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I went down on Rampart, didn't even mean no harm, when the police walked up, caught me by my arm - Charles Lacy, Rampart Street Part 2

Author Topic: Miller's Breakdown  (Read 244447 times)

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Offline Johnm

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Re: Miller's Breakdown
« Reply #2385 on: September 09, 2022, 07:47:16 AM »
That is really terrific listening, Chris and Blues Vintage! I had thought that the first two lines may have begun with "Good LUCK'S gon' help you, but it's the way you do.", but "looks" makes more sense, as in "beauty is as beauty does". "No decent behavior" seems a stretch, but the sound works with Arthur Pettis's unusual enunciation, and "the hearse will take you too". makes sense of the tagline, as in Bill Broonzy's "You may be beautiful, but you're gonna die someday". I'm going to add those changes to the transcription. Thank you--that was really tough, right up there with Hambone Willie Newbern's "gumbo mud" in "Shelby County Workhouse Blues".

Offline banjochris

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Re: Miller's Breakdown
« Reply #2386 on: September 09, 2022, 10:27:05 AM »
"The hearse" is great, thanks Blues Vintage!
Chris

Offline Slack

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Re: Miller's Breakdown
« Reply #2387 on: September 09, 2022, 10:33:48 AM »
Very impressive!  Go Team Big Ears!!

Offline Forgetful Jones

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Re: Miller's Breakdown
« Reply #2388 on: September 12, 2022, 11:55:30 AM »
"Farewell Daddy Blues" - This song is SO good. Maybe it belongs in the One of a Kind & Great thread? Never heard it before.
*I think the guitarist is playing in standard tuning, A Position.
*I'm not sure what to do with the single string runs between chords, but is the progression something in the neighborhood of: I-V-I-IV-I-VI-II-V-I  ?
*WOW!

"When You Dream of Muddy Water"
*My honest answer is I have no clue, and I don't think my answer is correct. The closest I could get to playing something similar was to capo up and play in standard tuning, Long A position.
*In Long A, I rocked between 4th fret 2nd string and open 1st string
*Thompson never plays a IV chord in this song.
Maybe it's the record, or perhaps my ears are playing tricks on me, but sometimes I think I'm hearings notes down low. I even thought there may be a 2nd guitar or a harmonica in there.

I really like both songs a lot. Excellent choices for the exercise and for listening enjoyment as well. Thank you, Johnm.

Offline MarkC

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Re: Miller's Breakdown
« Reply #2389 on: September 12, 2022, 01:22:14 PM »
Farewell Daddy Blues

Standard Tuning (1/2 step low), playing a 12-string I believe. Maybe flat picked?

I’m hearing the same as Forgetful Jones - In A, first position, same progression- I-V-I-IV-I-VI-II-V-I.

As to John’s interesting question about whether Ma can sing well:

I don’t think this song works very well - what I’m hearing is the guitarist isn’t playing a very bluesy accompaniment. I think he only plays a 7th chord on the II chord (B7). It doesn’t work well with Ma’s singing, so I put the onus on him, not her.

I messed around with Ma’s version of CC Rider awhile back. I spent a little time trying to emulate her singing on my guitar - I was impressed by Ma’s singing around the beat, and some microtonal tweaks she could do.

When You Dream of Muddy Water

So hard to listen to this. I agree with FJ that he leaves out the IV chord.

Sounds to me like open G (1/2 step low). I think the back and forth melody notes are on the 6th and 7th frets of the top string.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2022, 01:29:08 PM by MarkC »

Offline Johnm

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Re: Miller's Breakdown
« Reply #2390 on: September 14, 2022, 11:39:04 AM »
Hi all,
Any other takers for the Ma Rainey and Edward Thompson puzzlers? Come one, come all--answer as few or as many questions as you wish.
All best,
Johnm

Offline banjochris

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Re: Miller's Breakdown
« Reply #2391 on: September 14, 2022, 04:14:05 PM »
I won't comment on "Farewell Daddy" because I've seen someone play it note for note so I didn't have to figure it out myself! Except to say I love this track and yes, Ma Rainey is a hell of a singer. In a way, her vocal is the accompaniment for the guitar on this piece rather than the other way around, and that takes some impressive concentration to keep that going.

