Topic: 12-String Players NOT from Georgia

[dj]

John, you make a good point that the 12-string was by no means universal in Atlanta in the 20s and 30s, one that I have to keep in mind during my idle speculation.  I singled out Curley Weaver because I knew that his mother, Savannah "Dip" Weaver, taught the guitar to Curley and to both the Hicks brothers.  Considering the similarity of technique of Curley's songs in the "No No Blues" mold with those of Barbecue Bob and Charley Lincoln, I wondered if Dip Weaver might have been one of the roots of the Atlanta 12-string connection.  Which made me wonder two other things:  Did Curley Weaver forgo the 12-string because he was so often cast in the role of an accompanist to a 12-string player (first Robert Hicks, then Willie McTell)?  And, considering that Willie McTell's first recordings were done on a 6-string, did he take up the 12-string later due to the influence of Barbecue Bob or, possibly, of Curley Weaver (though certainly there's no similarity between McTell's playing style and that which we can construe to have been taught by dip Weaver)?

All of this is pure speculation with no basis in any fact, but it's the kind of stuff I wonder about when I should be working.   

[Johnm]

Hi all,
I just thought of another 12-string player not from Georgia:  Algia Mae Hinton.
All best,
Johnm

[GhostRider]

Hi:

Another 12 string player (who may be from Georgia?) is Ed Andrews-"Barrel House Blues".

Alex

[dj]

Ed Andrews recorded in Atlanta.  Nothing is known of his biography.  As far as I can find, he wasn't remembered by anyone interviewed by blues researchers in Atlanta in the 1960s and 70s.  He may have been from Atlanta, but on the other hand he may not have been.  He certainly doesn't share anything stylistically with the other Atlanta 12-string players, though he reminds me a bit of Peg Leg Howell and his circle of musicians.

[Bunker Hill]

Ed Andrews recorded in Atlanta.  Nothing is known of his biography.  As far as I can find, he wasn't remembered by anyone interviewed by blues researchers in Atlanta in the 1960s and 70s.  He may have been from Atlanta, but on the other hand he may not have been.  He certainly doesn't share anything stylistically with the other Atlanta 12-string players, though he reminds me a bit of Peg Leg Howell and his circle of musicians.

This historical piece from elswhere on WC may, or may not, be of relevance/intertest
http://weeniecampbell.com/yabbse/index.php?amp;Itemid=100&topic=1869.msg14338;topicseen#msg14338

[dj]

I'd forgotten about that thread.  Dang!  And I thought my Peg Leg Howell observation was original.   

[Johnm]

Hi all,
Another player who recorded some on a 12-string guitar and who was not from Georgia was Eugene Rhodes, originally from Kentucky, who was recorded by Bruce Jackson at the Indiana State Prison in the early '60s.  The recordings were released on the Folk Legacy label, and the record, "Talkin' About My Time" is on the Juke.  Rhodes is really fine singer and player, but I don't know that he was a twelve-string specialist.  He may have been playing a twelve-string guitar simply because that is what Bruce Jackson had for him to play.  His "Blues Leapin' From Texas" is an especially nice cut.
All best,
Johnm

[framus12]

I have to add a couple to the list even if they got started as "folk scare" era players.
 Dave "snaker" Ray who sadly lost a fight with cancer back in 2002, he was an exceptional 12 string player and my personal favorite as a performer. It was only when I got hip to the weeniejuke that I had the opportunity to hear the originals of some tunes I first heard from hearing Mr. Ray perform them. I credit him for getting me intrested in country blues and picking up the guitar again.
The other is Spider John Koerner who is still performing part time in the Twin Cities and elsewhere. He really has his own sound and style.

[Johnm]

Hi all,
Since Frankie had noted early on in this thread that Jesse Fuller was from Georgia and there was a pre-existing Jesse Fuller thread elsewhere in the Main Forum, I took the posts from this thread that began to focus on Jesse Fuller and moved them over to his thread.  Sorry for any confusion this might have caused.
All best,
Johnm

[Rivers]

Todd Cambio makes an interesting point on his Fraulini site http://www.fraulini.com/12string.html (thanks Todd, very enjoyable browsing). 12 string tended to be strong in areas where Italian migrants congregated.

