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Author Topic: Miller's Breakdown  (Read 244471 times)

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Offline Old Man Ned

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Re: Miller's Breakdown
« Reply #1860 on: May 18, 2018, 12:08:07 PM »
For  "Lonesome Moon Blues" I'm hearing the playing position/tuning as A standard and Ranie Burnette's signature lick  from :07--:10 as, something like:
---------0-3-5-3---------------
3slide5----------5-3-3slide1--
--------------------------------2
all played on the first 3 strings.

True, I don't believe Ranie Burnette ever frets a string lower in pitch than the third string in the course of his rendition. The lowest I'm hearing him go is the A at the 2nd fret of the 3rd string.

Doesn't Ranie Burnette's playing and vocals have a wonderfully relaxed feel?

Offline banjochris

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Re: Miller's Breakdown
« Reply #1861 on: May 18, 2018, 04:01:43 PM »
It sounds to me like he's in Spanish, not A, mostly because of the 0-0-0-0-3-5 chord he plays (although he's not playing all the strings). In A that would be 0-0-2-2-5-5 and it sounds open, not closed, to me. Also he does a pull-off from the first fret of the second string to the open second that would be possible but a little awkward in A. Finally, his bend on the third string sounds to me like it resolves to an open, not a fretted string.

Other than the open 5th string, I don't hear anything below the 3rd string either. Burnette sounds like Lil' Son Jackson was a big influence.
Chris

Offline blueshome

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Re: Miller's Breakdown
« Reply #1862 on: May 18, 2018, 11:00:51 PM »
I hear it as Spanish.
He does play the open 5th string later in the piece.

Offline Prof Scratchy

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Re: Miller's Breakdown
« Reply #1863 on: May 19, 2018, 09:06:20 AM »
The questions on "Lonesome Moon Blues" are:
   * What playing position/tuning did Ranie Burnette use to play the song? - Spanish capoed at second fret.
   * Where did Ranie Burnette fret the signature lick he plays from :07--:10? - 2nd str 3; 1st str 3 4 5 0; 3rd str 3b
   * True or false:  Ranie Burnette never frets a string lower in pitch than the third string in the course of his rendition. - I hear the open fifth string at 2.29

Offline Old Man Ned

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Re: Miller's Breakdown
« Reply #1864 on: May 20, 2018, 05:45:27 AM »
Yeah, after reading Banjo Chris's post and listening again it is sounding like he's in Spanish.  I heard that A bass note he hits on the open 5th string and just went off down the wrong road.  Really must learn to contain myself, exercise a bit of restraint, and explore all the possibilities :-)
 

Offline harriet

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Re: Miller's Breakdown
« Reply #1865 on: May 22, 2018, 07:35:31 AM »
I hear spanish.
I hear an open bass 5 throughout.
I heard the run but used transcribe so I will wait to see if its anywhere near what he was playing, if I heard correctly I would like to consider John Lee Hooker's Hobo Blues or Crawling King Snake as a possible influence, both Fred Mcdowell and RL Burnside had versions and used similar notes, that's what I based my study of it on.

Offline WillMo

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Re: Miller's Breakdown
« Reply #1866 on: May 22, 2018, 09:50:02 PM »
Spanish capoed first fret to G#

Ranie was a bit more mentor to RL and learning from Fred.   North Mississippi Hill Country goodness.

I heard a bass G# / 5th string like clock work all throughout but maybe that my thumb.

Good vid from Sunday on playing in this position from Kenny Brown taught Reed Turchi here, 'Skinny Woman':   


Offline Johnm

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Re: Miller's Breakdown
« Reply #1867 on: May 23, 2018, 09:52:03 AM »
Hi all,
The Ranie Burnette puzzler has been up for a while now, so I will post the answers.  Here goes:

For Ranie Burnette's "Lonesome Moon Blues":
   * His playing position was Spanish tuning
   * He played his signature lick from :07--:10 as follows:  The lick starts on beat two of the measure.  On beat two , he plays a triplet, going from a slide into the third fret of the second string followed by the unison open first string, resolving then to the third fret of the first string.  On beat three, he plays another triplet, dividing the middle eighth note of the triplet into two sixteenth notes like so--The first note of the triplet is the fifth fret of the first string, for the middle of the triplet he pulls off from the third fret of the first string to the open first string, and for the third note of the triplet, he plays the first fret of the second string.  For beat four, he hits the third fret of the third string on beat four and the open third string on the + of beat four.
   * It is true that Ranie Burnette never frets a string lower than the third string in the course of his rendition.  He picks the open fifth string, but he does not fret it.  His left hand is a model of economy on this song, for in the course of the song, he only ever frets the third string at the third fret, the second string at the first and third frets, and the first string at the third, fifth and eighth frets. 

Because of this very pared back left hand part, I think "Lonesome Moon Blues" is a great candidate for figuring out by ear--the whole thing.  I would recommend not slowing it down, but being prepared to listen to a given passage as many times as is necessary to figure it out.  My issue with slowing things down to learn them is that I believe it trains your ear to be slow.  When you consider that the universe of choices in the left hand for this song is so small, it shouldn't take too long to figure any portion of the song out.  I would also recommend trying to hear melodic lines and riffs based on where they live in the scale.  When you begin to hear things that way, you can hear runs in any position or tuning, and you just apply the fingering appropriate to that position or tuning.  Taking the signature lick discussed in question two and describing it this way, you end up with the following scalar description of the run:  The beat two triplet goes from a slide into V to a unison V open first string and then up to a bVII in the scale.  On beat three, it goes from a high I note followed by a pull-off from bVII to V followed by a IV note o the second string.  On beat four, it goes from a bIII note on the third string to a low I note on the open third string. 

