Author Topic: Tampa Red's Guitar Style--Queries and Tips (Read 15037 times)

si · « **on:** October 29, 2005, 08:39:37 AM »

Working on "Can't Get That Stuff No More" by Tampa Red.
Not sure of chords towards end of each verse.
Playing in key of E:
E / / / E / / / E / / / E7 / / /
A / / / A / / / E / / / E / / /
B / / / B / / / B / / / E / / /
or last 4 bars could be
B / / / B / / / B / E / E / / /
or maybe
B / / / C# / B / C7 / B7 / E / / /
Your opinions will be welcome.

MTJ3 · « **Reply #1 on:** October 29, 2005, 01:27:20 PM »

I think that you are keying (sorry--bad pun) in on the bass strings. I hear the harmonic structure of the song (and the related "Dead Cats On The Line") during the verses as noted below; it flattens out harmonically a bit during the instrumental breaks.

E-E-E-E/E-E-E-E/E-E-E-E/E7-E7-E7-E7/
A-A-A-A/A-A-A-A/E-E-E-E/E-E-E-E/
B7-B7-B7-B7/A- A-B7-B7/A-A-B7-B7/E-E-E-E

In the 4th measure, TR plays a D (5th string 3rd fret) which leads to the C# (5th string 2nd fret) in the bass in the next measure (the third of the A chord); this is an uncommon voicing in standard tuning, but open E readily lends itself to it. The C# in the bass in the 10th and 11th measures, again, is the third of the A chord. In those measures, TR shifts between B7 and A by alternating between the open 5th string and 5th string fretted at the 2nd fret. Beginning in the 11th measure, TR walks the bass down C#-C# (5th string 3rd fret), B (5th string open), Gb/G (6th string 3rd fret, slightly bent), E (6th string open). You can reharmonize it as you did, which makes it a lot more interesting and makes it your own, but you don?t need to in order to play it as TR did.

si · « **Reply #2 on:** October 29, 2005, 03:24:01 PM »

Thanks MTJ3 for your excellent analysis. That explains why I was hearing different chords at the same time. It is so good to find a 12-bar with a different ending, am going to try this at a jam session.

GerryC · « **Reply #3 on:** October 31, 2005, 10:17:02 AM »

Thanks for that turnaround. It's really cool and a great improvement on what I've been playing.

'Stuff' is also a great song for making up extra verses to tease/mock/insult your buddies at jams or open mics, eg

"(Name) plays a mean guitar
But with a face like that he'll never be a star."

"Listen to (name) on the old banjo,
We untuned his strings and he don't even know."

"(Name)'s playing that National fast as he can,
Pity it sounds like an old tin can."

"(Name), go easy on that big ol' bass,
Them strings could twang you out into space."

Etc. You get the idea...

Cheerily,

Gerry C

GhostRider · « **Reply #4 on:** October 31, 2005, 04:50:35 PM »

Gerry:

And I like the idea. The guys and gals at PT are in big trouble at the next Participant's Concert.

Alex

LB · « **Reply #5 on:** December 14, 2005, 10:48:07 PM »

This is just an introduction to the tuning, the chords and the first 8 bars. I posted this on the APM Forum but I really thought it would be great to post it over here. I know many of you are beyond this stage of playing but I made this hoping to draw more people into Tampa Red. Below is my post and in a way it's a thanks for all the nice help I have recieved here.

Tampa Red was one of the greats. He played one of the oldest National Tricones made and had a very sophisticated playing style for his time with wonderful slide and hand and palm muting. Neil Harpe of StellaGuitars.com drew the amazing art shown above. I have been going through a reinvention of my own playing for several years and part of my reconstruction is learning songs from my home state of Georgia. This song is part of the 1930s recordings captured on Folkways RBF15 which showcases the Atlanta blues greats of the 1920/30s. This song is in open D tuning and can be played on any guitar but a tricone national really does nail the same tone he has.

