Topic: Sheik Mystique

[frankie]

For the last day or so, Kim and I have been playing around with "Lonely One In This Town" by the Mississippi Sheiks.? In doing so, we became progressively more interested in how they achieved their sound, which as you probably know, is simple, yet sophisticated.? Here are a few of the nuggets we came up with:

Fiddle - indulge in flat keys.? It's straightforward to play the fiddle part in the key of A for LOITT, ferinstance, but if you listen closely, Lonnie Chatmon consistently plays the major third below the tonic as part of the melody.? The major third note is also clearly an open string.? That puts him (on the fiddle) in the key of B flat.? This sounds pretty scary until you work out exactly how it sits on the fiddle, which is uncannily convenient!? Everything falls effortlessly in first position once you get used to the fingering.? The fiddle is also tuned about a whole step flat, so he's sounds as if he's playing in the key of A flat...? whew!

Guitar - on LOITT, Walter Vinson plays out of the key of B flat.? He's also tuned down about a whole step, to match Lonnie Chatmon's tuning.? He also favors closed chord positions - for instance, for the B flat chord is played at the 6th fret:

e-6-
B-6-
G-7-
D-8-
A-8-
E-6-

For the IV chord, E flat, he uses this partially closed position:

e-6-
B-4-
G-0-
D-5-
A-6-
E-6-

Note that the 3rd string is open and is doubled by the note played on the 5th fret of the D string.? He likes to alternate from the fifth string to the fourth, sixth to the fourth in between his strums.? If you move this shape up two frets, you get the F chord (V) he likes to use:

e-8-
B-6-
G-x-
D-7-
A-8-
E---

Muting the 3rd string is, of course, essential...

There are a couple of typical bass runs - nothing fancy, but executed effortlessly, cleanly and in a timely manner .? The first, leading from the B flat to the E flat chord, starts on B flat note on the eighth fret of the D string, goes down by half steps to A flat, then to the F note on the eighth fret of the A string, then on to the E flat chord.? There's also a neat bass run that he does at the end of the verse in a couple of spots.? It starts on the B flat at the eighth fret of the D string, and the notes are:

B flat, G, F, D

To get this run, he basically stays up at the 6th position in the near vicinity of the tonic chord of the tune and frets the B flat and F notes at the eighth fret.? To get the G and D notes, all he has to do is lift the chord and play the open G and D strings.? In each case, this will be the string above the fretted note:

B flat - 4th string, 8th fret
G - 3rd string, open
F - 5th string, 8th fret
D - 4th string, open

Then on to the B flat chord, now conveniently located right under his fingertips.

There's an interesting and effective use of slides - but that'll have to wait for another update though...

Edited to adjust for paradigm shift to B flat, prompted by John Miller's observations!

[Johnm]

Hi Frank,
You are sure right about the use of flat keys in the Sheiks' music.? On "Tellin' You Bout It", which appeared on the old Bo Carter, Yazoo 1014, the tune is played in Bflat, and before resolving to the IV chord, Eflat, passes through a very nifty IV of IV chord, Aflat, which, now that I think of it, gives the tune a neat mixolydian sound like the great Old-Time song "Train On The Island".? I don't know who is playing guitar on the cut, Walter Vinscon or Bo, but when they go to Eflat, he fingers it in the following novel way:
?x-6-5-0-4-6
so that it ends up like a C shape with the little finger fretting the first string, moved up three frets.? The idea of using an open G string in an Eflat chord kind of wows me.?
Years ago, Steven Calt gave me some transcripts of interviews he did with Walter Vinscon and Sam Chatmon.? In them, Walter claimed Lonnie Chatmon was the best fiddler in Mississippi, both because he could play in any key, but also because Lonnie could read music, which Walter said he (Lonnie, that is) taught himself to do.? Pretty cool if so.? The Sheiks really had a lot going for them.
All best,
Johnm

[frankie]

Based on your observations I just went back and revisited both of these tunes on the guitar.? I didn't see it at first, but playing "Lonely One In This Town" out of B flat on the guitar gives all kinds of subtle advantages, especially for the IV chord you suggested, and in the way a few of the bass lines work.? It sounds to me like he incorporates the open D and G strings into his bass runs much in the same way Gary Davis uses the open A and D strings when he plays in the key of F.? It doesn't immediately jump out at you as a "guitar friendly" key, but in its own way, I think it might be...