Once you have that scalar formula for the run, find it and play it in other positions or tunings, play it in E position, standard tuning, A position, standard tuning, Vestapol, etc.  Once you've played the same run in several different keys, positions or tunings you will thoroughly have the sound of it in your head and will find it much easier to locate in a new position or tuning.

Thanks to all who participated in the puzzler; it is your participation that really makes this thread work.  I hope folks enjoyed the song, and it would be great if someone figured out "Lonesome Moon Blues" and posted it on the Back Porch.  I will look for another puzzler to post soon.
All best,
Johnm 
« Last Edit: May 23, 2018, 03:27:20 PM by Johnm »

Offline harriet

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Re: Miller's Breakdown
« Reply #1868 on: May 23, 2018, 10:48:00 AM »
With due respect, nobody got the run right so I don't think its that easy, he probably switches that up throughout the song and tailors each verse and fills to the song as well, adjusting rhythm, making up for what one might say is lack of instrumental complexity, so as a participant in the thread it's beyond my capabilities at this point to work out the music. The music is vocal driven IMHO, and needs both the voice and guitar. Just my two cents, and again with due respect for the other participants who might feel up to the task and are interested.

Harriet

Offline Johnm

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Re: Miller's Breakdown
« Reply #1869 on: May 23, 2018, 03:47:34 PM »
Hi all,
When I suggested doing the whole thing, Harriet, I was including the vocal in the suggestion.  While the piece is not without its subtleties, it is technically one of the easier pieces to play that you will encounter in the style.  There are no chords or chord changes, the thumb in the picking hand never hits anything other than the open fifth string, you never have to fret more than one note at a time and the universe of possible note choices is quite small. 
For anyone willing to try figuring it out, I would suggest being very empirical--get in tune with Ranie Burnette in Spanish tuning, and figure out what he plays from :00--:06.  Once you've got that, go on to the next phrase.  Continue through the piece that way, a phrase at a time.  Notice when he repeats a phrase or lick intact.  Listen for when he drops the bass out under his singing.  Remember that every "mistake" or phrase you try that doesn't end up being what he played is just enriching your context, filling out your knowledge of why the right notes sound right and the wrong ones don't sound right.
I think of transcribing songs as basically engaging in wars of attrition--I know I'll get there eventually, and I know it may take a while, but that all I have to do is stick with it until I've got it.  And you can stop at any point and say, "I've got enough of this.", or "close enough is close enough".  The current vogue for exactitude in transcription is just that, a stylistic choice.  None of our musical heroes and heroines copied their models exactly.  The presumption was that the musical materials they were starting from  would be re-expressed in accordance with their own way of hearing things, playing time, etc.
All best,
Johnm
 

Offline Johnm

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Re: Miller's Breakdown
« Reply #1870 on: May 29, 2018, 04:13:47 PM »
Hi all,
I have a new puzzler for those of you who are interested.  It is Honeyboy Edwards' "Army Blues", recorded by Alan Lomax for the Library of Congress in 1942.  On it, Honeyboy is joined by a harmonica player.  Here is the track:



The questions on "Army Blues" are:
   * What playing position/tuning did Honeyboy Edwards use to play the song?
   * Where is Honeyboy fretting the bend he does in the first verse immediately following his opening line, "When I first started to bumming"?
   * Where does Honeyboy fret the ascending run he plays into his IV chord from 1:02--1:03?

Please use only your ears and guitars to arrive at your answers, and please don't post any answers before 8:00 AM your time on Thursday, May 31.  Thanks for your participation and I hope you enjoy "Army Blues".
All best,
Johnm

Offline blueshome

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Re: Miller's Breakdown
« Reply #1871 on: May 30, 2018, 04:03:14 AM »
I believe it?s Honeyboy playing rack harp. Anyway, I?ll get my mind and ears back to the puzzle.

Offline Johnm

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Re: Miller's Breakdown
« Reply #1872 on: May 30, 2018, 06:25:36 AM »
Thanks for the clarification, Phil.  I had read that but forgot it.
All best,
Johnm

Offline Prof Scratchy

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Re: Miller's Breakdown
« Reply #1873 on: June 01, 2018, 09:04:00 AM »
The questions on "Army Blues" are:

   * What playing position/tuning did Honeyboy Edwards use to play the song? - G standard capoed up


   * Where is Honeyboy fretting the bend he does in the first verse immediately following his opening line, "When I first started to bumming"? - 1str 6fr

   * Where does Honeyboy fret the ascending run he plays into his IV chord from 1:02--1:03? -4str 0 1 2; 3str 0

Offline Old Man Ned

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Re: Miller's Breakdown
« Reply #1874 on: June 02, 2018, 09:05:55 AM »
Agree with the Prof on Army Blues. Sounds capo'ed at the 5th fret assuming he's not tuned low.

 


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