Tune to D A D F# A D . Which means tuning the first and sixth string down one whole step, the third string half step down, second string whole step down. I've provided a video, slow MP3, fast MP3 and a photo of my home made tablature. If people enjoy this and master these first 8 bars I might work up more of it in following posts or in future lessons. I am actually working out all these notes one step ahead of you and this is the song I am working on at this moment. I thought I would share. Keep in mind that in this sample of him I only captured one go around in this song. He actually speeds up to a very hopped up dance speed as the song goes on. I really suggest buying this CD RBF15 from Folkways to hear the magic of the whole tune. Mostly it's his timing and touch that makes this song so great. The actual licks are not that hard. Doing them right is hard. He also slips in some very subtle stumbling bass notes that are reminiscent of Blind Blake but not as pronounced. As I study the finer details of his playing I find more tiny pieces of magic throughout. I never in a million years thought I could play this stuff but once you begin creating a few sweat beads on your forehead it starts getting easier and making perfect sense. Why I have been avoiding open D and G tunings for so long? Well I really wish I'd started earlier and I hope you will NOW

Play Normal Speed sample of Tampa Red

Play SLOWED DOWN Sample of Tampa Red

Now these tabs are not perfect but all the notes are there. The hammer on with two fingers on the 2 and 5 string with the ring and middle finger are hard to hear until you come up to speed in the first 4 bars. I break it down and repeat it many many times.

If enough people work on this and it has a lot of interaction we might take it to the next stage. Otherwise this is just a nice intro to Tampa Red

===============
PART 2 addition 16-DEC-05

This should give everyone some slide to work on. This is the first main riff he comes too. I explain it well in the video.

Tampa playing just this lick slowed down in MP3

Click to play explanation and demo of this slide lick.

===============
ADDED PART 3 - 19-DEC-2005

This is one of the coolest licks in the tune. I think it's pure genius. Almost a Blind Blake type of stumble with a twist.

SteveMcBill · « **Reply #6 on:** December 14, 2005, 11:18:32 PM »

Wahoo Little Bro,

Really enjoyed that - Tampa Red really rocks and this is an excellent intro !!

More please !!

Steve

Slack · « **Reply #7 on:** December 15, 2005, 07:14:26 AM »

Great intro (and pic) of Tampa Red. I'm not sure how many of us are beyond this level -- but figuring out all the variations that Tampa does is a challenge for most anyone!

We're going to open up a general lesson board soon and I hope you post more of these.

Thanks LB.

uncle bud · « **Reply #8 on:** December 15, 2005, 12:25:10 PM »

Great lesson LittleBrother. Paul Rishell has taught this tune when he's been out teaching at PT. I've worked on it on and off for several years, never really getting it completely down. Nice sound comin' off that National tricone of yours, too. Just out of curiosity, when you're doing the 3, 2, 0 on the high E string over the IV chord, you're fretting it with the free 3rd finger. Do you think Tampa ever got these notes with the slide? I don't have a recording handy right now to check, but have wondered in the past and tried both ways. Getting them with the slide is certainly a trickier stretch.

LB · « **Reply #9 on:** December 15, 2005, 03:12:14 PM »

Hi Uncle Bud,

Thanks for the encouragement. I'll have to watch for Paul Rishell. You know that has crossed my mind some notes could be played with slide. My skills are not good enough to try yet but I am keeping those ideas on the table. I find when I keep revisiting things they eventually seem possible. Back to the wood shed

LB

Parlor Picker · « **Reply #10 on:** December 16, 2005, 03:42:01 AM »

Many years ago, the great British blues picker, Steve Phillips put forward the theory that Tampa Red had a short slide on his ring finger (like a wedding ring, but considerably longer) which allowed him to still bend that finger and fret with it. That way he could fret with all four fingers (and the thumb over the top I guess if he wanted) and still play slide notes on the top string with the diminutive appendage. Steve reckoned it was the only way to get all the right notes - with either fingers or slide.

It's an interesting concept, but don't ask me to justify it, as I'm no slide player myself.

blueshome · « **Reply #11 on:** December 16, 2005, 08:39:45 AM »

Great lesson - don't put yourself down!