Agree with Forgetful Jones on "Muddy Water" – sounds like A capoed up to me. I also agree that there's another instrument involved. It sounds to me like someone playing lap-style slide just sliding into the tonic for both the I and V chords. You can hear it most clearly around 1:07 where it suddenly slides into the third and then the tonic an octave higher than previously. You can hear it more clearly right at the end of the song as well.
Chris

Offline Prof Scratchy

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Re: Miller's Breakdown
« Reply #2392 on: September 15, 2022, 02:42:27 AM »
Like banjochris, I've seen this song performed authentically, so have a good idea of how it was played. Was Ma Rainey a great singer? Yes! By contrast, Edward sounds like a kazoo. Not his fault though!
I'm stuck with the key and playing position, but I'm going to guess he's capoed  round about the fifth fret, playing in G standard. Also, fooling around some more, I find it works well in G6 tuning too, probably my best guess at present.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2022, 05:39:53 AM by Prof Scratchy »

Offline Old Man Ned

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Re: Miller's Breakdown
« Reply #2393 on: September 15, 2022, 01:41:07 PM »
I'm struggling with "When You Dream of Muddy Water". Sounds like the IV chord is absent. The two notes that the melody rocks between sound, to me, like a G and a Gb. You'd think this would give me some indication to the playing position/tuning that Edward Thompson used but I'm as seriously whupped as the recording. I did consider going out and walking down to the crossroads for inspiration but it's raining and turning chilly outside.

Re "Farewell Daddy Blues" and Was Ma Rainey able to sing well? Ma Rainey was able to sing extremely well.

All the best,
Ned

Offline Johnm

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Re: Miller's Breakdown
« Reply #2394 on: September 26, 2022, 10:38:49 AM »
Hi all,
There have been no new responses for several days to the Ma Rainey and Edward Thompson puzzlers so I though I would post the answers.

For Ma Rainey's "Farewell Daddy Blues", the unnamed guitarist:
   * Accompanied her out of A position in standard tuning, as Forgetful Jones had it in the initial response and others agreed
   * The progression of the piece is varied somewhat over the course of the rendition, especially in the eighth bar. For the most part, it parses as follows:
   
    |    I    |   V7   |   I    |    I    |

    |   IV   |   IV   |    I    |   VI   |

    | V/II   |   V7  |    I    |   V7   |

The guitarist sometimes played the second bar as a Vm7, leaving the third string open with the minor third rather than fretting the major third at the first fret. The eighth bar was played variously as four beats of VI, two beats each of I and VI, or four beats of I. I like the way the treatment was varied throughout the rendition. In the ninth bar, I never actually hear a II or II7 chord played--in most verses the guitarist just emphasizes the II note at the second fret of the fifth string, and at other times simply plays a V7 chord.

I particularly like this guitar part, and especially like the way that the guitarist plays across the first four bars of the form, harmonizing with Ma Rainey's vocal in a way that is both very pretty and quite unusual. I also like the ways the guitarist varies the accompaniment over the course of the rendition. I suspect the guitarist would have been happier being given another crack at the coda, but the person in charge of the session was probably happy with Ma's take and so they stopped there.

The question I posed about Ma Rainey's singing was intended to be rhetorical. God, I love her singing. She had a "sadder but wiser" quality that comes across in her singing that I find really affecting.

For Edward Thompson's "When You Dream Of Muddy Water":
   * His playing position was A position in standard tuning, as Forgetful Jones and banjochris had it. The giveaway is the V7 chord, which is an E7 position in standard tuning.
   * In his primary melodic lick, he is rocking back and forth between the fourth fret of the second string, the bV of the A position in which he is playing, and the open first string, the V of of A position. This is just as Forgetful Jones had it.
   * Edward Thompson never plays a IV chord in the course of the song.

I agree with Forgetful Jones and banjochris that Edward Thompson is joined by a seconding guitarist (uncredited in DG&R) who sounds to be playing Hawaiian lap-style slide, focusing mostly on the bass strings . If you can stand listening to Edward Thompson's vocal enough to get some of his lyrics, it turns out that he is singing a version of "Red River Blues", or at least he has two "Red River Blues" verses in the song. I may make it a long-term project to try and figure out all of his lyrics.

Thanks to all who participated in the puzzlers, and I hope that people enjoyed the songs. I'll look for some more to post.

All best,
Johnm

 
     

Offline banjochris

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Re: Miller's Breakdown
« Reply #2395 on: September 26, 2022, 11:47:17 AM »
John – on "Farewell Daddy" I had seen Frankie Basile's great performance of the tune years ago and he plays it out of D position, tuned down on the 12 of course. It sounds so much like the original that that's where I assumed it was. Isn't there a low root note for the IV chord that's fretted – that sounds like a G chord to me, with the little riff going up to the open third string.
Chris