Thanks for the tip, John!? I'll have to get in and edit that post tomorrow...

[uncle bud]

It's too late in the evening (morning) for me to comment intelligently on this thread but I love it...? Sheik Mystique indeed. I'm dead jealous you get to play with a fiddler, Frank.

[frankie]

It's still too early for me to comment, too, but I just realized this morning after I woke up that the V chord in "Honey Babe Let The Deal Go Down" also uses the open G string:

e-10-
B-8-
G-0-
D-9-
A-10-
E---

Pretty clever stuff...? it's also got me thinking about Lazy, Lazy River and the key of E flat...? more later!

[frankie]

I'm dead jealous you get to play with a fiddler, Frank.

I guess I get to play with a couple, but my favorite is the one I'm married to!  Sappy, but true...

[uncle bud]

Mine plays flute. Not much country blues potential there. Henry Thomas?

That's it. It's fiddle lessons for the wife for her birthday, whether she likes it or not. 

 

On a more serious note, Walter Vinson really is a fascinating player as an accompanist (plus I love his singing) and I'm glad this thread is started because there's so much to delve into. Will have to explore it more when I return from PT.

[Montgomery]

Do you guys play "That's It" together?  I love that record.

[frankie]

Do you guys play "That's It" together?? I love that record.

Kim and I don't play it, but I wouldn't be surprised if John Miller & Suzy Thompson do it.? I've never heard that one, sadly...

[frankie]

It's fiddle lessons for the wife for her birthday, whether she likes it or not.?

That's the spirit...? if you can find one, grow one!

[frankie]

Do you guys play "That's It" together?? I love that record.

I've never heard that one, sadly...

Oh, yeah...? I'm a dumbass...? not only have I heard it, but I've *played* it with a fiddler I know from Washinton, D.C.? I was looking for it on the Document MS Sheiks discs & didn't find it - because it's on their Walter Vinson CD.? Once I heard it, I recognized it & put the name together with the tune.

Well, duh.? Great tune, though!? That's going on the unrealistic "tunes to learn" list.

[motmot]

frankie,
Thanks for posting such detailed results of your "playing around" with the Sheiks.? I can't wait to get a few hours with a few instruments to try for myself.

I've played along with Sheiks tunes myself, including LOITT, but the one I made the most headway into was "Stop & Listen."? The guitar part struck me as a version of "Lonesome Road Blues," in drop-D tuning but tuned one whole step down, to sound in C.? Most of the fiddle licks sounded to be done mostly out of "closed" positions.

I've spent some more time with "Lazy River," and so far Eflat (played in one of those closed positions) is the only way I've gotten it to sound close to satisfying on the fiddle ...

Cheers,
mot

[frankie]

I've played along with Sheiks tunes myself, including LOITT, but the one I made the most headway into was "Stop & Listen."? The guitar part struck me as a version of "Lonesome Road Blues," in drop-D tuning but tuned one whole step down, to sound in C.? Most of the fiddle licks sounded to be done mostly out of "closed" positions.

That's a nice one - their Church Bells Blues is cool, too, done in the same key.? One that never fails to get goosebumps from Kim and me (especially for the fiddling) is Ramrod Blues, but I haven't sat down with it yet.? I'm trying to avoid setting too many goals, as that usually ends up being counter-productive.

I've spent some more time with "Lazy River," and so far Eflat (played in one of those closed positions) is the only way I've gotten it to sound close to satisfying on the fiddle ...

I totally agree, Mot - I think the guitar is played out of E flat, too.? Although it sounds outlandish & weird, it falls into place rather nicely using C figures up three frets.? Even the circle of fifths part works out well, starting with a G.

One thing about the Sheiks, even though it sounds simple & uncomplicated, it's damned challenging to get it sounding musical & smooth.? They were real professionals!

[uncle bud]

Stop and Listen is similar to Big Road Blues (Tommy Johnson, just so we're clear what we're talking about), no? At least the way I play it!    It is, in fact, a superior tune IMO, with excellent lyrics. I'm trying to place Lonesome Road Blues in my brain and can't.

Church Bells Blues is similar to Walter Vinson's Overtime Blues, isn't it? With more appealing lyrics IMO again.

[frankie]

Yes and yes!