Topic: Tommy Johnson's Guitar Style--Queries and Tips

[GerryC]

Hi everyone! This is my first post on Weenie Campbell, though I recognise some of the names from The Woodshed...Thanks to JohnM for putting me through to this forum.
I've been a great admirer of Tommy Johnson for years and have tried out some of his songs on an unsuspecting public, notably Big Road Blues and Maggie Campbell, the former being the title track of my current CD. However, the TJ song that really presses all my buttons is Cool Drink of Water - great lyrics, fab singing and the guitar part...!! There's the rub. I can play it after a fashion but not well enough to inflict it on an unsuspecting public. I've tried many times to find tab on the web with no luck. The nearest I've come is watching Houston Stackhouse perform it on video; Steve Phillips [who performs it very well] showed me part of it a while back but I need the detail. Anybody out there able to help - I'd be grateful for pretty much anything.

Cheerily

Gerry C

[uncle bud]

Hi Gerry - Welcome to Weenie Campbell. I don't have any tab on this or anything, but I guess the first tricky part is separating out Charlie McCoy's (very cool) 2nd guitar part. Are you trying to do a solo arrangement that incorporates bits of each?

uncle bud

[GerryC]

Hi Uncle Bud! Yes, I'm trying to work up a version that I can play solo and bringing in some of the second guitar part if possible; what I'm trying to get is the spirit of the original and the guitar part is so fundamental to that. At present I start with a slide on the A string 2--7 with ring finger, top E open, bend the G on Bstring at 8, then slide back to A 4 and pinch open B and hammer on B2 with index,play both Es open and then pinch a partial G chord (A2, top E3) and end with two open Es. The other parts around the A and B7 chords are pretty OK but I still have the feeling I'm missing something! Good to hear from you.

Cheerily,

GerryC

[crawley]

Kinda curious,
I've been playing Canned Heat Blues in D, but capo'd at the 5th fret in the A position. I know this is pretty well known song, so I was wondering if any one has a different way of playing it.
Thanks,
Aaron

[Yves]

I began playing this song in E STD tuning after decryting a video of Houston Stackhouse... and it works
But the original Tommy Johnson is played in D STD tuning. You can even play in Drop D but TJ didn't play the 6th D string.... so at the end of the day it's up to you.

Hope that would help

Yves

[Buzz]

Few years back, Paul Rishell taught this tune by TJ at PT blues camp: Drop D Standard, and used his thumb over, Country D on the low E.
Also Big Road Blues: The intro and verse base runs on D (dropped E) and D strings, running up from fret 1or 2 a few frets--I can't recall at this moment---sound cool in that tuning. ..and used his thumb over, Country D on the low E at times, I think.

All best,
Miller.

[crawley]

Thanks guys, I've got it now. It makes more sense that TJ would have played it in the 1st D position. I'm not sure what I was thinking. The capo really sacrificed the my guitars tone too.

Aaron

[Johnm]

Hi all,
I know there has been an ongoing sort of minor question left hanging as to whether Tommy Johnson played "Canned Heat Blues" our of D position, standard tuning, Dropped-D tuning, or E position in standard tuning, as Houston Stackhouse performed it.  I was listening to the most recent Tefteller calendar disc, to "Alcohol And Jake Blues", which bears the same relationship to "Canned Heat Blues" as "Ridin' Horse" does to "Maggie Campbell Blues", which is to say, a musically identical piece with a different title and at least some different lyrics. 

The jury may still be out on "Canned Heat Blues", I suppose, but "Alcohol And Jake Blues" is clearly played out of D position in standard tuning, NOT Dropped-D, or E position in standard tuning.  The very first time Tommy Johnson goes to the IV chord, you can very clearly hear him playing the root of the G chord on the sixth string and the third of the chord on the fifth string.  This is not physically impossible in Dropped-D but is so impractical for the left hand that it may be dismissed as a possibility.  And given Tommy Johnson's predeliction for set piece arrangements, it would seem extremely doubtful that he would play the otherwise identical accompaniment for "Canned Heat Blues" out of a different tuning or position than the one he used for "Alcohol And Jake Blues".  I reckon he played "Canned Heat blues of D position, standard tuning, too.
All best,
Johnm   