Re: Tampa playing with the slide on the ring finger - there is a photo around with a short glass slide on his pinky.

It's not too hard to get those notes on the 1st string in the IV of this song with the slide, and in trying to play much of his stuff I've never found slide on this finger a handicap, in fact it makes some of the picked runs easier for me. I did notice that Paul Rishell uses his ring finger for them.

However, I know plenty of players who use the slide on the ring finger pretty well, although I have noticed that they all seem to have large hands - anyone else observed this?

Certainly in many other songs he is fretting cleanly with slide as well as hammering on and pulling off with it.

Phil

uncle bud · « **Reply #12 on:** December 16, 2005, 09:02:36 AM »

Yup, that photo's attached here. A little hard to see (click on the photo, it gets bigger) but it's there as blueshome notes.

I gave it a go last night and actually had more trouble fretting with the finger than the slide! And yes, good point, he certainly does hammer-ons and pull-offs with it. He is not a flashy slide player, just has astonishing control.

Re. slide on the ring finger. I think I hear a vein throbbing in Steve James' head...

GerryC · « **Reply #13 on:** December 16, 2005, 09:37:39 AM »

Here's a photo of the aforementioned Steve Phillips, who generally uses a small glass slide on his ring finger - you can just make it out on this pic. Steve did a great version of BWD on his first [vinyl] album The Best Of Steve Phillips, which is currently unavailable; however, Steve told me a while back that his first two albums (Steel Rail Blues is the second) would eventually be re-issued on CD. Meanwhile, he has revisited BWD on his latest album, Solo. This is terrific and is available via www.stevephillipsmusic.com

Cheerily,

Gerry C

pbyhre · « **Reply #14 on:** December 16, 2005, 10:02:32 AM »

Hey LittleBrother,
Thanks for all the effort you put into this! The tab, audio, and video files are a HUGE help to wannabe guitar players like me. If you go to the trouble of doing this for more of the song, I can guarantee you that you'll have at least one more interested student.

Thanks again,
Pete Byhre

Slack · « **Reply #15 on:** December 16, 2005, 12:29:54 PM »

Welcome to WeenieCampbell Pete!

LB · « **Reply #16 on:** December 16, 2005, 02:12:04 PM »

Welcome Pete to a fantastic site! Thanks!

HERE IS PART 2

===============
PART 2 addition 16-DEC-05

This should give everyone some slide to work on. This is the first main riff he comes too. I explain it well in the video.

Tampa playing just this lick slowed down in MP3

Click to play explanation and demo of this slide lick.

LB · « **Reply #17 on:** December 19, 2005, 11:18:45 AM »

I might slow down on this one depending on how many people are getting any use out of it. Seems like about 4-5 people on two forums are working on it. I will let this one rest for a while and I hope it gets more people pulled in. If you do take part PLEASE give feedback so I know how your doing. Thanks and good luck.

===============
ADDED PART 3 - 19-DEC-2005

This is one of the coolest licks in the tune. I think it's pure genius. Almost a Blind Blake type of stumble with a twist.

uncle bud · « **Reply #18 on:** December 20, 2005, 08:46:16 AM »

Hi LittleBrother,

Responses might be slow this time of year. Everyone's likely trying to deal with Xmas preparations, and lunatics who irrationally pile on the work because they feel the mere existence of the end of the year creates some kind of deadline that requires they finish all the projects they've been neglecting for months, which means artificially induced panic and stress for everyone they come in contact with (oops, slipped into Dilbert mode)....

I have a question about part 3 but I don't have my guitar upstairs with me at the moment and want to check something first.

LB · « **Reply #19 on:** December 20, 2005, 09:05:49 AM »

LOL, I know what you mean. I need to put down my guitar and do some shopping myself

I'd love to talk more about part 3 and help. I'll watch for your post. Thx

uncle bud · « **Reply #20 on:** December 20, 2005, 02:34:13 PM »

Hi LB -

OK, I broke out the resonator to check and refresh my memory on this great lick in part 3. I wanted to check how I had played it in the past (I am really rusty on this tune), and I play the 3 to 4 riff (slide or hammer-on) that you have on the 4th string as a Blind Blake-like thumbstroke going from the 3rd fret of the 4th string to the open 3rd string. I guess it could go either way, but I find this thumbstroke more comfortable, especially since the technique is already going on in the overall riff. I don't have the recording with me right now to compare. I'll try the slide into the 4th fret some more.