Offline Johnm

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Re: Miller's Breakdown
« Reply #2396 on: September 26, 2022, 12:22:41 PM »
Hi Chris,
I don't think so. The lowest pitched note ever voiced on a IV chord is the third, at the second fret of the sixth string. And in the  "Pig starts to singin'" verse, 1:51--1:53, the guitarist plays a bass run leading directly downward to the root of the IV chord, which he then jumps up an octave to resolve, something he never would have done had the low root of the IV chord been available. Plus the VI chord is definitely voiced as an F#, not as a B, which is what it would be if played out of D position, wherever it was tuned.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2022, 12:55:22 PM by Johnm »

Offline banjochris

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Re: Miller's Breakdown
« Reply #2397 on: September 26, 2022, 01:36:29 PM »
Thanks John – I definitely hadn't played around with it myself on guitar, just listening to the recording. Appreciate the extra analysis!
Chris

Offline Forgetful Jones

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Re: Miller's Breakdown
« Reply #2398 on: September 26, 2022, 06:28:01 PM »
As I mentioned in my reply, I really enjoyed the songs for this last exercise, especially the Ma Rainey song. Frankie plays it so well too, in his own way. Thanks for including that video clip, BanjoChris.

Thanks again for taking the time to put these together, JohnM. This thread has made me a better listener. I was eagerly anticipating the answers to this one.

Cheers!

Offline Johnm

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Re: Miller's Breakdown
« Reply #2399 on: October 02, 2022, 12:11:43 PM »
Hi all,
I have a couple of new puzzlers for those of you who are interested. The first is from Sylvester Cotton, and it is his "Pay Day Blues". Here it is:



INTRO

Baby, you don't care, since I worked in the foundry 'n' all day
Baby, you don't care, since I worked in the foundry 'n' all day
Lord, you don't care, mama, since I bring you home my pay

Lord, you know I work hard, six days every week
Lord, you know I work hard, woman, six days every week
How I did all, I come home, you won't have to fix me nothin' to eat

Now, now, woman, girl, you made me work hard on --
Hey, woman, you made me work hard every day
If I didn't love you, woman, Lord, I stay so far away

I'm gon' build me a house, way out on a farm
I'm gon' build me a house, baby, way out on a farm
So we can be way out there, baby, the city folk won't know why

Now, maybe then, baby, maybe I can get some rest
Hey, hey, woman, maybe I can get some rest
'Cause if I don't get no rest now, woman, it'll cause me my judgement day

You don't want me to die, woman, die away and leave you now
I know you don't want me to die, die away and leave you now
'Cause I'm the only man you can find that will treat you so kind

Well now, bye, little woman, I'm goin' away far from you
Hey, hey, wom', I'm goin' so far away from
Now bye, little woman, Lord, poor me have to go

Edited 12/11 to pick up corrections from Blues Vintage, Johnm
Edited 12/12 to pick up corrections from banjochris, Johnm, Blues Vintage

The questions on "Pay Day Blues" are:
   * What playing position/tuning did Sylvester Cotton use to pay the song?
   * Where, relative to capo placement, did Sylvester Cotton fret the lick he does over the IV chord, from :51--:54 and elsewhere in the song

The second puzzler is from Blind Jim Brewer and it is his "Hair Like A Horse's Mane". Here it is:



INTRO

I love you, baby, and I tell the world I do
I love you, baby, and I tell the world I do
Your ways and actions shows your love is true

Aw, run here, mama, sit on your daddy's knee
Lord, run here, mama, and sit down on your daddy's knee
I got something to tell you, baby, will set you free

SOLO

I don't want no woman, she got hair like drops of rain
I don't want no woman got hair like drops of rain
The woman I love, she got hair like a horse's mane

SOLO (Spoken: Oh yeah! goin' down the road)

I love you, baby, and I want you for myself
I love you, baby, and I want you for myself
I don't want you, woman, lovin' nobody else

Now run here, baby, set on your daddy's knee
Lord, run here, mama, and set down on your daddy's knee
I got something to tell you, baby, will set you free

INTERLUDE

I love you, baby, I want you right here by my side
I love you, woman, I want you by my side
You the only woman keeps me satisfied (Spoken: Yeah, you do, really!)

SOLO (Spoken: now let's move it on down the road now. Oh yeah!)

The questions on "Hair Like A Horse's Mane" are:
   * What playing position/tuning did Jim Brewer use to play the song?
   * Where did Jim Brewer fret what he plays from :14--:16?
   * Where did Jim Brewer fret the chord he plays at :35--:36, and what is that chord?

Please use only your ears and your guitars to arrive at your answers and please don't post any answers before 8:00 AM your time on Wednesday, October 5. Thanks for your participation and I hope that you enjoy the songs.

All best,
Johnm
« Last Edit: December 13, 2022, 09:18:10 AM by Johnm »

 


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