[waxwing]

Hey Johnm,

Reading Gayle Dean Wardlow's account of his interviews with Ishmon Bracey regarding the 1929 Paramount recording session in Chasin' That Devil Music, there is a strong possibility that Bracey was playing the guitar backing in order for the drunken Johnson to concentrate on the singing on at least a couple songs. Could Bracey have imitated Johnson's arrangement so well, and, perhaps not bothering to tune to Drop D, didn't mind hitting the G bass? Who knows. You can hear someone coaxing Tommy through the lyrics. Tommy certainly must have been pretty drunk for Bracey to remember the incident, including Art Laibley's anger at several spoiled waxes, a few decades later. At the session Johnson only recorded 6 sides, Bracey 18 (GDW), at a session that was meant to feature Tommy. And Jake and Alcohol Blues was very late in the session and Johnson's last extant recording (B&GR). Certainly all testimony should be taken with a grain of salt, but I'm not sure the tuning on this recording would be strong evidence of anything that Johnson recorded almost two years earlier.

He certainly was a sad soul.

Wax

[blueshome]

If the guitar part is an imitation by Bracey it's a damn good one. In which case you expect him to also have the tuning down as well. Personally I think it sounds like TJ, but we'll never know.

[Johnm]

I agree with Phil, John C.  It sounds like Tommy Johnson's playing all the way to me.  Bracey had a pretty different touch than Tommy, viz. "Woman, Woman", "Trouble Hearted Blues" and the rest.
All best,
Johnm

[uncle bud]

I've been fooling around with some more Tommy Johnson material and think I may figured out something that's bugged me for years. In fact, I thought we had started discussing it somewhere here but can't find it, so may be imagining things. I think Tommy Johnson is using an altered tuning for 3 songs recorded for Paramount in Dec. 1929: "Morning Prayer," "Boogaloosa Woman," and "I Want Someone to Love Me." The tuning is EGDGBE, dropping the 5th string from an A to a G, to play out of C position without fretting the tonic in the bass.

First to sort out a little title confusion:

There are two Paramount tests that were unissued, found in the 90s (?), and released somewhat confusingly as "Untitled Song - take 1 Morning Prayer Blues" and "Untitled Song - take 2 Boogaloosa Woman" on Tommy Johnson DOCD 5001. B&GR has the first title as "Morning Prayer" (no Blues), but listed in the same order as the Document disc. Listening to the lyrics, however, it's clear that the first song/take is Boogaloosa Woman, since it has a verse to that effect, and the second is Morning Prayer, which likewise has a "morning prayer" verse. To add to the confusion, Yazoo titled "Morning Prayer" as "Button Up Shoes" on the Friends of Charlie Patton CD.

Later, another test surfaced, the occasionally maligned waltz "I Want Someone to Love Me", which I think is pretty cool actually, and which was also recorded c. December 1929. The matrix numbers show these songs were likely done at the same session, or at least the same round of sessions for Paramount in December.

I Want Someone To Love Me (L-227-1)  (L-227-2)
I Wonder to Myself (L-228-1)
Slidin' Delta (L229-2)
Lonesome Home Blues (L-230-2)
Morning Prayer (L-231-1)
Bogaloosa Woman L-231-2)

All three of the unissued tests seem to be using this EGDGBE tuning. It would be slightly more helpful to my theory if "I Want Someone to Love Me" had a matrix of 232, i.e. was played in order with Morning Prayer and Boogaloosa Woman, but it's not a dealbreaker IMO.