I agree it's a very cool riff.

LB · « **Reply #21 on:** December 20, 2005, 03:13:30 PM »

Hmm interesting. I see what you mean. Sounds like two equally good ways. I hear too much of a tone change when I move to that 3rd string for that last note but I see your point and you could very well be more accurate. One benefit I can see to the way I decoded that move. You can already have your thumb on the way to the 6th string since it doesn't have to hang out to hit that one extra note that also brings your thumb farther away from the 6th string. So from what I can determine my way is more work on the fret hand and less on the thumb. And your way is simpler on the fret hand and slightly trickier on the thumb. This is the kinda stuff I love to hear. Thanks for the feedback. Love it!

LB · « **Reply #22 on:** December 23, 2005, 10:10:21 PM »

I tried to sum up a general sequence of the chords I am using. It may not be 100% perfect but it's a good start. If you can strum through these patterns you might be well on the way to having all the hand positions and sequences.

0-0-0-0-0-0 The open D chord
0-2-0-0-2-0 the hammering on
0-0-0-0-0-0 back and forth

0-1-0-0-0-0 sliding into the next IV chord
0-2-0-1-0-0 this is the G four chord
0-2-0-1-0-3 Stretching a finger to hit this note on the 1st string
0-2-0-1-0-2 Walking that finger down to fret 2 on string 1
0-2-0-1-0-0 back to G chord , repeat these couple times on the IV section
0-0-0-0-0-0 Back to open D

0-0-2-1-0-0 This is the other chord I hear the V chord.
0-0-2-1-2-0 Add this note hit on fret 2 string 2
0-0-2-1-0-0 back to V chord again
0-0-3-2-0-3 Then slide the thing upward 1 fret and move to 1st string
0-0-3-2-0-0 I like to hit the open note on string one some here
0-0-2-1-0-2 Slide that whole mess down one fret

0-0-0-0-0-0 Open D and turnaround coming
0-3-0-0-0-0
0-2-0-0-0-0 Walking notes down on fifth string
0-1-0-0-0-0
0-0-0-0-0-0 Back to the open D
0-0-0-2-1-0 Strumming the 5 for the turnaround

Now back into the tune again repeat strumming through this sequence and you'll have a good head start on the song

alonysios · « **Reply #23 on:** March 21, 2006, 06:36:54 AM »

hello,i have been working on tampa's version of this out of the key of F and have had some problems with a couple of the changes.i was curious if anyone knows the chords for it,thankx,chad

Pan · « **Reply #24 on:** March 22, 2006, 03:48:02 AM »

Hi Alonysious (or Chad?)

Welcome to Weenie Campbell.

I don't have the song in question in my record collection. A quick listening to the version on the Juke (The complete Bluebird recordings 1934-36, vol. 2) reveals this to be some kind of variation of the "rag" changes in the key of C. The chords included are C, E7, A7, D7, G7, F and Ab7, if I'm correct. If you wish to play in F you should transpose up a perfect 4th.

If you need more specific info, may I suggest that you could include an mp3 to the post? This seems to be the best way to get a "lyrics/chords" thread started, because everybody can then take part.

Also, I believe this is a topic more suited to the "licks" department, rather than "lyrics", so you might expect the moderators to move it there, if they see fit.

Good luck with the song!