Fascinated by this idea I googled like mad on "Atlanta", "Italian", "immigration" etc but no hard data emerged to explain why Georgia became a nexus for 12 string so I'm still wondering.

Apologies for turning this thread, "12-String Players NOT from Georgia", 180 degrees. But maybe, if Todd is correct, we'd understand where we might go looking for 12 string tendencies.

[fictioneer]

A couple of others not mentioned as far as I can see:

Seth Richard, whom Bastin IDs as being from southern Virginia

Charlie Turner ("Kansas City Dog Walk") -- don't know where he was from but he doesn't sound very Atlanta to me.

unidentified, ?Dallas-based 12-string guitarist who appears on at least one side recorded in big D, 12/1927 (Lillian Glinn's "Brownskin Blues").  The same 3 musicians who backed Glinn may be the ones who are on some Gertrude Perkins tracks from this session but I haven't heard any of those.  DGR identify 2 of the sidemen but not the guitarist, whose style reminded me of Leadbelly's bass work.

Ken Burns' "Jazz" book has photo of an unknown New Orleans area band from c1910 featuring a 12-stringer.

[Bunker Hill]

Charlie Turner ("Kansas City Dog Walk") -- don't know where he was from but he doesn't sound very Atlanta to me.

Tony Russell wrote a two page examination of Charlie Turner and cohorts for Jazz Monthly (February 1969) which was entitled "The Kansas City Dog Walkers." I'll disinter said issue and see if there's anything relevant to report.

[dj]

Some nice catches there, fictioneer.  For those who may be interested, "Kansas City Dog Walk" and the Seth Richard sides are on the Juke. 

If Seth Richard is really the same person who recorded 15 years later as Skoodle-Dum-Doo, he'd abandoned the 12-string for a 6-string by 1943.

And since no new poster should go unwelcomed, and none of the regular greeters are around today, I hope I'm not out of line to say  welcome to Weenie Campbell, fictioneer.

[Bunker Hill]

If Seth Richard is really the same person who recorded 15 years later as Skoodle-Dum-Doo, he'd abandoned the 12-string for a 6-string by 1943.

FWIW when Bastin issued the Skoodle-Dum-Doo & Sheffield coupling on a Flyright compilation, Play My Juke Box (LP4711, 1976), he had this to say:

"Seth Richard probably made a number of sides in late 1943, for Regis and Manor, of which four were issued on scarce 78s. His pseudonym came from his 1928 Columbia recording of Skoodeldum Doo and was used for both his postwar issues. Nothing is known of either Richard or his obscure partner, Sheffield, but from these tracks it seems they were well acquainted with Newark, New Jersey. From their Regis issue of Tampa Blues, they may well have come originally from Florida and followed the regular southeastern migration route to New York."

Without referring to Stefan's Flyright page I think I'm correct in saying Bastin revamped the compilation as a CD in the 1990s - maybe there's newer information in his notes to that.

[dj]

"PLay My Jukebox" was indeed reissued on CD - Flyright CD 45 in 1992.  The notes were by Ray Templeton.  Here's what he had to say:

"When Skoodle-Dum-Doo & Sheffield recorded their four sides in 1943 (possibly in Newark, New Jersey), indigenous black music was about to enter one of its most significant periods of change and development.  Skoodle-Dum-Doo appears to have been a pseudonym for Seth Richard, who recorded for Columbia under his own name in 1928, and these rough, vital, ragtime-inflected blues records could easily have been recorded at a much earlier date.  Despite the fact that "West Kinney" is a cover of Blind Lemon Jefferson's "One Dime Blues", and that some of the guitar playing (as Paul Oliver has observed) shows Lonnie Johnson's influence, these performances recognisably belong to a tradition that flourished in the Southeastern states in the decade or more before the war."