My reasoning for proposing this tuning:

a) Tommy very rarely hits the tonic in the bass, only occasionally to end the form of these songs. Mostly he is using the third in the bass (E at the 2nd fret of the 4th string) and the fifth (G, in this case at the open 5th string). To get the tonic bass note in this tuning on the rare occasions he does hit it, it is available at the 5th fret of the 5th string, right on top of the other notes of a C chord at the 5th fret.

b) The G bass occurring throughout these songs sounds like a lot like an open string.

c) There is a riff after the V chord in the intro to Boogaloosa Woman and Morning Prayer that is similar to the riff in Charley Patton's Down the Dirt Road Blues, on the top three strings. Johnson then uses the riff in the verses to get from the IV chord to the I chord after the second line of each verse. The most telling difference in his version of the riff is that the G bass rings throughout. It is possible through some finger acrobatics to get this in standard tuning, but the G note really rings, suggesting an open string to me. This riff with the bass is the main reason one would use this tuning, IMO.

While I don't think it has much bearing on the tuning, it's worth noting that in the 3rd verse of "Morning Prayer," Johnson hits a C bass but it's on the IV chord at the 8th fret, using the C-shaped IV chord that again is found in Patton's Down the Dirt Road: 8x7x68. He then goes into a little bit of the "Canned Heat" riff, done easily enough in the partial C formation being used as the home chord.

Johnson uses this 8th-fret IV chord more elaborately in "I Want Someone to Love Me" -- in the last line of the verses as the basis for a really nifty little sequence. He goes up to the 8th-fret chord, drops the whole form down one fret, then walks the form down fret by fret to the C position using a little syncopated riff that alternates between the 6th and 4th strings. It's a pretty nice move.

I don't think there is any real advantage to playing "I Want Someone to Love Me" in the EGDGBE tuning the way there is in the other two songs, but it does allow for that ringing bass with a bit more ease. I think all three tunes have the same "sound".

[Johnm]

Thanks for working through this so thoroughly and posting it, uncle bud.  I find this kind of thing fascinating.  The songs you cite are the least familiar portion of Tommy Johnson's repertoire for me, so I look forward to listening to the songs in question again with the points you've made in mind. 
I'm beginning to think that slight customizations of standard tuning, like Alec Seward's tuning for playing in C, where he raised the B string to C, or Precious Bryant's "Georgia Buck" tuning, where she raises the low E to F, may have been far more common than we present-day players of and listeners to this music have thought up to this point.  Often these minute tweakings of the commonly played tunings end up giving the player either a distinctively different timbre or selection of note choices, or free up the left hand in ways that make the execution of the piece easier, and thus more possible to play expressively.  I look forward to hearing what Tommy Johnson did on the pieces you cite.
All best,
Johnm

[CF]

Andrew I think this came up in the past when I covered 'Morning Prayer/Boogaloosa Woman' on the Back Porch. I could always hear that bass ringing throughout those licks & wondered exactly what I was doing wrong. Sounds like you may have it with that G-tuned 'A' string, I gave it a strum here & it sure works . . . now have to get used to the partial chords.
I'm going to try to sit down with this in the next couple days & get back. You know I love playing me some Tommy Johnson, any excuse really.
I would probably have been trying to figure that out for the rest of my life, good job UB!

[Pan]

Hi Uncle Bud.

Listening to "Boogaloosa Woman" and "Morning Prayer" I think you may just be right! The low G note rings pretty much throughout the song, and has a twangy sound of an possible open string tuned low. The tonic bass note is seldom heard.

On "Morning Prayers"' 3rd chorus the "Canned Heat" type of riff never ends up in the tonic bass note either, as one might expect. After that it sounds to me that instead of the usual V chord Johnson plays here a II9 chord with no third. It sounds to me that this chord then has the 5th or A on bass, before going to a C7/G chord. In this instance the A note would have to be fretted, but it would be very easy to do, and result in a quite logical bass line. In your tuning these chords would be:

D9(om.3):

x-x-0-2-1-0

D9(om.3)/A:

x-2-0-2-1-0

C7/G:

x-0-2-3-1-0

What do you think?


Anyway, I remebered that we briefly discussed this while figuring out Patton and Johnson licks in C on this thread: http://weeniecampbell.com/yabbse/index.php?amp;Itemid=128&topic=2139.0
This thread has our transcriptions of the signature lick in question, and it certainly would be much easier to play with your suggested tuning. Maybe we should edit the Johnson lick tabs, if the verdict is favourable to your theory?