Yours

Pan

37 Gibson · « **Reply #25 on:** March 23, 2006, 03:50:27 AM »

I worked out a version of this song based on Paul Geremia's arrangement. I think Paul's recording (on Gamblin' Woman Blues) is in G, and the chords I came up with generally correspond to the progression posted by Pan, except in the key of G...

alonysios · « **Reply #26 on:** March 23, 2006, 06:59:57 PM »

hello all,thankx pan and 37 gibson.yeah it seems like the basic rag thing very similar to his others like that.i wish i had a mp3 to post.i have it on the bluebird recordings on lp and don't have aux. on my turntable.i'll keep messing with it.i know i'll get it anyway sooner or later.take care,chad

cakewalk · « **Reply #27 on:** February 27, 2007, 05:07:17 PM »

Greetings

I was listening to Tampa Red the other day and started jamming along with him
(he never seems to mind) and discovered that he was playing in b flat.
My questin is since he seemed to be in his usual Vestapol open tuning on his trusty tricone, where was his capo or how could he tune down that low? From D or E he would have to be a long way from home. Any ideas?

Brian

uncle bud · « **Reply #28 on:** February 27, 2007, 06:48:24 PM »

Hi Brian,

What was the tune?

UB

cakewalk · « **Reply #29 on:** February 28, 2007, 08:45:39 AM »

uncle Bud

I was playing to the entire CD so I can't be 100% certain, but I believe it was
LOVE HER WITH A FEELING.

The only thing I can think is that he was in Spanish A with the capo I or in Standard.

Hey BTW, does your moniker come from a Tampa tune?

Brian

Michael Kuehn · « **Reply #30 on:** October 28, 2007, 09:34:08 AM »

I'm trying to work out this song from Vol 2 of the Document series, track 5, the instrumental version. Though I've listened to Tampa Red's work before, I've never tackled one of his songs. This is one of my favorites and appears to be a pretty standard I-IV-V -- but is he playing it in Vestapol open D in this version? Sort of sounds like it to me. Anyone have any insights into this tune that might help?

And now that I listen a bit more, and try playing some of it, it appears I could get a rendition to work playing out of C position, capoed at the 2nd fret. I'm confused.

Thanks.

Mike

uncle bud · « **Reply #31 on:** October 28, 2007, 10:02:36 AM »

Hi Mike -

I'd say this is definitely in Vestapol tuning. A real nice one...

blueshome · « **Reply #32 on:** March 04, 2011, 03:06:44 PM »

A short lesson I made for a Tampa Red fan in Canada FWIW.

Richard · « **Reply #33 on:** March 05, 2011, 11:33:22 AM »

I didn't know TR was left handed, I'd better have a look.

LB · « **Reply #34 on:** March 05, 2011, 02:56:10 PM »

Phil, nice job, thanks for posting that. Nice work with getting the tampa tone too. Boy that's right on. Wish I could just be there playing backing rhythm with you. Or washboard.

sustaireblues · « **Reply #35 on:** March 06, 2011, 06:20:31 AM »

Hey Phil, that was great!
Gives me a lot of material to work on. And I like the way it is presented, clear enough to pick up without a lot of wasted time.

Thanks!

Joe

Richard · « **Reply #36 on:** March 06, 2011, 06:27:22 AM »

Now I've had a chance to see it, great job. Maybe we could all post a little similar something on our favourite artist?

LeftyStrat · « **Reply #37 on:** April 02, 2011, 02:09:26 PM »

Been on somewhat of a Tampa Red jag lately, myself..and knowing now that he played a lot in Open D helps figuring out ways to arrange his tunes so I can play them (as I doubt seriously I could ever get my coordination together to do it exactly).

Its got me wondering though, what other tunings did he use? I ask because, unless my ears are deceiving me, not everything was open D. Probably an obvious statement, but my ear isn't the sharpest out there

blueshome · « **Reply #38 on:** April 02, 2011, 04:59:52 PM »

Almost all (95%+) of Tampa's output was in Vesterpol tuning , open D intervals. He tuned between Db and G on the recordings I've heard, clearly capoing to get the higher registers.

Johnm · « **Reply #39 on:** October 31, 2012, 03:26:32 PM »

Hi all,
Here is the merged Tampa Red guitar style thread.
All best,
Johnm

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Author Topic: Tampa Red's Guitar Style--Queries and Tips (Read 15037 times)

si

si

alonysios

37 Gibson

alonysios