the last note of the triplet.  On beat four, he plays a triplet in the treble, the first two notes of which are the open first string being hammered to the second fret of the first string and the third note being a return to the open first string.  Against the beat four triplet, the thumb picks the second fret of the third string on beat four and on the third note of the triplet picks a grace note hammer from the open third string to the first fret of the third string.  I think one of the surprising things about this fill is that he starts on the + of beat one picking the open third string rather than the first fret of the third string against the open first string; it is a surprising minor sound, just for an instant.
   * The positions he plays from 1:12 to 1:13, in the eleventh bar of the form, have a beautifully distinctive sound.  On beats two and three of that bar, he slides, I believe, into a partial F#7, X-4-X-3, doing a very controlled brush stroke with his thumb of the fourth through third strings, and muting the fourth string with his fretting hand, so that he can brush right across the fourth string without it sounding.  If you finger the fifth string with your second finger and the third string with your index finger and get a slight curvature on your second finger so that it mutes the fourth string, it works like a charm.  On beat four of that bar, he slides up into the very same position but one fret lower, X-3-X-2, an A minor, once again thumb brushing the fifth through third strings while muting the fourth string.  On the +s of beats 2, 3, and 4, he picks the open first string with his index finger.  On the downbeat of the next measure, he resolves the position down one fret further, with it becoming X-2-X-1, an E chord, thumb brushing it again followed by the open first string on the + of beat 1.  On beat two, he slightly alters the position, X-2-X-2, giving himself a B7 chord, minus the third.
These positions are very close to Pan's solution for the passage, the one difference being the interior muted fourth string in the way Scrapper played it.  The way Scrapper does the muted string with his left hand shows a degree of sophistication in his technique that is really rare in the style, and this is not the only place in the song where he utilizes that technique.
   * For the passage from 1:12--1:23, Scrapper again utilizes the left hand muting that he used for the last question.  He is rocking between an E7 with a B in the bass, 7-X-6-7-0-0 and an E dim 7 with a Bb in the bass, 6-X-5-6-0-0.  So, if you finger an E7 chord like a C7 moved up the neck, using your third finger to fret the sixth string, your second finger to fret the fourth string and your little finger to fret the third string, this move is as easy as pie in the left hand--just get enough curvature on your third finger, which is fretting the sixth string, to make a light incidental contact with the fifth string and mute it.  This move sounds so great, and I had never heard it done before the way Scrapper did it here-wow!  Prof Scratchy pretty much had this move nailed with the only difference being Scrapper's fretting of the sixth string with his third finger rather than the fifth string as Prof Scratchy had it.
   * For the passage from 2:35--2:41, Scrapper's left hand is very much as Prof Scratchy and Pan had it.  I believe Scrapper held the second fret of the fourth string down with his index finger throughout the entire passage, as a sort of fulcrum or pivot point.  He wound then do a snapped hammer to the second fret of the second string with his second finger, going immediately to the open first string and lifting the second finger simultaneously so that the second string would be open again.  He then would do a snapped bend of the first string at the third fret, with his third finger, I think.  That's the left hand.

In the right hand, he does the initial snapped hammer to the second fret of the second string on the + of beat three in the fourth bar of the form, pinching the open fifth string with his thumb at the same time.  On beat four of that measure, he picks the open first string in the treble brushing the open fifth string and second fret of the fourth string with his thumb at the same time. On the + of beat four, he picks the bent third fret of the first string, and re-hits the open fifth string with his thumb.  He sustains the bent third fret of the first string into the downbeat of the fourth bar, hitting a very forceful brush of the open fifth string and second fret of the fourth string and open third and second string with his thumb.  On the middle note of the triplet in that first beat, he does the grace note hammer to the second fret of the second string, and on the third note of the beat one triplet he picks the open first string, followed immediately on beat two by another powerful thumb brush of the fifth through second strings, fretting only the second fret of the fourth string.  He keeps this going through the third beat of the fourth bar, and whew, is it great!  I think this is my favorite passage in the song, and there are so many great ones.  One you get this going well, it's like having your spine in perfect alignment, it feels so good.  And as Prof Scratchy said on one of his answers, it may be harder to describe than it is to do (though both the timing and the right hand articulation are tricky and unusual).
I don't believe any rediscovered blues musician of the '60s and '70s ever played better than Scrapper Blackwell played on this recording.  It is perfectly amazing playing, especially since if what Scrapper told Art Rosenbaum was true, he had barely played for the 25 years prior to the session.  We're very fortunate that he made this recording and the recording on which he backed the singer Brooks Berry before he was murdered.  Kudos to Scrapper for having such an original sound and for being such a convincing proponent of his musical approach.  Incidentally, both Pete Franklin and Shirley Griffith also did really fine playing in Scrapper's style (or perhaps in the "Indianapolis Style").  I believe this CD is still available, originally on Prestige Bluesville, and if you don't have it, find it and get it.
Thanks to Old Man Ned, Prof Scratchy and Pan for participating in this puzzler.  Many of the answers were pretty much right on the money.  I'll try to find and post another puzzler soon.

All best,
Johnm
   

[Pan]

Thanks John!

Cheers

pan

[Prof Scratchy]

Yes, John - thanks once again for this detailed explanation. I agree with everything you say about Scrapper's playing and about how lucky we are to have those later recordings. Scrapper was no slouch on the piano either. Whilst not in the same league as Leroy Carr, he certainly had paid attention to piano blues and played nicely. What a tragedy that he was killed so soon after rediscovery, and at a time when he'd have stood to have a busy career during the revival.