Most unfortunately I don't have "I Want Someone To Love Me", so I can't comment on that, except maybe that changing between your suggested tuning and standard tuning is so easy, that even if the matrix numbers don't exactly follow, I wouldn't consider this a dealbreaker, as you say.

Good work!!

Cheers

Pan

Edited to add: I've got the II9 and I7 chords slightly wrong; see Johnm's post below for the correct chord fingerings.

[Pan]

I think I just remembered something that strongly suggests that Uncle Bud is right.

In Morning Prayer Blues Johnson ends up his choruses with a C chord inversion which has the very high E note on the 12th fret of the 1st string, while the low G note rings out. I vaguely remember that we discussed this earlier, maybe with Cheapfeets great backporch rendition. This would be impossible to play in standard tuning, and I remember being baffled  by this, thinking maybe the worn out 78 where the track was taken is playing tricks with my ears or something.  UBs tuning solves the problem neatly.

The chord in question would be something like:

x-0-(10)-12-x-12, followed by the open G (3rd) and B string notes which give you the time to position your hand for the following C/G chord x-0-2-0-1-0.

Cheers

Pan

Edited to specify which open G string is in question, since we now have two of them! 

[Johnm]

Hi all,
I also believe Andrew to be right in his figuring of Tommy Johnson playing in EGDGBE tuning for "Morning Prayer Blues" and "Boogaloosa Woman" after listening to the two songs several times.  Here are a few of the reasons I think uncle bud has the tuning right, and I'll stick to reasons not cited thus far.
   * The low root of the IV chord, F, is in tune for both of these songs, but when Tommy Johnson comes to the seventh and eighth bars of the form he really leans on that V note under the I chord, C, and it is notably flat.  Were he getting the IV note and the V note on the same string, the notes would either both be in tune or both not be in tune in the same way.  As it is, the IV note is in tune and the V note is flat--conclusion:  they're being played on different strings.
   * At the end of the eighth bar and at the beginning of the ninth bar, under the I chord in the eighth bar and the V chord in the 9th bar, Tommy Johnson does a strong slamming motion with his thumb, getting both the G and E note in the bass behind the I chord and the G and D note in the bass behind the V chord.  This would not be physically possible with these notes on non-adjacent strings, as they are in standard tuning.  In the modified tuning proposed by uncle bud, the move is a piece of cake.
   * I differ slightly with you, Pan, on my hearing of the II9 chord passage in "Morning Prayer Blues".  I think Tommy Johnson is fingering it 5-X-4-5-3-0, and bouncing his thumb from the sixth to the fourth string, and then confusedly taking the position down two frets intact, as though he was going V7 to IV7 in the key of G, instead of resolving the D9 to a G7 and then to C.  I think he lost his harmonic bearings for a second and then righted himself, but because he was working with a closed position he was able to move it down two frets and get away with it.  The move tends to corroborate the proposed tuning rather than disprove it.
Good on you, uncle bud, for having figured this out!
All best,
Johnm
 

[uncle bud]

Thanks gents, I'll take a look at your responses in more detail, but it seems like we're on the same page.

For those who may not have a recording of "I Want Someone to Love Me", you can hear it in this YouTube video. As mentioned above, some people have had less than positive things to say about the song, but it has grown on me to the point where I think it's pretty cool. At the very least, Tommy Johnson does some pretty nifty guitar work on it.

[Pan]

Hi again

Johnm, re-listening to the song, I can hear that you are, of course, correct about the II9 - I7 chord shapes. Thanks for straightening that up. I edited my earlier post accordingly.

Uncle Bud, thank you so much for posting the TJ video. It's fascinating to hear him play this kind of material. He truly is a master of the falsetto vocals thing, no matter what material he is doing. And I found the  guitar work excellent too. After a quick few listenings I think this song is indeed also performed in the tuning you suggest.

Congratulations again for the great detective work on this tuning! Not in a million years would I have thought of just dropping the 5th string!

[CF]

I've been working on this song intermittently since Andrew broke the tuning code. I gave it a try tonight & faded out the real bad parts at the end! 'Boogaloosa Woman' & 'Morning Prayer Blues' are in this TJ tuning but I've played them in standard for years and am having trouble getting at them.

http://www.archive.org/details/IWantSomeoneToLoveMe&reCache=1

[Pan]

Some great falsetto singing there!

Cheers

Pan

[jaycee]

i have the complete recordings? of tommy johnson. on document records. and the track i want someone to love me is certainly not on that cd. the question been, on what cd is the track available on?

[Johnm]

Hi all,
After re-listening, I don't think "I Want Someone To Love Me" is in the Tommy Johnson tuning that "Morning Prayer" and "Boogaloosa Woman" were in, but rather was played out of C in standard tuning.  The reason for this is at the end of the first vocal phrase (:27--:28 on the track), in the fifteenth and sixteenth bars, the song goes to a V chord, G, and you can hear Tommy Johnson do an ascending arpeggio of the G chord, R-3-5-R, that exactly tracks the voicing of a G chord coming up from the sixth string through open third string in standard tuning:  3-2-0-0.  Were the song played out of his customized tuning, the same run would be fingered 3-4-0-0, which is pretty weird.  I think the run was played out of standard tuning because the G chord in standard tuning gives you the run, more or less.
All best,
Johnm

[Stuart]

i have the complete recordings? of tommy johnson on document records and the track i want someone to love me is certainly not on that cd. the question been, on what cd is the track available on?

http://www.yazoorecords.com/2068.htm

http://www.amazon.com/Times-Aint-Like-They-Used/dp/B000QQZBX4

[dj]

It's also on the CD that came with the first Blues Images calendar.  The calendar is still available, and the CD can be purchased separately for $9.95.

http://bluesimages.com/html/product_html/cd_vol_1_new.html

[uncle bud]

Hi all,
After re-listening, I don't think "I Want Someone To Love Me" is in the Tommy Johnson tuning that "Morning Prayer" and "Boogaloosa Woman" were in, but rather was played out of C in standard tuning.  The reason for this is at the end of the first vocal phrase (:27--:28 on the track), in the fifteenth and sixteenth bars, the song goes to a V chord, G, and you can hear Tommy Johnson do an ascending arpeggio of the G chord, R-3-5-R, that exactly tracks the voicing of a G chord coming up from the sixth string through open third string in standard tuning:  3-2-0-0.  Were the song played out of his customized tuning, the same run would be fingered 3-4-0-0, which is pretty weird.  I think the run was played out of standard tuning because the G chord in standard tuning gives you the run, more or less.
All best,
Johnm

One could play the arpeggio by starting on the open 5th string, making it 0 to 4th fret, then open 4th string then open 3rd string as usual. But I think you're right, John, that G bass sounds like it rings throughout the arpeggio.

It's somewhat strange how he avoids the root of the C chord so much in this tune (he does play it a couple times).

[jaycee]

thanks for the info, stuart, and dj.  going to order, times aint like they used to be vol8.

[SteveMcBill]

For those who may be interested; a tab in TablEdit format (.tef) of Tommy Johnson's "Big Road Blues" has been posted this evening on:

http://www.stevemcwilliam.co.uk/guitar/friendstab.htm

Tab for "Bottle Up and Go"  added last night !

Enjoy.

Steve.
http://www.stevemcwilliam.co.uk/guitar/tab.htm
http://www.stevemcwilliam.co.uk/guitar/friendstab.htm
http://www.stevemcwilliam.co.uk/guitar/dadi.htm
http://www.youtube.com/user/SteveMcBill/videos?gl=GB
http://fandalism.com/stevemcbill

[Johnm]

Hi all,
Here is the merged Tommy Johnson guitar style thread.
All best,
Johnm

[CF]

Gents, I have spent soooooo much time on Morning Prayer/Button Up Shoes Blues over the years, probably more time than on any piece of music in my whole life & when Andrew guessed the tuning secret 2 & a half years ago that was such a big step forward for me getting inside Mr Johnson's head. 
I've reread this thread a bunch & have found Andrew & John's input so helpful but it wasn't til recently that I realized Pan had mentioned something that I had been missing:

I think I just remembered something that strongly suggests that Uncle Bud is right.

In Morning Prayer Blues Johnson ends up his choruses with a C chord inversion which has the very high E note on the 12th fret of the 1st string, while the low G note rings out. This would be impossible to play in standard tuning, and I remember being baffled by this, thinking maybe the worn out 78 where the track was taken is playing tricks with my ears or something. UBs tuning solves the problem neatly.

The chord in question would be something like:

x-0-(10)-12-x-12, followed by the open G (3rd) and B string notes which give you the time to position your hand for the following C/G chord x-0-2-0-1-0.

Cheers

Pan

Edited to specify which open G string is in question, since we now have two of them! 

I think Pan is on the right track but I have a slight variation for the 'chord' shape way up at the twelfth fret:

x-0-(10)-0-13-12 (modified to add Pan's suggested C note on 10th fret of the D which I'm hearing quite clearly now)
So that's a C note on the D AND B strings & of course an E note an octave higher on the E string, mimicking the C chord at first position but giving it that distinctive 'chime' sound Tommy gets. I have hitherto been attempting to get that by playing a 'long A' shape at the 5th fret & noticing it wasn't sounding right. The problem for me is that this is a hard chord shape for me to play, especially with the ease & speed Tommy seems to use it on the recording. 

Also, in the third chorus on the word 'none' of the lyric 'I would go with you but your home ain't none of mine . . . ' you hear a pretty distinct Eb note dragged up to E. From there you can hear him slide into the C-shaped F chord (ignoring the 5th string but grabbing the 6th string at the 8th fret) with the G#-A slid notes sounding pretty clearly on the D string.

Tommy tends to play the end of a lot of these forms with this chimey 12th fret riff/chord which puts the song into another category for me, technically . . . It could be played with much more ease without the added C note on the B at the 13th but it doesn't have the same sound . . . any opinions??

[CF]

For Canned Heat in the key & position of D . . .

I don't know what the consensus is nowadays on what Tommy's doing with that D chord but I never liked the sound of a standard D (xx0232). The F# note Tommy slides into to start the song off (on the D string up to the 4th fret) . . . I'm thinking he's staying there making a xx4232 throughout the signature boogie lick (adding the B note on the 4th fret of the G with the pinky) accenting the F# in the chord. The slide from C# to D, focused on the D & G strings (xx4232) sounds right to my ears. Does this make any sense to anyone??

 . . . I should have mentioned the fingering/shape I'm using: flattened first finger on the top 3 strings at the second fret, middle finger getting the D note on the 3rd fret of the B & ring finger getting the F# on the D at the 4th fret

[GrasshopperBlues52499]

Good morning, forum!

Whenever I've listened to Tommy Johnson's best songs, I've really taken notice of his right picking hand and been in awe of it. To my ears, he really swung (so to speak) simple motifs in his own unique and creative way (obviously, due to his seemingly innate rhythm!). I don't claim to be an expert on Tommy Johnson, or blues guitar in general -- I'm young, inexperienced, and my ear is still developing. I would just like to hear any thoughts, opinions, or advice on playing in the vain of one of the baddest guitarists I've ever heard on record. I can play "Big Road Blues," "Canned Heat," and a WIP of "Lonesome Home Blues" (his variant of "Matchbox Blues"); I'd love to get the authentic feel (of course with my own flavor) of these pieces and others which I may learn down-the-road! :-)

[Johnm]

Hi all,
I merged a recent thread about Tommy Johnson's "intricate right hand" into this thread.  No thread names were changed on the posts.
All best,
John

[tommuck]

I know this is a very old thread, but I was working on Big Road Blues and was a little curious about the notes and the tuning. I thought it was played in drop-D tuning, but he is also hitting some open strings on the downbeat, between the low octave strings. Most people I've seen play this leave out the chords completely. The open B string is fairly clear, but the other notes not so much. I tuned the G string up to A and it approximates the sound as close as I can get it, but that seems an odd tuning (DADABE). My version is on my Youtube channel @tommuck6226.

Thanks!
Tom